Kermit mk III - coming soon

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klick
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by klick » Mon May 04, 2020 3:20 am

yes, it's the drifting of the clocks between 2 clocks beat(both kermit and the gear plugged in).
Depending on their phase, you often get about 0.1, maybe a bit more.

Even if it may look surprising, it's absolutely fine and it's even the main purposes of clocks, prevent drifts from one beat to another. It won't be noticed, as overall, you'll still get 120 bpm over 120 beats, and as all gear use the same clock, it will still be 100% fine.

That's also why 24 PPQN (pulses per quarter notes) is used by midi by default, in many gear, as it allow less freedom of drifting.

Now about clocks regularity, it really depends on the gear used, jitter free clocks aren't that common, and even tempi, announced as jitter free, still have a bit (using a scope, can't be heard :) ), but it's negligible for music.

So about how to set you clocks if you see fluctuations ? Let's imagine the fluctuation is huge, over 5cents, try to get the value in between, so it fluctuate from 119.8 to 120.2, perfectly centered.

hope this helps a bit ;)

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by witchonhorseback » Mon May 04, 2020 5:46 am

Thank you, klick! Yes, that is extremely informative 👍🏼

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by jwm » Mon May 04, 2020 9:48 am

witchonhorseback wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 4:41 pm
I used the SHMk2 and yes, this gives you 480. It was very hard to calibrate it precisely, though; it kept drifting a few tenths of a point in each direction. Is this normal?
yeah i had the drift too, i just tried to let go of the buttons whenever it zero'd in on 120 exactly

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by klick » Mon May 04, 2020 10:05 am

small idea, can the shmk2 go as low as 30 ? because if yes, you'll get a nice 120 bpm, quite better to calibrates without having to use so much precision ;)

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by jwm » Mon May 04, 2020 10:33 am

well ok wait, so should i be calibrating at x1 and trying to zero in on 480? or should i be calibrating at /4 and zeroing in on 120?

also according to the manual, it'll go down to 30..

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Mon May 04, 2020 11:13 am

I think in the end it is just a BPM meter - so I would calibrate it in the way how it is most usable for you. If you want to have it paired with the Stilson most of the time you could calibrate it so that the BPM numbers match. On the other hand you can read the actual BPM on the sequencer and it might not be necessary to compare both numbers all the time as long as you like the tempo and they are in sync. Personally I would calibrate it so that it shows the actual clock input in BPM, knowing that the Stilson emits a quarter clock and ignore it. If you just plug in an LFO you could read its tempo on the display then.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by witchonhorseback » Tue May 05, 2020 6:45 am

jwm wrote:
Mon May 04, 2020 10:33 am
well ok wait, so should i be calibrating at x1 and trying to zero in on 480? or should i be calibrating at /4 and zeroing in on 120?

also according to the manual, it'll go down to 30..
I did try that, and it went down to...30.1 😕

If I’m understanding this properly, though, 480 is fine...the goal is to make sure that, whatever is going into the Kermit is being more or less correctly interpreted. Right?

Also, so far, the oscillators are indeed responding more smoothly to envelopes!

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by klick » Tue May 05, 2020 8:21 am

I believe that the purpose of this, is to correct innacuracies between clocks.
But now, I start to realise, that the "clock" word is missleading.

Actually, it's a BPM counter, so very likely, you'll need to set the stillson to 120 BPM, but to use a gate output, and not a clock output.

If you have a sequence with one gate per beat, it should do the job perfectly.

Just tested with my eloquencer, it does perfectly the job like this, without having to deal with clocks subdivisors, at the end.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Juvenal » Wed May 06, 2020 6:22 am

Got a tiny 12hp space left to fill in my 6U rack and could use with some more modulation (I've got a Falistri / PNW at the moment). While I know Kermit can get a lot wilder, can it be used as a tweakable snappy envelope for a VCA in a pinch? How good is it at traditional envelope applications?

