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+/-15V designs on +/-12V and vice-versa
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Music Tech DIY  
Author +/-15V designs on +/-12V and vice-versa
appliancide
With the somewhat recent abundance of Serge and eurorack DIY projects, 12V systems are becoming as common as 15V systems. This thread aims to be a resource for going back and forth between the two common voltages. If a manufacturer has this information easily accessible, that will be noted here. Projects that are not documented for both voltage standards will be examined by members of the community. The results will be posted here and the resource will grow. This information will probably/hopefully be posted to the wiki as well.

Audio, CV and gate levels discussions are also welcomed, as are solutions to interfacing modules with different standards. Boost/buck methods for voltage conversion are probably relevant as well.

Let's respect the manufacturers and each other and make sure that we can all build whatever we want in whatever format we want. Om Om Om

______________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________

4ms:

Shuffling Clock Multiplier: works on +/-12-15v
Rotating Clock Divider: works on +/-12-15v
Noise Swash: works on +/-9-15v
Atoner: works on +/-12-15v

Aaron Lanterman's Buchla Easel Clones:

Bergfotron:

Projects are documented for +/-15v operation

Blacet:
+/-15V, but most designs will work on +/-12v with little or no modification

CGS - Ken Stone:
Most projects operate on +/-15v with notes for +/-12v in documentation

Tube VCA: Ken Stone: "I connected mine up to +/-12 volts today, without midification, though I do
have an adjustable plate currrent on my module. I was using line level
signals. It worked without issue.
One fellow who was using hotter signals was finding some distortion that
differed from when running on +/-15 volts.
Try reducing the filament current limiting resistors from 1k5 to 1k2, and
putting a 20k pot in series with the 8k2 plate resistor."

MegaOhm Audio:

Delta VCF: operates on +/-15v, but can run on +/-12v
"maybe change the current limiting resistor feeding the OTAs to 12k if you want to keep high end response" via gwaidan

Flight of Harmony:

Choices: operates on +/-9-15V
Plague Bearer: operates on +/-9-15V
V'Amp: operates on +/-9-15V
Sound of Shadows: operates on +/-12-15v

Fonitronik:

Attenuverting Mixer: Works on +/-12-15v
Thomas Henry Super Controller: Designed for 15V, According to Fonitronik, "maybe you won't have to change anything. most critical parts are referenced to the onboard 5V anyway. however, you could adjust R55 and R56 (schematic page 3, page 6 of documentation). lower their values to widen the range of the potentiometers if needed."

Thomas Henry X-4046: Works on +/-12-15V

Ian Fritz:
Projects are 12V, with notes in the build documentation for 15V.
______________
Thomas Henry:

VCO-1
http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_Henry/Pages/VCO-1.html - also see "Making Music With The 3080 OTA" and "the VCO chip cook book"

Oscar S. aka Sound provided this excellent information:

"The basic idea is to look for current and voltage references offsets and amplitudes.

For example VCO-1:
R43 provides current reference. You change it with a simple Rule of Three, so if for 15V is 1.5M for 12V is 1.2M

Coarse and Fine controls will see reduced their span. Look that with +15V/-15V supply, Coarse control will span 30 octaves! So maybe in this case you don't need to change it. With +12/-12V supply you will have 24 octaves span.
However, if you desire, decrease or increase the span is achieved increasing or decreasing R28.

Fine control could be useful to change it. For +15/-15V I use R46=3M that gives me one octave of span. So if you want an octave of span with +12/-12V use R46=2.4M

This could be useful useful for all expo converters... like the one in the VCF1

.....
At this point I bread-boarded the VC1 core and its waveshapers and Sunday has gone !

.....

OK , so I measured triangle output and the amplitude was about 8 p-p , I achieved close to 10Vp-p with little offset with:
R22=24K
R13=3.9K
R30=110K

Then, for sine output I achieved 10V p-p with:
R18=14K
R19=14K

For pulse, was expected smaller output, since comparator goes from one rail to the other.
I achieved 10V p-p and 1KΩ of standard output impedance with
R12=2K
R7=2K

Finally we have R41. It will decide the pulse width span of the control potentiometer.
In my breadboard, I noticed that with R41=265K, Pulse goes from aprox. 5% to 95% . Other folks could prefer other configuration.

