Neural Agonizer - HAMMOND ENCLOSURE!!!??

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Neural Agonizer - HAMMOND ENCLOSURE!!!??

Post by scozbor » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:46 pm

Who's with me?!

Say YAAAARRRGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by scozbor on Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by pre55ure » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:48 pm

Yarrggghhhhhh!!!!!

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Post by swordsect » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:50 pm

Yarrggghhh

I still have two pcb's from Tellun, would love to be able to mount
behind a panel.

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Post by clarke68 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:08 pm

I've had Neural Agonizer PCBs in my backlog for years...I'd love to do a panel for it. However, the size (of one of the PCBs, anyway) is quite Euro-unfriendly...around 5.5x6 inches. I was kinda resolved to make this an outboard unit, with one exposed spring tank ala the Ekdahl Moisturizer.

But if people want a Euro NA, I can make it happen. Seems like the two most obvious options are:

1.) Very wide, very deep module
2.) Mount the large PCB somewhere else, like on the inside of your synth case

Let me know if you want my help, and if so, what "large PCB strategy" you prefer (or propose another one).
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Post by sduck » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:10 pm

I really like that there's been an a huge increase in euro DIY. Just a few years ago there was virtually none. However, this is one of those projects that makes you go "why euro?". It's a monster project in 5U. It just barely fits into my biggest cabinet. And that's without the springs. It makes me wonder if the amount of effort required to make it work in euro (and yes, it can be done) wouldn't be better spent building a cabinet with a 15v psu for a larger format and using that for troublesome diy projects like this. One of the big reasons I started out with MOTM format and have stuck with it is that you can shoehorn anything into without a lot of trouble. And that's another beauty of DIY - you don't have to be tied down to one format - invent your own as you go!

Having had that little rant, I suspect that clarke will now come up with a really elegant panel and pcb mounting solution for this, just to show how easily and perfectly it can be done. And clarke's not the only game in town, right? Designing panels is one of the fun parts of diy! Consider this a challenge!
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Post by NV » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:32 pm

I have a couple Neural Agonizer PCBs I've been meaning to build behind a euro panel. The big stopping force in my case isn't so much the panel but finding the ideal springs. I'd definitely go for a panel, but I think a group buy for a set of springs tailor fitted to the NA would be a huge benefit if things start heading that direction.

The last group buy some 4 years ago was from Accutronics and resulted in some hefty springs that were a great fit for the NA's purposes. I spent some time a couple years ago hunting down springs for the NA and found a pathetic 2 possible solutions that were both less than ideal - if we had enough interest we may be able to hit up Accutronics/Belton and get some custom springs direct from the manufacturer, although the tough part in that would be getting everyone to agree on the specs.

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Post by swordsect » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:40 pm

clarke68 wrote:I've had Neural Agonizer PCBs in my backlog for years...I'd love to do a panel for it. However, the size (of one of the PCBs, anyway) is quite Euro-unfriendly...around 5.5x6 inches. I was kinda resolved to make this an outboard unit, with one exposed spring tank ala the Ekdahl Moisturizer.
Clarke - if you devised a way to make the Neural outboard enclosure I would be down for sure. I agree with you having it behind a euro panel would be huge or very deep. Hence why i have never turned these boards i've had sitting around for years into a euro panel. ALTHOUGH, at this point i wouldn't be againt the idea of euro but would prefer an outboard enclosure.

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Post by Luka » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:55 pm

Agree with sduck - i even pulled it from my 5u cabinet to set it aside to try make it standalone

Nv - im up for belton groupbuy - even though i organised the last accutronics buy i ended up with a bad tank :/ need another or maybe belton version

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Post by L-1 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:57 pm

I made my standalone 1U 19" + tanks. No chance to place these boards in euro.

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Post by scozbor » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:02 pm

yeah i have an old 3U stand alone rack enclosure ready for this, but was kinda hoping for something easier :lol:

How about a 19" Rack panel - you can then do whatever you want with it?