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Wed May 06, 2020 6:46 am

It depends - to me traditional envelope applications are referring to adjustable ADSR envelopes while Kermit offers single cycle waveforms as envelopes. Nothing is adjustable but length and amplitude. They are looping though and can be shorter than the loop length which is an interesting twist. And they are morphable within one bank. They can be snappy and you can easily draw your own in waveedit on a computer. They are a bit on the clicky side too though and sometimes you have to very carefully tweak them to reduce this. In my opinion this is something all IME MKIII modules have in common.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by itsmeaflo » Wed May 06, 2020 10:14 pm

How amenable is IME to feature requests? I am waiting on a delivery of my Kermit and want to use it as a FM modulator. I think it would be a neat idea to have an oscillator RATIO mode that multiplies or divides the pitch cv by an integer multiple for easy clean FM ratios.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by daphnid » Thu May 07, 2020 12:43 am

itsmeaflo wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 10:14 pm
How amenable is IME to feature requests? I am waiting on a delivery of my Kermit and want to use it as a FM modulator. I think it would be a neat idea to have an oscillator RATIO mode that multiplies or divides the pitch cv by an integer multiple for easy clean FM ratios.
I think the more emails they get about a given feature the more likely you are to see it in an update. For something marketed as a "super modulator" that works at audiorate that this would be great feature, esp with the proliferation of fm inputs being on almost every sound making module (including filters) that comes out now.

I'm hoping they make it so you can disable the screensaver or change the amount of time before it goes to sleep, I'm constantly having to wake it up during a session. And the screen is a bit glitchy, flickering back to the main page when changing the waveform knob. Could also very much use a file manager so you could use different file names and not have to take the card out and put a new wav on it and rename it every time you wanted to try a new wavetable. It's honestly a bigger hurdle than managing files via floppy on a 35 year old sampler. It's got so much character though, I can't stay mad at it.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Sun May 10, 2020 9:44 am

I am currently torn between this and a Quadrax and would love some opinions.

I make music similar to Rainforest Spiritual Enslavement , Vatican Shadow and hints of DJ Python, Low Jack etc...

I have a Zadar, Maths and PNW currently for modulation sources.

Drawn to Kermit as it seems to offer more unusual possibilities with its waves, but the Quadrax seems more direct.

Has anyone got opinions or experience of both?

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Sinamsis » Sun May 10, 2020 10:32 am

NaiveMelody wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:44 am
I am currently torn between this and a Quadrax and would love some opinions.

I make music similar to Rainforest Spiritual Enslavement , Vatican Shadow and hints of DJ Python, Low Jack etc...

I have a Zadar, Maths and PNW currently for modulation sources.

Drawn to Kermit as it seems to offer more unusual possibilities with its waves, but the Quadrax seems more direct.

Has anyone got opinions or experience of both?
I think the type of music your into is somewhat irrelevant here, more important is the function of these modules. I think we’ve discussed in detail the Kermit vs Zadar. I think there some similarities here in overall role these modules play. The Quadrax, or Quadra or other similar modules like Qubit Contour or Synthrotek Quadrangle are different. They’re all simpler EGs where you have direct access to different points of the envelope to patch more complex shapes. You’d be hard pressed to reach the complexity of the Kermit or Zadar. So.... basically you need to decide what’s more important. A simple set of envelopes with direct control of attack and decay without trigger outputs for EOR or EOC, etc. Or complex envelopes/LFOs. It’s kind of apples and oranges. Personally I do think it helps to have a simple set of envelopes where you can easily control attack, decay and response curve.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Sun May 10, 2020 10:56 am

NaiveMelody wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:44 am
I am currently torn between this and a Quadrax and would love some opinions.

I make music similar to Rainforest Spiritual Enslavement , Vatican Shadow and hints of DJ Python, Low Jack etc...

I have a Zadar, Maths and PNW currently for modulation sources.

Drawn to Kermit as it seems to offer more unusual possibilities with its waves, but the Quadrax seems more direct.

Has anyone got opinions or experience of both?
You already have three very distinct modulation sources. I would say when you often reach for a third Maths channel Quadrax would be a thing. Though if you hit the wall and need more Zadar maybe Kermit would help and give you nice audio wave tables on top plus being more flexible. But you also might look into something like the nonlinearcircuits chaos modules for a new class of modulation in your set up or expand what yo already have by mixing the CV flavours of your modulation sources with something like a matrix mixer.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Sun May 10, 2020 11:35 am

