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DIY expansion for mono lancet
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY Goto page 1, 2  Next [all]
Author DIY expansion for mono lancet
catchpenny
Hi there! considering getting a mono lancet and have also for a while been looking for a starter DIY project of some sort. I came upon this thread:

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50318&highlight=mono +lancet

I don't know anything (yet) about electronics but am very willing to learn.

So my question is does the above thread mean you could build your own modular dock for the monolancet which has more functionality than the one vermona offers and if so would it be a project suitable for a beginner?

bear in mind that i am a student with access to a equipment and clever people with technical expertise.

thanks!

Oh and I'm new around here and it seems like an awesome resource, so hello there!
corex
Why didn't you just bump that thread? zombie

catchpenny wrote:
So my question is does the above thread mean you could build your own modular dock for the monolancet which has more functionality than the one vermona offers and if so would it be a project suitable for a beginner?


Yeah I think that's exactly what it means. I've been thinking one day to build an extension to the dock, as it seems the circuitry is fairly simple. I think the layout is mostly a matter of unity-gain voltage followers, jacks, and pots. Unity gain is just a guess though -- I haven't measured the signals from the Lancet. Also, the "Pimp my A-119" thread had me thinking that the fact that Vermona used TL064 here could mean a DIY dock with TL074 instead could have better performance; lower noise and less distortion.
nanners
catchpenny
Apologies, I thought it might be better suited to the DIY forum.

Thanks for the info and links, will read up on unity gain and try to get my head round that thread.
corex
catchpenny wrote:
Apologies, I thought it might be better suited to the DIY forum.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense too.

I have a million projects going but an improved dock would add a lot to my system. I'm just a hobbyist, but perhaps if you get a Lancet we could collaborate on a design.
catchpenny
sounds good to me, I'm going this weekend to try out some other monosynths (MFB, Dark Energy) but unfortunately the store doesn't stock the lancet.

But from what I've read/heard + this extra flexibility/interest building my own dock I think i'm pretty sold.
catchpenny
like i say I know nothing yet so this might be a silly question but would it be possible to take the EG out signal and make it trigger a separate pulse for ADSR like on the doepfer A143 2 module?

might be getting ahead of my self.
corex
catchpenny wrote:
like i say I know nothing yet so this might be a silly question but would it be possible to take the EG out signal and make it trigger a separate pulse for ADSR like on the doepfer A143 2 module?

might be getting ahead of my self.

I think that would be more difficult. I think you would need to modify the Lancet's EG to accomplish that -- I don't think it can be derived from the EG signal alone.

Perhaps you could use a comparator on the EG signal to cause secondary triggers sort of like that.
catchpenny
ok so i finally going to be picking up a monolancet this weekend.

Can anyone tell me if when i finishing building a dock for it i should expect to get a constant signal from the different shaped LFO outs? I'm assuming i'll get a constant signal from the to VCOs.

You'll tell from my questions that I don;t yet know what i'm doing, but i am working on it!
catchpenny
ok so I'm bumping this topic as I'm finally actually going to start bread boarding next week. Still very much an experiment for me and i expect to get it wrong at first. Currently getting my components together.

from the photo corex posted i figure I need TL064CNs (or as you mentioned, TL074s), pots, jacks and a bunch of resistors (yet to work out what resistors though)

I think I'm going to eventually put it behind 5U and power it 15v. Also I want to use banana plugs.

Any hints or suggestion for what I need to think about would be much appreciated.


Quote:
corex
catchpenny wrote:
Can anyone tell me if when i finishing building a dock for it i should expect to get a constant signal from the different shaped LFO outs? I'm assuming i'll get a constant signal from the to VCOs.

Yeah I would expect that, but I haven't scoped it so I'm not really sure.

I also wonder what those trimmers do (at the VCO outs and CVs). Offset or attenuation I guess, but I'm not really sure.
catchpenny
sorry to keep bumping this but I've been working a way at it and have a another questions!

So the commercially available dock from vermona seems to run its outputs directly from the d connection to their sockets. I believe you could do the same with the LFO, noise and EG outs. So far, dead simple!

As we have seen the inputs go through a buffer stage before going to the actual synth. specifically:

osc 1+ 2 CV in
OSC 1+ 2 PWM
Filter cut off
VCA cv in

go through a pair of quad TL064cns

Question: is this buffer stage to protect the synth if you send too hot a signal, or is it to boost the signal if it is too low? or perhaps both? Or maybe I've missed something and it does something else entirely!
corex
catchpenny wrote:
Question: is this buffer stage to protect the synth if you send too hot a signal, or is it to boost the signal if it is too low? or perhaps both? Or maybe I've missed something and it does something else entirely!