YAAARRGGHHH

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Post by sduck » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:03 pm

I'd actually be in for another group buy of tanks, if such a thing could be made possible. I have another set of boards that need some love. I used the same super deluxe ones that the last group buy used, and while they're really nice, they're almost too nice, if you know what I mean. Really deep and lush sounding. Can't get crazy with them. I'd like shorter and brighter sounding - so I can really hear the springs if you push them.
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Post by clarke68 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:17 pm

swordsect wrote:Clarke - if you devised a way to make the Neural outboard enclosure I would be down for sure.
I was thinking of an enclosure like this:

Image

...the 9.75" reverb tanks would fit, one one top (for "playing") and the other on the inside. I was thinking I'd just hand-drill the front panel & label it with a sharpie, but Hammond will do custom drilling & printing if we have enough interest (and I have no idea what their minimum quantities would be).

Edit: YAAARRGGHHH!!!
Last edited by clarke68 on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by nangu » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:17 pm

I'm in for at least one panel. Outboard, euro, whatever.

I have two tanks that are supposed to work for this, but I might get in on a group buy anyway if they're different than whatever I already have.

[edit] I didn't see that last post before hitting send on this. The Hammond boxes look great! I'd probably end up buying 3 and getting more PCBs. My friends are totally going to want in on this..
Last edited by nangu on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by swordsect » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:18 pm

clarke68 wrote:
swordsect wrote:Clarke - if you devised a way to make the Neural outboard enclosure I would be down for sure.
I was thinking of an enclosure like this:

Image

...the 9.75" reverb tanks would fit, one one top (for "playing") and the other on the inside. I was thinking I'd just hand-drill the front panel & label it with a sharpie, but Hammond will do custom drilling & printing if we have enough interest (and I have no idea what their minimum quantities would be).
Seriously, count me in - i'd prob do two, since I still have a couple of boards.

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Post by scozbor » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:31 pm

that hammond enclosure looks like the goods! :woah:

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Post by delayed » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:21 am

sduck wrote:I'd actually be in for another group buy of tanks, if such a thing could be made possible.
I would like to see this happen also.




So you don't like the 1BC2D1B?

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 am

I might be interested in the ore-drilled/printed Hammond case depending on price.

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:34 am

pre

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Post by clarke68 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:53 am

Good news from Hammond!

The minimum order on custom drilled, silk-screened enclosures is 25, which seems like a do-able number. I need to send artwork in order to get a quote, and it'll be a bit before I can get to that, but I'll keep you posted.

For starters, tho, the metal-sided enclosures retail for around $30, the one with walnut sides retails for around $60. I assume they'll charge something for the custom work, exactly how much I won't know until I get a quote.

Image

In the mean time, let me know what you guys think would work best for a layout. I could do all of the i/o and controls on the sloping panel, or we could move some of the i/o to the back or even the narrow strip on the front. We'll need a hole for power (on the back, I assume). I really like the look of the walnut-sided enclosure, which means the sides would be off limits, but if enough people think otherwise we could do input on the right and output on the left, just like a stompbox.
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Post by clarke68 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:15 am

Reverb tanks:

The closest I found is this, equivalent to an Accutronics 8FB3C1B. It's not perfect...the input/output impedance are a match, but the NA manual recommends D for the 5th digit (insulated i/o connectors) as opposed to this one which has input connectors that are insulated on input but grounded on output.

Also, this one is designed to be mounted with the open side down, and I'd prefer the open side up...I'm thinking one could be exposed on the top of the enclosure, and the other mounted right below it on the inside, using the same mounting holes.

I know you used to be able to order custom tanks directly from Accutronics, so if someone is taking that on I'd recommend 8FB3D1A.
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Post by marcn » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:00 am

I'm currently workin on getting one finished although taking it very slow in order to try and minimize costs.
Almost certain I will mount it in a 3U rack for standalone operation.
That way I can make the panel with both 3.5mm and 6.5mm jacks on certain ins/outs so it will work with either my eurorack stuff or other instruments without having to use cable adapters which I assume everyone hates.

I went with these springs although haven't tested the sound:
TAD-springs

They will fit nicely into the rack, sort of like the Orban 111B spring reverb and praying there wont be too much noise in there.