Let me some time to check the other modules. Any question will be welcome.

Oscar."

Thank you Oscar for the excellent post! Good information for converting VCOs in general.
______________

David M. Ingebretsen's Synthasystem PCBs:

All projects work on +/-12-15v (most projects come with a separate pcb for regulating the power to +12/-10v)

Jurgen Haible:

Magic Smoke Electronics:

TH-201/Mankato VCF: Designed for 15V. According to Tim Servo, no changes required to operate at 12V

TH-101/Sheboygan 566 VCO: Designed for 15V. ???

TH-102/El Cerrito 2206 VCO: ???

TH-301/Cucamonga VC-LFO: ???

Malekko Heavy Industry:
Eurorack modules designed for +/-12v
Some modules will run of +/15V:

AntiOscillator
Noisering
Borg
Boogie

Natural Rythym Music/Thomas White:

NRM-001 Resonant Lopass Gate: Runs on +/-12-15v

PAiA:

MOTM/Synthesis Technology:

Music From Outer Space:
Most projects are documented for +/-9-15V on MFOS site. If you find a module that is not documented for your desired voltage, please post here.

Oakley Sound Systems:

COTA VCF: works on +/-12-15v
Control Modules: work on +/-12-15v
4019 VCA: works on +/-12-15v
S/H and Slew: works on +/-12-15v
EFG issue 4: works on +/-12-15v
EFG issue 6: documented for +/-15v
Overdrive: works on +/-12-15v


SMS Audio Electronics:
SN76477 Voice: operates on +/-15v "for +/-12v, change R60 and R59 to 1.2M (instead 1.5M)
R28 to 37.6K or substitute it by 50K~100K trim-pot
R31 to 60K or substitute it by a 100K trim-pot
R52 to 180K"
(People on several old threads on e-m suggested that no changes may actually be necessary)

Toppobrillo:

Triple Wave Folder: works on +/-12-15v
Buchla 281: all versions work on +/-12-15v (make sure you use correct version of build documention if you have older boards)

YuSynth:

The following were designed for 15v,but work on 12v with no changes:
Simple VCA
Mixer
ADSR
Steiner VCF
Arp 4072
Minimoog VCF
Diode VCF
Dual Gate delay
Dual Pulse delay
Dual Gated Slew
Random Module (Noise + S/H)
Saw Animator
Boolean Logic
Random Gates
FFB
VC-LFO

Some can't and need important modifications :
VCO: ???
CV-STANDARD: "change R3=15K, and R5=130K, and R7=130K. "


______________________________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________

Discussion is welcome and encouraged. Got a question about a module you want to build? This is your thread. Built a module on a voltage other than it is documented for? Please share what you had to do, or if nothing needed to be changed.
frequencycentral
Very good idea.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
I'm liking it. And, I'm happy to help out with the conversion duties, if you suggest some circuits. Typically, little if anything has to be changed when switching from one to the other. It's largely a matter of getting the panel controls in their proper ranges. Since I build my own stuff in 15V, but design for Intellijel in 12V, I tend to do all of my own designs in both formats.
diophantine
Sounds like a great idea! Could be nice to document in the wiki too, if it didn't feel like a ghost-town over there. :neutral:

Input and output ranges would also be great to have; can be frustrating putting something together than then realizing that it is meant for 0-10V CVs, but you're working with 0-5V CVs.

It may also be worthwhile to add non-DIY modules too, for those of us interested in doing repanel jobs to another format.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
diophantine wrote:
Input and output ranges would also be great to have; can be frustrating putting something together than then realizing that it is meant for 0-10V CVs, but you're working with 0-5V CVs.

It might be worthwhile documenting how to change these from one to the other...?
Bricks
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
diophantine wrote:
Input and output ranges would also be great to have; can be frustrating putting something together than then realizing that it is meant for 0-10V CVs, but you're working with 0-5V CVs.

It might be worthwhile documenting how to change these from one to the other...?


I'd love to see this type of stuff!
clarke68
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
I'm liking it. And, I'm happy to help out with the conversion duties, if you suggest some circuits.