Sinamsis wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:32 am

I think the type of music your into is somewhat irrelevant here, more important is the function of these modules. I think we’ve discussed in detail the Kermit vs Zadar. I think there some similarities here in overall role these modules play. The Quadrax, or Quadra or other similar modules like Qubit Contour or Synthrotek Quadrangle are different. They’re all simpler EGs where you have direct access to different points of the envelope to patch more complex shapes. You’d be hard pressed to reach the complexity of the Kermit or Zadar. So.... basically you need to decide what’s more important. A simple set of envelopes with direct control of attack and decay without trigger outputs for EOR or EOC, etc. Or complex envelopes/LFOs. It’s kind of apples and oranges. Personally I do think it helps to have a simple set of envelopes where you can easily control attack, decay and response curve.
Thanks for the response. It's a helpful perspective, and I do see the advantage of having some simple envelopes to play with. I can use Maths for that, but having a dedicated set would be good. That said, I can achieve a lot with Zadar, and having something similar with regards LFOs would be very cool.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Sun May 10, 2020 11:44 am

Leverkusen wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:56 am
You already have three very distinct modulation sources. I would say when you often reach for a third Maths channel Quadrax would be a thing. Though if you hit the wall and need more Zadar maybe Kermit would help and give you nice audio wave tables on top plus being more flexible. But you also might look into something like the nonlinearcircuits chaos modules for a new class of modulation in your set up or expand what yo already have by mixing the CV flavours of your modulation sources with something like a matrix mixer.
What I'm really looking to get is interesting and useful modulations, so mixing CV sources makes a lot of sense.

Unfortunately, I find myself doing both of the above with regards Maths and Zadar which isn't helpful in decision making haha.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Sinamsis » Sun May 10, 2020 12:27 pm

NaiveMelody wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:35 am
Sinamsis wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 10:32 am

I think the type of music your into is somewhat irrelevant here, more important is the function of these modules. I think we’ve discussed in detail the Kermit vs Zadar. I think there some similarities here in overall role these modules play. The Quadrax, or Quadra or other similar modules like Qubit Contour or Synthrotek Quadrangle are different. They’re all simpler EGs where you have direct access to different points of the envelope to patch more complex shapes. You’d be hard pressed to reach the complexity of the Kermit or Zadar. So.... basically you need to decide what’s more important. A simple set of envelopes with direct control of attack and decay without trigger outputs for EOR or EOC, etc. Or complex envelopes/LFOs. It’s kind of apples and oranges. Personally I do think it helps to have a simple set of envelopes where you can easily control attack, decay and response curve.
Thanks for the response. It's a helpful perspective, and I do see the advantage of having some simple envelopes to play with. I can use Maths for that, but having a dedicated set would be good. That said, I can achieve a lot with Zadar, and having something similar with regards LFOs would be very cool.
Zadar can loop as well to create complex LFOs. I guess the unique aspects of Kermit (I've mentioned this before, so it might be worth looking back in case I forget stuff) is the ability to use as audio rate oscillator with reasonable accuracy (Zadar can do audio rates and track pretty well from what I've seen but I suspect Kermit does this more easily), tempo synced LFOs, wavetable import. It also does internal routing for cross modulation, don't recall if Zadar does this, which is embarrassing because I own one. Keep in mind oscillators A and B of Kermit have more flexibility (most modulation inputs) than A and B, where all channels of Zadar are equal. This is a moot point as you are not choosing between the two but rather possibly adding one to the other. I forgot you have Maths which does give you a pair of basic but great sounding AD envelopes that can cycle. If you wanted to supplement that in the future, you could add a Function or similar module. Quadra does have the benefit of saving space though! In the end you might choose to take a different path and replace Maths with a Quadrax and Triatt or whatever the equivalent is now (you do lose some things by doing this) and it might still allow you to have a Kermit and Zadar. Haha the options are limitless and really only you can decide. But I wouldn't say having Zadar excludes a Kermit, but there is some mild overlap in the bases covered. Personally I like really rhythmic droney stuff so a Zadar and a Kermit (or two mk III and a mk II in my case) suits me. But I'm also ridiculous.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Sun May 10, 2020 12:40 pm

Also keep in mind that you can pretty easily design your own wave shapes for Kermit - from simple AD to the most complex shapes and morphing between them brings you nearer towards the capabilities of Zadar and Quadra. It is a bit more work to set everything up though but then the only thing you are missing are EOC trigger outputs. The oscillators sound great btw and code scan is rad - could work like Fernow's screaming...

