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Look for patch examples on complex rhythm
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author Look for patch examples on complex rhythm
rec.Koner
very frustrating waah Dead Banana

So i rewatch these legendary videos





And i've read many threads on advices what could help. But they are more on general ideas or specific techniques, and not picture in general.

So i desperetely ask for a patch example of something similar to study it. Patch sheet of hardware or scene in nord g2, doesnt matter. Just need to look at something complete and deconstruct it.

Note, it's not that much about sounds (in Ebotronix video it sounds like Richard Devine's bongo from Aalto, for example), but about rhythm patterns/structures/sequencing. Including how it shifts, etc.

And while i saw those threads with thoughts on clock dividers etc, they all were like ideas out of context. So i look for complete scene to research.

zombie
Tago Mago
Great tips here:

Navs
What do you understand under the term 'complex rhythms'?

The examples posted above might be busy or to a greater or lesser extent irregular but, with the exception of Ebotronix, they seem like fairly straight, rigid, quantized rhythms. seriously, i just don't get it

If that's what you're after, mix some trigger sources with OR-combiners and switch them to different destinations. Use a random trigger to actuate the switching. Use a voltage addressable switch to randomise the destination.

If you want to make rhythms that are harder to 'count', use multiple sequencers set to different step lengths. Again, use random gates to reset to sequencers.

If you want to make the sort of rhythms that are interesting but impossible to dance to, grab a bunch of comparators and wavefolders and generate your triggers from analogue voltages nanners hihi
rec.Koner
Tago Mago wrote:
Great tips here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDyEjh-dviU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzgchmLE4Z0


Thanks, i'll take a look - investigating someone's workflow, especially intended for live/semi-improv, is always inspiring.

Navs wrote:
What do you understand under the term 'complex rhythms'?

The examples posted above might be busy or to a greater or lesser extent irregular but, with the exception of Ebotronix, they seem like fairly straight, rigid, quantized rhythms. seriously, i just don't get it


Your reply is thoughts-provoking. You know, like while Autechre were mind blowing for me, then i heard indonesian gamelan orchestra and said that gamelan are superior in composition than AE stuff (which has roots in hip-hop if you ignore sound design) woah d'oh!

You may say that liquidcolour's recordings are simpler than they seem to be, guess because you have more experience and knowledge and able to see through them and separate structure into basics. Yet for me, they sound pretty "OMG!" and i hardly can imagine how they sequenced and organized.

As for Ebotronix example, yeah, very funky or jazzy (with those tempo shifts especially), so it's whole different level.

Overall yeah i know there were many threads with insights that clock division should help, or how sample and hold might be useful for semi-random drums etc. etc. But as i said i couldnt tie everything together, thats why i went looking for "complete perfomance/composition/scene" example, where you'd see how they use all those things together and what result it shapes.

Another problem might be that i wanna find out all possible ways to do that something (idm like drums? math rock like groove? breakcore by synthesis only?) having bare minimal of tools (like when u dont have fancy stuff like dividers and boolean logic, so use lfos, envelopes etc. unconventionally perhaps).

So, well, thanks for bringing up questions. Still, was a bit strange to read a reaction like this Mr. Green
Navs
Well, my question was intended to help break down things that seem complicated into smaller, simpler examples. My general point was that the examples in the videos mostly follow one clock and are essentially just 16ths, eight or quarter notes etc.

Here are some concrete examples:



Random but synchronized gates



Randomly reset sequencer, also synchronized



Randomly switching between two gate sources, using a crossfader
rec.Koner
Hm. Thanks for "subtools / elements" examples, i'll see and try recreate.

I must say that it's exactly these things that i find being one of key moments in modulars. Not just sound shaping, but algorhythmical sequencing, if you'd say? Which goes away from pianoroll/tracker mindset that hunt you for years.

One of "modular drums" tricks that always got my attention were also those quick shifts of rhythm without loosing overall. I hear them in Ebotronix video (strongest moment might be after pause https://youtu.be/GyA6vcrroXQ?t=100 when they go again. those "rolls" of percussion while staying inside main groove), or in Mudlogger's second track here at some point (white noise drums on background) https://gameoflife.bandcamp.com/album/mudlogger-the-art-of-losing-face

I got to conclusion it should be "ratcheting" technique i read about, yeah?
Navs
rec.Koner wrote:
I got to conclusion it should be "ratcheting" technique i read about, yeah?


I haven't listened, but yes, I think that's what it's called.

You can do this sort of thing with the Sequentix P3 MIDI sequencer: set a 'ratchet' for a certain note, then determine what it does, e.g. just repeat the note or repeat and raise the pitch, set how many times it repeats within the step. Then you can set another so-called aux event to determine the probability of that ratchet happening.

It's fun stuff but for my taste I think you have to use it sparingly before the ear either gets tired of it or ignores it as a gimmick.

Anyway, it's easy to patch on the modular if you have the clock dividers/multipliers and logic blocks that you mention in your first post. It just gets module intensive, which is why trying things out with the Nord Modular is practical.
rec.Koner
Yeah i understand you can do it more easily with right tools, it becomes pain when you wanna imitate it in workflow without those, though.
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