I would love it if you could figure out how to build the Jurgen Haible Living VCOs in 12v.

Thanks in advance!
CJ Miller
EFM and Ian Fritz are 12 Volt also. With various bits of CGS and Serge that makes my place mostly 12V. I tend to build stuff which was designed for 15 as intended for 15 V supply.

Might do my Best of CGS panels for 15V because of the VCOs. No pressing reason to change parts since I don't need them to run off of 12
BananaPlug
clarke68 wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
I'm liking it. And, I'm happy to help out with the conversion duties, if you suggest some circuits.

I would love it if you could figure out how to build the Jurgen Haible Living VCOs in 12v.

Thanks in advance!


It's really easy to put in two voltage regulators and just run the +/-12V module on +/-12V.
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch
clarke68 wrote:
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
I'm liking it. And, I'm happy to help out with the conversion duties, if you suggest some circuits.

I would love it if you could figure out how to build the Jurgen Haible Living VCOs in 12v.

Thanks in advance!

Why not? Sounds like a plan! Just don't ask me to mess with the JH frequency shifter. That idea gives me the willies!
appliancide
It looks like there is some interest here. I will start formatting the first post with more information as I have time. My original intention was to just have a resource for switching back and forth between 15 and 12 V, but I do see the usefulness of also including voltage swings and gate levels as well as some tips to deal with differences in those levels.
qu.one
Most Blacet modules will work without any additional conversion - aside from a custom cable.
iopop
+1 on the suggestion to add this kind of stuff into the wiki!
Paradigm X
Great suggestion. This always confuses me (lots of things do TBH! lol )
bkbirge
appliancide wrote:

CGS:
Most projects are 15V, with notes for 12V on the individual project pages. If you find a module that is not documented for both, please post here.



CGS65 Tube VCA would be one I'd like to see definitively checked out for +/-12. I know some folks have done it but darned if I can find any docs/sites.

tIB
^ Im pretty sure ive seen a metalbox version of the tube VCA in euro... didnt mr white have one? Id assume that was running on 12v.
bkbirge
tIB wrote:
^ Im pretty sure ive seen a metalbox version of the tube VCA in euro... didnt mr white have one? Id assume that was running on 12v.


Yeah I know I've seen it, just don't have any info. About a year ago a very kind and knowledgeable wiggler talked me through some of what needs to be done but I've since lost the info. I wasn't ready to build then but I am now and of course can't remember who I talked to. This would be a good place to put the info if I/we can find it again I think.
sduck
This is a great idea for an excellent resource, wherever it ends up.

Just an observation - making statements like "most of the xxx modules run on either" doesn't really help much - can we be more specific about this stuff? Specifics! We need specifics!
appliancide
I just figured that would be the easiest way to list the ones that typically have the needed documentation. The ones that we need to be specific about are the ones that are not documented anywhere on the manufacturer website or the build documents.

Using CGS as an example...if Ken says "this module will work on 15V or 12V", then we know that nothing needs to be posted about this particular module. But if he says "this module should work on 12V, with some component changes", we could list what those changes would need to be.
neilbaldwin
Perfect timing as I've just bought a Yu Transistor Filter kit and it's designed for 15V where I want to build it as 12V.
Luka
nice work

if we start getting a lot of content to this i'll happily make it a sticky
appliancide
Excellent. I will add some content as I get it together. I am also curious what other people think of the suggestion to list all of the modules. My opinion is that most people have the build documentation in front of them while they build, so if the information is there.....but then a list annotated with "in docs" wouldn't be too crazy. It could give people a one stop "window shop" to mentally add to their already hopelessly oversized backlogs. Dead Banana

It is probably a good idea to link to schematics as opposed to posting them, at least in the case of people that are currently selling the projects and hosting the documentation on their sites. "Ask first" is probably the best policy to keep as many project sellers as possible involved.
Paradigm X
Wasnt sure if you wanted info adding in this thread or not?

I asked yves Yusynth about +/-12v for the Steiner filter, CA3096 version, which works without changes. Not got round to building yet tho ...
slowalan
Re CGS Tube VCA, works very well on 12v...see this thread https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39772&start=0&postda ys=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
appliancide
Paradigm X wrote:
Wasnt sure if you wanted info adding in this thread or not?