For the springs, they are a tad expensive over at Tube Amp Doctor but certainly a good alternative in Europe.(just noticed price went up from 29E to 33E after I bought some 2 weeks ago :hihi: ).
I doubt that TAD would be the company to contact for a groupbuy but hey, give it a try if there's enough interest, might get lucky.

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Post by monstrinho » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:21 am

clarke68 wrote:Good news from Hammond!

The minimum order on custom drilled, silk-screened enclosures is 25, which seems like a do-able number. I need to send artwork in order to get a quote, and it'll be a bit before I can get to that, but I'll keep you posted.

For starters, tho, the metal-sided enclosures retail for around $30, the one with walnut sides retails for around $60. I assume they'll charge something for the custom work, exactly how much I won't know until I get a quote.

Image

In the mean time, let me know what you guys think would work best for a layout. I could do all of the i/o and controls on the sloping panel, or we could move some of the i/o to the back or even the narrow strip on the front. We'll need a hole for power (on the back, I assume). I really like the look of the walnut-sided enclosure, which means the sides would be off limits, but if enough people think otherwise we could do input on the right and output on the left, just like a stompbox.

I'd vote to keep the I/O on the back. In fact, if there were room for a small D-Sub daughterboard to mult all of the I/O to, I'd like to see a Euro I/O panel with a D-Sub connection to the NA. That would be really convenient, especially since it could be adapted to any other format as well.

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Post by clarke68 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:42 pm

monstrinho wrote:if there were room for a small D-Sub daughterboard to mult all of the I/O to, I'd like to see a Euro I/O panel with a D-Sub connection to the NA. That would be really convenient, especially since it could be adapted to any other format as well.
That's a great idea! There's definitely room...this box is huge compared to anything in Euro. I might also want a set of "override" inputs, maybe on the front (and maybe with 1/4" jacks), just in case I want to use it with other equipment.

Question about power supply. Does anyone know if there are any issues running the NA on 12v? If not, can we bring power in on the D-Sub as well? If it requires 15v for maximum awesomeness, then it will need a dedicated power supply, maybe the MFOS Wall Wart Power Supply?
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Post by monstrinho » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:06 pm

clarke68 wrote:
monstrinho wrote:if there were room for a small D-Sub daughterboard to mult all of the I/O to, I'd like to see a Euro I/O panel with a D-Sub connection to the NA. That would be really convenient, especially since it could be adapted to any other format as well.
That's a great idea! There's definitely room...this box is huge compared to anything in Euro. I might also want a set of "override" inputs, maybe on the front (and maybe with 1/4" jacks), just in case I want to use it with other equipment.
It's definitely physically possible to run the power on a D-Sub, but I'm not certain that it wouldn't cause some sort of crosstalk with the other signals. D-Sub cables are generally pretty robust and designed not to suffer from crosstalk with audio signals. When you start throwing audio, CV and power in the same bundle?? Dunno...I'm sure there must be some engineers around here who could say whether it would work or not. The one disadvantage of drawing power from the D-Sub would be that you could not use the Neural Agonizer as a standalone device away from the modular. And yeah, 1/4"" I/O on the front is a really good addition. Maybe the most useful connections could be repeated on the front? I could imagine wanting to patch a Koma pedal or a Moogerfooger into the feedback path, for example...
clarke68 wrote:Question about power supply. Does anyone know if there are any issues running the NA on 12v? If not, can we bring power in on the D-Sub as well? If it requires 15v for maximum awesomeness, then it will need a dedicated power supply, maybe the MFOS Wall Wart Power Supply?
That looks like it might be a really good solution!

It also just occurred to me that if this is going into a pre-drilled Hammond box, someone might be able to come up with a front panel daughterboard for the pots. If the jacks and D-Sub on the back were also on a daughterboard, the would eliminate the panel wiring altogether!! :goo:
The downside is that everybody would have to agree on exactly what pots and jacks to use, but it would really streamline the building process. I wish I had the expertise to design it myself. Unfortunately I don't, but I'll definitely applaud from the sidelines if someone else decides to do it!!

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Post by mikecameron » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:23 pm

I've wanted to build one of these for so long. Really hope this happens! Love the idea of the standalone hammond box.

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