I'm just guessing, but I think it's just there to avoid loading whatever the input circuits are (from elsewhere in your synth). They're probably configured as unity gain voltage-followers and will not boost levels. I would also guess that the Lancet is running internally on +/-12V rails because not all of the I/O is buffered; it must be in the correct range already.
catchpenny
great, that's helpful - thank you. I want to run the dock at +/-15 so I guess I'll want to step down the voltage so Ill go learn about negative feedback amplifiers.
afrodude2
This is my first post on muff wiggler...

It was the two threads on the lancet dock options that helped me decide on buying the mono lancet.

It maybe a silly question but I was wondering what type (resistance, log/linear, etc.) of potentiometers are used for the intensity controls on the inputs of the modular dock or anyone's DIY dock?

I am seriously considering making a passive DIY box just to use the full amount of options (LFO shapes, PWM, noise out filter in etc.) Am I right in thinking this is possible without the need for buffers?

I would have just searched for potentiometers on the forum but I have to make a post first.

Cheers
DiscoDevil
Did anyone actually finish a project? Would love to know the answers to some of the questions raised here and in the other thread.
afrodude2
Here it is: Used all outs and ins + an additional filter input in parallel, I put a switch in for turning the Oscs off, interestingly it doesn't switch the outputs off. The switch also includes the green and red LEDS in the picture. There's some pictures of other people's boxes on the other VML expansion thread on muffwiggler.

When installing the LEDs I originally put some resistors in thinking it would be +12V like the spec says using a multi meter it turned out it was just +5V
Synesthesia
have to make one of those shortly smile

any interest on making a pcb ?
DiscoDevil
Sweet! I have the modular docks for both my Lancets but I want to get some "Expansion" 2HP panels built for the functions that aren't included on the dock. Can you tell me if you get all of the LFO outputs simultaneously or only the one that's selected with the switch? Same with Noise. Only when it's selected via the dial? Does the ADSR out function as you'd expect, etc etc etc. In other words, are they fully functional?

Thanks!
DiscoDevil
Also, you tapped the aftertouch, pitch, mod, etc from the DB25 as well, correct? With the official panel, that info is not passed beyond the panel. Only the pitch and gate signals are output. I would apparently need to add that functionality to the breakout panel if I wanted to use aftertouch on external modules, correct?

Still wondering about whether the noise output is always on as well as how the LFO out pins work.

Thanks!
afrodude2
Sorry for the delay

Yep all available pins, by note pitch presumably you mean the 1v/oct then yes but i have not used it on another device or even its self. All from the DB25 as the pin-out says. Except lfo pins: 12 triangle and 24 square where the pdf said vice versa. Yeah looks like you need to build another panel for those functions.

ADSR seems to function right I stuck in the audio in for some strange blips. I haven't tested with a scope though.

The noise output is constant like the lfo waveform outs so you can use it for whatever you wish at the same time as using the two oscillators on waveforms or even with the oscs turned off.

(just like how you can still route the oscillators with them "switched off" as it seems as though the osc off switch just turns off the automatic routing to the filter.)

I have thought about making a PCB do you know any cad PCB apps? All my box is point to point wiring.
DiscoDevil
For the "expansion" panel, we're just going to drill 10 holes in a blank. Shouldn't even need a PCB since it's all outputs and can be tapped right off the Lancet Dock's DB25 connector.

Let me ask a friend what they use for PCB layouts.
Lem
So did anybody not bother with the buffers then?
soup
about $30 in parts...



Onurty
soup

Neat box! However, I don't see any of the circuitry that appears on the vermona modular dock. So basically there are no resistors, no IC's or anything and you simply wired the dsub outputs to a bunch of jack inputs, (according to the chart of course) and it works? is that it?
soup
Onurty wrote:
Neat box! However, I don't see any of the circuitry that appears on the vermona modular dock. So basically there are no resistors, no IC's or anything and you simply wired the dsub outputs to a bunch of jack inputs, (according to the chart of course) and it works? is that it?


Basically yes. There are no buffers so you might not want to bring the midi>pitch cv out to a jack but I didn't find outputting the midi>cv very useful anyway as there is no way to stop the synth from responding to midi.
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