I asked yves Yusynth about +/-12v for the Steiner filter, CA3096 version, which works without changes. Not got round to building yet tho ...


Absolutely add information if you have it. I bumped a 12V thread over on e-m to ask Yves if I could post all of the information here.

I highly encourage PCBs sellers to contribute here as well. Spam your products and help the greater good at the same time!
appliancide
Bump for a little bit of progress on the first post. I have lots more information to add and I am still open to feedback on the best way to list/organize everything.
roglok
great idea. as soon as there's a decent amount of info, i'd be up for creating a nice html table layout for quicker/cleaner reference than pure text listing.
appliancide
qu.one wrote:
Most Blacet modules will work without any additional conversion - aside from a custom cable.


Do you have any examples of builds that people have done for 12v?
neilbaldwin
Paradigm X wrote:
Wasnt sure if you wanted info adding in this thread or not?

I asked yves Yusynth about +/-12v for the Steiner filter, CA3096 version, which works without changes. Not got round to building yet tho ...


Great stuff.

Could I be cheeky and get you to ask him if the Transistor (Moog) filter will run OK in 12V too?

thumbs up
appliancide
neilbaldwin wrote:
Paradigm X wrote:
Wasnt sure if you wanted info adding in this thread or not?

I asked yves Yusynth about +/-12v for the Steiner filter, CA3096 version, which works without changes. Not got round to building yet tho ...


Great stuff.

Could I be cheeky and get you to ask him if the Transistor (Moog) filter will run OK in 12V too?

thumbs up


That module is listed in the first post. The only Yusynth modules that require changes for 12v operation are the vco and standards modules.
neilbaldwin
appliancide wrote:
neilbaldwin wrote:
Paradigm X wrote:
Wasnt sure if you wanted info adding in this thread or not?

I asked yves Yusynth about +/-12v for the Steiner filter, CA3096 version, which works without changes. Not got round to building yet tho ...


Great stuff.

Could I be cheeky and get you to ask him if the Transistor (Moog) filter will run OK in 12V too?

thumbs up


That module is listed in the first post. The only Yusynth modules that require changes for 12v operation are the vco and standards modules.


d'oh!

Cheers hihi
megaohm
These Malekko modules will work powered from +/-15V:
AntiOscillator
Noisering
Borg
Boogie

This one will not:
Oscillator (Unkle? That's what I call it)

Most modules that are converted to a different format will need adjusting of the CV inputs. For example: euro expects 0-10V EG levels (well, mostly. There are no rules in euro) while MOTM, DotCom and others put out 0-5V EG levels.
You will need to boost the signal at the euro module's input or cut the input resistor in half to get the full range of CV motion.
appliancide
bkbirge wrote:
appliancide wrote:

CGS:
Most projects are 15V, with notes for 12V on the individual project pages. If you find a module that is not documented for both, please post here.



CGS65 Tube VCA would be one I'd like to see definitively checked out for +/-12. I know some folks have done it but darned if I can find any docs/sites.


Added this info to the list. Post samples when you get it built!
appliancide
I'm still plugging away at this, albeit a bit slower than I had hoped.

Got some great info from Sound (aka Oscar) over at e-m about converting 15v designs to 12v:

"The basic idea is to look for current and voltage references offsets and amplitudes.

For example VCO-1:
R43 provides current reference. You change it with a simple Rule of Three, so if for 15V is 1.5M for 12V is 1.2M

Coarse and Fine controls will see reduced their span. Look that with +15V/-15V supply, Coarse control will span 30 octaves! So maybe in this case you don't need to change it. With +12/-12V supply you will have 24 octaves span.
However, if you desire, decrease or increase the span is achieved increasing or decreasing R28.

Fine control could be useful to change it. For +15/-15V I use R46=3M that gives me one octave of span. So if you want an octave of span with +12/-12V use R46=2.4M

This could be useful useful for all expo converters... like the one in the VCF1

.....
At this point I bread-boarded the VC1 core and its waveshapers and Sunday has gone !

.....

