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noise cancellation
MUFF WIGGLER Forum Index -> Production Techniques  
Author noise cancellation
slumberjack
looking for your oppionions on noise reduction on multitrack recording in post production / mixing stage.

do your treat ever single track? or the sum?

hardware? software?

a friend of me showed me the izotope plug-in. he uses it for soundtracks on movies and films.

i'm working with reaper.

recorded a couple of songs when i started multitracking 'a bit' too low, but i still want to put the stuff out (it's actually an album), so i want to find a workaround.
smithknows
izotope works really well. But kind of pricey.
I just saw that Klevgrand came out with this recently.
https://klevgrand.se/products/brusfri/
Looks really great for what you’re talking about.
noisejockey
Yep, iZotope Denoiser. Nothing works miracles except maybe the hyper-pricey Cedar DNS turnkey systems used in film production, but iZotope is the current gold standard. You'll get 8-12 dB reduction with minimal artifacts in most cases, based on my experience; more and you're introducing that classic warbly audio artifact.

You just need enough for a noise print - doesn't take much - and you're golden. Honestly the time spent trying other solutions is probably pricier than just getting iZotope.

(I'm old enough to remember the days of DiNR on Pro Tools, which excelled in making your tracks sound like they were burbling underwater.)
taylor12k
izotope RX, here

treating the whole mix (sum) is possible (if you have a spot of JUST noise that you can "learn")... but, like any mix fix, it's always better to do it on the source if possible.. if you have a single noisy track, treat that.. as you're not affecting things in the whole mix you may not be wanting to touch.



slumberjack wrote:
looking for your oppionions on noise reduction on multitrack recording in post production / mixing stage.

do your treat ever single track? or the sum?

hardware? software?

a friend of me showed me the izotope plug-in. he uses it for soundtracks on movies and films.

i'm working with reaper.

recorded a couple of songs when i started multitracking 'a bit' too low, but i still want to put the stuff out (it's actually an album), so i want to find a workaround.
xwk98
iZotope RX also here, one of the the best tool. These guys are genius!
slumberjack
thanks for sharing your knowledge!
slumberjack
btw. got brusfri for now, works great. maybe someday when i got to much money to spend i'll head for izotope rz! but first there are a few other things on my mind... wink

btw. tried it on a 16ch mix, the plug-in on 4ch - i had to render the tracks. it's not that light on cpu as i thought it wouzld be.
Soy Sos
Can you be more specific about the noise issues you're having?
Cause of noise, characteristics/quality of noise, types of instruments, amount of instrument and/vocal tracks and any other important details
regarding the conditions under which the recordings were produced?
I've done a fair amount of mixing for clients with problematic recordings that they produced themselves and oftentimes a per track, per instrument approach is needed.
For example: on a hissy white noise problem for a backing vocal, I might first cut all the blank spaces around the vocal and try a low pass filter at 6/8k.
For 60 cycle hum, a 70/100 hz high pass filter may be used on non low end critical material.
I just used a combination of RX, equalization and compression to clean up dialogue taken from a camera mic in a theater with a noisy HVAC system. Not perfect, but better.
You can usually get away with more drastic measures when the production is a non naturalistic, electronic soundscape.
ngarjuna
You should definitely give ReaFIR a try. I forget what it's called but there's a subtractive mode where you can feed it your noise and it will create a profile and then filter that from whatever else you push through it. And it's already installed for you. Arguably it's as 'good' at removing noise as any other tools out there though the UI is not very fine tuned (as I recall it iss quite tweakable though).

Noise reduction is almost always a tradeoff, there's no free lunch. In my experience each product has certain kinds of noise (not always predictable, mind you) that they're better and worse at removing. So if you can experiment (maybe with a portable REAPER install and other people's plug-ins) you may find that one is more what you had in mind than another.
slumberjack
Soy Sos wrote:
Can you be more specific about the noise issues you're having?
Cause of noise, characteristics/quality of noise, types of instruments, amount of instrument and/vocal tracks and any other important details
regarding the conditions under which the recordings were produced?
I've done a fair amount of mixing for clients with problematic recordings that they produced themselves and oftentimes a per track, per instrument approach is needed.
For example: on a hissy white noise problem for a backing vocal, I might first cut all the blank spaces around the vocal and try a low pass filter at 6/8k.
For 60 cycle hum, a 70/100 hz high pass filter may be used on non low end critical material.
I just used a combination of RX, equalization and compression to clean up dialogue taken from a camera mic in a theater with a noisy HVAC system. Not perfect, but better.
You can usually get away with more drastic measures when the production is a non naturalistic, electronic soundscape.


it's mostly noise from the mixing desk caused by too low levels while recording with two old AD converters.
hermbot
Yeah, RX is basically a black magic miracle package. Denoiser is crazy effective and de-clipper can fix and restore distorted and clipped audio, something I thought was pretty much impossible.

Note that if you have access to Adobe Audition most of those tools are already built in. (Licensed by izotope for Adobe.)
PhineasFreak
i use waves x-noise for such purposes. so quick and effective - easy to use the learn function to find the noise profile on a blank section then just pull that noise outta the whole track...
chvad
ngarjuna wrote:
You should definitely give ReaFIR a try. I forget what it's called but there's a subtractive mode where you can feed it your noise and it will create a profile and then filter that from whatever else you push through it. And it's already installed for you. Arguably it's as 'good' at removing noise as any other tools out there though the UI is not very fine tuned (as I recall it iss quite tweakable though).