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Sun May 10, 2020 2:20 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:40 pm
Also keep in mind that you can pretty easily design your own wave shapes for Kermit - from simple AD to the most complex shapes and morphing between them brings you nearer towards the capabilities of Zadar and Quadra. It is a bit more work to set everything up though but then the only thing you are missing are EOC trigger outputs.
EOC would be cool, but the envelope chaining on Zadar would cover some of that kind of functionality for me for now. I could always use a comparator to approximate something if needed.
Leverkusen wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:40 pm
The oscillators sound great btw and code scan is rad - could work like Fernow's screaming...
This sounds massively up my street.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Sun May 10, 2020 2:25 pm

Sinamsis wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 12:27 pm

Zadar can loop as well to create complex LFOs. I guess the unique aspects of Kermit (I've mentioned this before, so it might be worth looking back in case I forget stuff) is the ability to use as audio rate oscillator with reasonable accuracy (Zadar can do audio rates and track pretty well from what I've seen but I suspect Kermit does this more easily), tempo synced LFOs, wavetable import. It also does internal routing for cross modulation, don't recall if Zadar does this, which is embarrassing because I own one. Keep in mind oscillators A and B of Kermit have more flexibility (most modulation inputs) than A and B, where all channels of Zadar are equal. This is a moot point as you are not choosing between the two but rather possibly adding one to the other. I forgot you have Maths which does give you a pair of basic but great sounding AD envelopes that can cycle. If you wanted to supplement that in the future, you could add a Function or similar module. Quadra does have the benefit of saving space though! In the end you might choose to take a different path and replace Maths with a Quadrax and Triatt or whatever the equivalent is now (you do lose some things by doing this) and it might still allow you to have a Kermit and Zadar. Haha the options are limitless and really only you can decide. But I wouldn't say having Zadar excludes a Kermit, but there is some mild overlap in the bases covered. Personally I like really rhythmic droney stuff so a Zadar and a Kermit (or two mk III and a mk II in my case) suits me. But I'm also ridiculous.
I've read a few things you've written comparing them - all really useful info.

It feels like Kermit will give some more unique / creative possibilities, whereas Quadrax will give me useful utilities.

I get choice paralysis so bad, and kind of feel I need everything haha.

Rhythmic and droney sounds good! I think I fall more on the rhythmic than droney side at the moment, but take elements from both.

Three Kermits is a pretty big advert for them haha.

Isn't being ridiculous the MO in modular?

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by brianobush » Sun May 10, 2020 11:55 pm

NaiveMelody wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 9:44 am
...

Drawn to Kermit as it seems to offer more unusual possibilities with its waves, but the Quadrax seems more direct.

Has anyone got opinions or experience of both?

I have both Quadrax and Kermit mk3. They occupy very different roles in my setup. Quadrax is more used in generic AD envelopes, whereas Kermit is more for esoteric modulation (and also another oscillator). Of course, that is just my usage.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Mon May 11, 2020 12:13 am

brianobush wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:55 pm
I have both Quadrax and Kermit mk3. They occupy very different roles in my setup. Quadrax is more used in generic AD envelopes, whereas Kermit is more for esoteric modulation (and also another oscillator). Of course, that is just my usage.
Do you find yourself reaching for Quadrax more based on that usage? Is it your only AD?

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by brianobush » Mon May 11, 2020 1:48 am

NaiveMelody wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 12:13 am
brianobush wrote:
Sun May 10, 2020 11:55 pm
I have both Quadrax and Kermit mk3. They occupy very different roles in my setup. Quadrax is more used in generic AD envelopes, whereas Kermit is more for esoteric modulation (and also another oscillator). Of course, that is just my usage.
Do you find yourself reaching for Quadrax more based on that usage? Is it your only AD?
Both modules are new to me, but the interface on Quadrax is very simple and I don't need the manual. Kermit has many crossmod options that are a bit complicated. I would reach for Quadrax if I need a quick envelope. I typically reach for Kermit if I am hunting for a unique sound.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by NaiveMelody » Mon May 11, 2020 2:15 am

brianobush wrote:
Mon May 11, 2020 1:48 am

Both modules are new to me, but the interface on Quadrax is very simple and I don't need the manual. Kermit has many crossmod options that are a bit complicated. I would reach for Quadrax if I need a quick envelope. I typically reach for Kermit if I am hunting for a unique sound.
Got you. Do you have Maths or anything like that for AD too?

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