OK , so I measured triangle output and the amplitude was about 8 p-p , I achieved close to 10Vp-p with little offset with:
R22=24K
R13=3.9K
R30=110K

Then, for sine output I achieved 10V p-p with:
R18=14K
R19=14K

For pulse, was expected smaller output, since comparator goes from one rail to the other.
I achieved 10V p-p and 1KΩ of standard output impedance with
R12=2K
R7=2K

Finally we have R41. It will decide the pulse width span of the control potentiometer.
In my breadboard, I noticed that with R41=265K, Pulse goes from aprox. 5% to 95% . Other folks could prefer other configuration.

Let me some time to check the other modules. Any question will be welcome.

Oscar."

Anyone else have any progress to report?

15V guys, have you ever had to have a little daughter board with 12v regulators, or do you just modify the module to work on the higher voltage?

Tips from people with Frankensystems for working with different gate and CV levels would also be nice to see. I would think that most of this could be taken care of with relatively simple opamp circuits.
frozenkore
This thread is awesome! I'm guessing the most affected circuits will be VCOs and more critically controlled circuits. I have a request: Tellum TLN-156 Neural Agonizer. I'm thinking this would be pretty sweet to make a 32hp panel for and stick in a euro case (that can hold the tanks!).
gwaidan
MegaOhm Delta VCF works just fine on 12v-maybe change the current limiting resistor feeding the OTAs to 12k if you want to keep high end response.
Sound
appliancide wrote:
...
Got some great info from Sound (aka Oscar) over at e-m about converting 15v designs to 12v:
"The basic idea is to look for current and voltage references offsets and amplitudes.
For example VCO-1...

Hello,
I want to clarify that VCO-1 is referring to Thomas Henry VCO-1.
You can find further information of it in Scott Stite's site: http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_Henry/Pages/VCO-1.html
Where there are the schematics which I refer.

Quote:
Let's respect the manufacturers and each other and make sure that we can all build whatever we want in whatever format we want.

Yes this is nice. To do it implies to know a little how things work. Thomas Henry designs are very good to start to do it, because his designs are very good and are complemented with books or articles that explain how they work. For the VCO-1, look at "Making Music With The 3080 OTA" or "the VCO chip cook book" . Any way all his books are recommendable as well all articles hosted in Scott Stite's site. To breadboard a circuit meanwhile you read a book is very educative.

Quote:
15V guys, have you ever had to have a little daughter board with 12v regulators,

This is to me a good and easy solution. Using common 7812 and 7912 would do the job.
Quote:
or do you just modify the module to work on the higher voltage?

It will depend of the time that you have to modify the circuit, or if it is an easy circuit(for example change a few resistors) or if it is a complex circuit.
asterisk
this may have been covered here but i just got word from tony @ oakley and he said his Deep Equinoxe phaser and Discontinuity waveshaper/folder modules will both work at +/- 12v with just a couple of resistor changes.

im going to get some PCBs and try to make some euro builds of these two.
appliancide
asterisk wrote:
this may have been covered here but i just got word from tony @ oakley and he said his Deep Equinoxe phaser and Discontinuity waveshaper/folder modules will both work at +/- 12v with just a couple of resistor changes.

im going to get some PCBs and try to make some euro builds of these two.


Do you know the changes that need to be made?
appliancide
Sound wrote:
appliancide wrote:
...
Got some great info from Sound (aka Oscar) over at e-m about converting 15v designs to 12v:
"The basic idea is to look for current and voltage references offsets and amplitudes.
For example VCO-1...

Hello,
I want to clarify that VCO-1 is referring to Thomas Henry VCO-1.
You can find further information of it in Scott Stite's site: http://www.birthofasynth.com/Thomas_Henry/Pages/VCO-1.html
Where there are the schematics which I refer.



I have added the information and links that you provided to the list in the first post. Thanks again!

Oscar has started a very good thread over at electro-music about linear power supplies.
appliancide
gwaidan wrote:
MegaOhm Delta VCF works just fine on 12v-maybe change the current limiting resistor feeding the OTAs to 12k if you want to keep high end response.


Added this to the list. Thanks!
theabsent
edited
cholopink
I'm trying with Yusynth VCO.