Noise reduction is almost always a tradeoff, there's no free lunch. In my experience each product has certain kinds of noise (not always predictable, mind you) that they're better and worse at removing. So if you can experiment (maybe with a portable REAPER install and other people's plug-ins) you may find that one is more what you had in mind than another.


Second everything said here. If you have Reaper.. you have the tool already!
CopperHydra
slumberjack wrote:


it's mostly noise from the mixing desk caused by too low levels while recording with two old AD converters.


One way to beat noise on old analog consoles is to push the signals to the red line as hard as you can without clipping, ...too much, with analog you can usually get away with clipping a little and depending on the track it might just add something you want. This is to improve your Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) by adding more signal. However, reputable engineers will tell you that digital should NEVER be clipped during mixing. I'm assuming you know this since you're running a low signal into ADCs. So on your master channel out of the mixer, or whatever outputs you're using, before the signal goes to the convertors, put something in the signal path to attenuate the signal down to about -10dB or -12dB. Note, find something to attenuate with that won't clip the signal or add a noticeable level of noise to your signal. Eurorack mixing modules should have enough headroom if you have one handy.
slumberjack
CopperHydra wrote:
slumberjack wrote:


it's mostly noise from the mixing desk caused by too low levels while recording with two old AD converters.


One way to beat noise on old analog consoles is to push the signals to the red line as hard as you can without clipping, ...too much, with analog you can usually get away with clipping a little and depending on the track it might just add something you want. This is to improve your Signal to Noise Ratio (SNR) by adding more signal. However, reputable engineers will tell you that digital should NEVER be clipped during mixing. I'm assuming you know this since you're running a low signal into ADCs. So on your master channel out of the mixer, or whatever outputs you're using, before the signal goes to the convertors, put something in the signal path to attenuate the signal down to about -10dB or -12dB. Note, find something to attenuate with that won't clip the signal or add a noticeable level of noise to your signal. Eurorack mixing modules should have enough headroom if you have one handy.


i record as hot as possible since a while. also with the DA convertors i let the sequence run and adjust the volume AHAP. i use older one's so they a noise sensitive too. and since i do so i almost never got noise issues with direct out recordings. it's a diffenrent story with fx chains in post production. there i avoid to run through the desk again. i might gonna get a new desk someday but you know i at least want a apb 40ch until then i use my soundcraft TWO 40ch to death but it's wrecked and noisy...but the recording i'm asking for help i did with a midas venice.
shootingtigers
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but it's very important to ensure that any compression or limiting etc. used in the mix isn't making the problem worse...

Aside from that dynamic EQ can help to bring out the desired material...
slumberjack
shootingtigers wrote:
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious but it's very important to ensure that any compression or limiting etc. used in the mix isn't making the problem worse...

Aside from that dynamic EQ can help to bring out the desired material...


i never use compression other that on a single track yet.
Michael O.
In my experience the izotope suite is great, but nothing beats the old Dolby cat43 for transparently removing noise from pre-recorded material.
Funky40
Izotope RX is on sale right now
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/repair-and-edit/rx.html

29$ for RX elements vs. 129$ ! ( through January 8 )


now my question:
would RX Elements be sufficient for removing clicks ( attack-clicks) on modular percussion-y jamms ?
and enough to remove the often usual noisefloor from eurorack recordings ?
( i have no real ground in my (livingroom-) studio. Its terrible. )


from the Izotope RX elements page:
Quote:

Say goodbye to noise, clicking, clipping, and hum.

RX Elements includes four plug-ins that work within your favorite digital audio workstation or non-linear editor that address common audio problems in music and post production. Confidently tackle noise (like room noise, amp hiss, refrigerators and air conditioners), clipping (mic or guitar distortion), clicks (mouth clicks, vinyl, clicky bass lines), and hum (cycle hum and line noise).
slumberjack
Funky40 wrote:
Izotope RX is on sale right now
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/repair-and-edit/rx.html

29$ for RX elements vs. 129$ ! ( through January 8 )


now my question:
would RX Elements be sufficient for removing clicks ( attack-clicks) on modular percussion-y jamms ?
and enough to remove the often usual noisefloor from eurorack recordings ?
( i have no real ground in my (livingroom-) studio. Its terrible. )


from the Izotope RX elements page:
Quote:

Say goodbye to noise, clicking, clipping, and hum.

RX Elements includes four plug-ins that work within your favorite digital audio workstation or non-linear editor that address common audio problems in music and post production. Confidently tackle noise (like room noise, amp hiss, refrigerators and air conditioners), clipping (mic or guitar distortion), clicks (mouth clicks, vinyl, clicky bass lines), and hum (cycle hum and line noise).



a friend of me is working with rx for de-clicking on a professional music and soundtrack level for films.
how about getting a balanced output module in future? wink
Funky40
slumberjack wrote:

how about getting a balanced output module in future? wink

i think thats what i have wink ( intellijell in-out. I have two )
i even have DI boxes with transformer decoupling or something like that behind my modular and inbetween sub-mix and mix, and also computer and mix. etc.
cheap ones though.

I´d like to work with old recordings wink ( there is some good music )
new recordings are mostly ITB only. problem solved wink

anyway, i went for the RX pack for 29$. too good of a deal.
slumberjack
Funky40 wrote:

I´d like to work with old recordings wink ( there is some good music )


one stumble over stunning (like: who made this and put in onto this disk?) material ever once in a while!

ps.
switched to linux for portable so RX won't work for the cleaning in future so far.
one also has to make decision and bring sacrifaces to please the gods one cin a while.
frated
Izotope rx SlayerBadger!
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