This are the modifications I see:
R38 to 7K
R43 to 115K
R50 to 62K

Anyone can tell me if i'm right.

What about the tempco divider? R11 has to be changed?

And the 78L15 regulators? Since they are used to produce a lack of voltage on some ICs, the effect would be the same than with 78L12's.

Thanks.
nickster
Great idea this post! we're not worthy Perhaps if someone could chime in and describe the process of connecting a 15v designed PCB to 12v Euro bus board that might be useful. Ie what adapter works to plug into the 15v port on the board and then running into the 12v power rail.
roglok
Quote:
Perhaps if someone could chime in and describe the process of connecting a 15v designed PCB to 12v Euro bus board that might be useful. Ie what adapter works to plug into the 15v port on the board and then running into the 12v power rail.


you might find some of these ideas/techniques helpful:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50288
nickster
roglok wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps if someone could chime in and describe the process of connecting a 15v designed PCB to 12v Euro bus board that might be useful. Ie what adapter works to plug into the 15v port on the board and then running into the 12v power rail.


you might find some of these ideas/techniques helpful:
https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=50288


Thanks very useful link. Perhaps we should sticky it to this thread?
By the way what is the part number of the black power adapter you used on your stripboad?
roglok
Quote:
By the way what is the part number of the black power adapter you used on your stripboad?


It's basically the same as a standard 2x5 pin header but with a plastic case to prevent accidental polarity reversal. Doepfer really made a bad design choice with the standard pin headers on their modules...

These are the ones I'm using. Quite cheap at €0.08...
nickster
roglok wrote:
Quote:
By the way what is the part number of the black power adapter you used on your stripboad?


It's basically the same as a standard 2x5 pin header but with a plastic case to prevent accidental polarity reversal. Doepfer really made a bad design choice with the standard pin headers on their modules...

These are the ones I'm using. Quite cheap at €0.08...


Great, thanks very much once again.
ersatzplanet
I think there are now much simpler ways to deal with mixed systems than modifying PCBs. I think that is cool for those who like to mess with their gear and don't plan on ever selling it.

The simplest thing to do is build a big +15/-15 supply for the non-euro and get a TipTop powered bus board for the Euro. It will take +9 to +16 and give you +12/-12/+5 out of it. And connectors for both AS and Doepfer style power busses. No mods on the modules at all.
roglok
ersatzplanet wrote:
I think there are now much simpler ways to deal with mixed systems than modifying PCBs. I think that is cool for those who like to mess with their gear and don't plan on ever selling it.

The simplest thing to do is build a big +15/-15 supply for the non-euro and get a TipTop powered bus board for the Euro. It will take +9 to +16 and give you +12/-12/+5 out of it. And connectors for both AS and Doepfer style power busses. No mods on the modules at all.


It really depends on the size of your system. I'm working on a 9U eurorack system - two separate PSUs would be overkill (and add extra expenses)... But you're right I don't plan on ever selling it smile
ersatzplanet
roglok wrote:
ersatzplanet wrote:
I think there are now much simpler ways to deal with mixed systems than modifying PCBs. I think that is cool for those who like to mess with their gear and don't plan on ever selling it.

The simplest thing to do is build a big +15/-15 supply for the non-euro and get a TipTop powered bus board for the Euro. It will take +9 to +16 and give you +12/-12/+5 out of it. And connectors for both AS and Doepfer style power busses. No mods on the modules at all.


It really depends on the size of your system. I'm working on a 9U eurorack system - two separate PSUs would be overkill (and add extra expenses)... But you're right I don't plan on ever selling it smile


I almost don't think of the TipTop powered bus as another supply but of course it is. The $160 price tag is nothing to ignore too but one could think of $45 of that being the bus board. If I had a large 5U system with a beefy supply for that already, then I would think of regulating it's 15v supply down to the 12v needed for the Euro. Since the proposed modification of each of the modules involves quite a bit of DIYness then I think it would be easier to build a regulator board to take the 15 down to 12 than to mod a bunch of 12v boards to use 15v. The TipTop idea was for those not interested in DIYing their modules. Doing this of course is easier with a predominately 15v system (with a 15v supply already there).
neilbaldwin
Can a moderator 'sticky' this thread. It's more than handy!

thumbs up
BananaPlug
ersatzplanet wrote:
I almost don't think of the TipTop powered bus as another supply but of course it is. The $160 price tag is nothing to ignore too but one could think of $45 of that being the bus board. If I had a large 5U system with a beefy supply for that already, then I would think of regulating it's 15v supply down to the 12v needed for the Euro...


Using the TipTop's a great idea. Seems like a quick way to get it done with little risk of screwing up. DIY 15 to 12 regulation is cheap though and has served me well in frankensynths I've put together where it's mostly 15V with a few euro modules. Built it on perf board with a connector for a 15V frac cable from the main distro and wires to feed the 12V distro. Clip heatsinks on the regulators and mount it somewhere in the case where the air can move but nothing shorts out against anything.
appliancide
The always inspiring Electronic Peasant does something very similar to what you guys are talking about, except he starts with something like +/-22V and regulates it to what he needs in each case.
neil.johnson
The CESYG DuaLFO works on anything from +/-12V to +/-15V without modification. It was designed that way 8_)

Neil
big job head
Jurgen Haible's living VCO can be adapted to +/-12V with the following resistors changes

VCO1 :
R5 - 120k
R7 - 390k
R12 - 1k8
R22 - 47k
R24 - 4k7
R33 - 33k
R34 - 10k
R36 - 560k
(refering to page 1 of the schematics, simply report the corresponding resistors for the other 2 VCOs)

DRIVER SECTION :
R140 - 150k
R150 - 10k
R160 - 75k

mod found in this post on e-m http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-30749-450.html&postdays=0&postord er=asc&highlight=
tested and approved !!
logicgate
Has anyone found out how to make Yusynth VCO works with 12v??
Amberclock
appliancide wrote:
"The basic idea is to look for current and voltage references offsets and amplitudes.

For example VCO-1:
R43 provides current reference. You change it with a simple Rule of Three, so if for 15V is 1.5M for 12V is 1.2M

Coarse and Fine controls will see reduced their span. Look that with +15V/-15V supply, Coarse control will span 30 octaves! So maybe in this case you don't need to change it. With +12/-12V supply you will have 24 octaves span.
However, if you desire, decrease or increase the span is achieved increasing or decreasing R28.

Fine control could be useful to change it. For +15/-15V I use R46=3M that gives me one octave of span. So if you want an octave of span with +12/-12V use R46=2.4M

This could be useful useful for all expo converters... like the one in the VCF1

Let me some time to check the other modules. Any question will be welcome.
Oscar."


So, using that logic, if I plan on making the Thomas Henry VCA-1 in euro format, the only thing I should change is the R23 to 264K = 261K in standard 1% resistors? Can anyone verify or at least point me to the right direction? (:
Amberclock
Bump!


bump for anyone who could answer my question? oops
el-bee
I tried searching the forum for sth conclusive on modular signal levels & conversion but failed, so I'll try here:

Having just completed my TTSH & 1601 build and looking to put together a 'supporting' eurorack skiff, I'm wondering about the voltage levels of signals going to eurorack modules. I read somewhere that eurorack being a 12V system it would be good for about 10V levels. So is there any short- or long term risk of breakage, if I eg. take a 14V gate from 1601 and feed it to some eurorack module??

If yes, I suppose having some attenuator to bring down the voltage to some safe level (10V?) would be needed? Is eg. a clipping zener or (fixed) resistor attenuator better here? Or some better approach I'm unaware of? Does anyone have any good circuits to share?

Dunno, perhaps this all is just about mail-bombing the maker of each module, like what their builds can handle. Thought I'd ask anyway razz
indigoskywalker
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
I'm liking it. And, I'm happy to help out with the conversion duties, if you suggest some circuits. Typically, little if anything has to be changed when switching from one to the other. It's largely a matter of getting the panel controls in their proper ranges. Since I build my own stuff in 15V, but design for Intellijel in 12V, I tend to do all of my own designs in both formats.


Although not Serge/Buchla, Roland and ARP vco/vcf schematics are also interesting candidates ;-)
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