Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Joe., lisa, luketeaford, Kent

Post Reply
User avatar
coolshirtdotjpg
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1400
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: Santa Cruz, California

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:47 pm

KSS wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 9:37 pm
coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:35 am
...Arp copied Moog (and were sued for it)...
Yes, ARP copied the ladder filter in their 1006 module for the 2500. But you left out the fact that moog copied ARP's patented 2 voice KBD. And you fell victim to the myth that either one sued the other over this. They both recognized their own fault and turned the other cheek.
martimous wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 12:20 pm
ARP did most certainly not copy Moog. And they were not sued by Moog. They made a copy of a Moog ladder filter to include on a synth where almost every other design decision was as different from Moog as they could make it.
see above.

While we at it, ARP is also claimed to have put their 4012 VCF for the 2600 in epoxy to hide that they were again using the moog patented ladder filter.
That was in 1971. However, in 1970 they released this module shown below. Do you really think that a year later -and after the 'conversation' describef above, that they would fwwl any need to hide that the 4012 was a moog circuit? No. They covered their circuits in epoxy for thermal issues and also because that was standard practice for those kind of modules at the time. You can see this in all the discrete OpAmps still found in studio racks.

Let's not keep these old myths alive any longer.

Here's the 1006 filter/VCA module. Can you see the ladder filter?
Sure looks like they made a huge effort to cover it up, and keep moog from noticing :sarcasm:
Boy, this really sounds like something we should be caring about. I’m really glad I only check this thread once every 20 pages or so...
New video for my track
Opening The Portal

22tape
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1011
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:59 pm
Location: Yer mammy's dusty vibraphone

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 22tape » Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:33 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:01 am
If Flying Lotus backs up Behringer even during the Kirn nonsense, I might have to convert to being a Behringer.
:lol:

Divinital_
Common Wiggler
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Divinital_ » Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:00 pm

22tape wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:33 pm
Divinital_ wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 8:01 am
If Flying Lotus backs up Behringer even during the Kirn nonsense, I might have to convert to being a Behringer.
:lol:
Are you a Behringer Bro?

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2114
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:25 pm

coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:45 pm
This of course explains the arp clone in eurorack “The Post Lawsuit Filter” made from the redesign Arp made after they were threatened with a lawsuit.
No, it doesn't.That was a mistake -or marketing choice- made by STG. What part of there was no lawsuit is so hard for you to understand?
coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:47 pm
Boy, this really sounds like something we should be caring about. I’m really glad I only check this thread once every 20 pages or so...
Why should we care? In a thread about practices, ethics and morals, it's pretty on-topic.

trtlmnky
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:38 pm
Location: New England

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by trtlmnky » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:53 pm

Just to throw in my two cents as a nobody 50 pages deep into the thread and probably just repeating what people with more clout than I have said.

Behringer is mostly fine. They're not infringing on any patents, they're not trying to pass off these designs as their own. An affordable System 100 soundalike? Good, get it done yesterday. That modular system is the stuff of legend and building a "real" one is laughably unaffordable in no small part because like 75% of the physically extant Roland modules are imbedded in Hans Zimmer's wall, and that Roland has said they have no interest in "chasing the ghost" of old analog hardware.

Honestly what Moog is doing with their modular gear is way, way, way worse to my sensibilities. Slinging the System-35 and IIIp for 35k (a solid four grand higher than median annual US salary pre-tax). Seriously, wtf. The only thing they have on offer there is the brand. The IIIp especially. Voiced by ten unijunction oscillators with no tempco on circuitry so old it's obsoletion apparently became obsolete. The System-35 isn't much better, the 921's are "fully featured" and add tempco but everyone will still say they don't sound as good despite being an identical core to the 901, just with sliiiiiightly lower output volume. The clincher, apparently. Oh, and yeah, sink triggers. Because that's helpful.

Now THAT'S offensive. You could get an infinitely better dotcom system with like 3x the functionality, waaaaay better core sound with modern amenities like a more stable power supply voltage for one, for less than half the price.

Or you can get a tiny little Behringer version for arguably, the price the circuits themselves are probably worth compared to the near boundless insanity out there in the euro format.

The ookie thing with Behringer is that the prices aren't lowlowlow because of the fair wage afforded to Chinese labor, so something to chew on. The guy they've employed to look over shoulders on the factory floor to make sure they actually use the matched transistor pairs probably comes away with a solid payday though.

Sorry this has been chewing at the back of my head for months since I stumbled on an old blurb of Alessandro Cortini having the nerve to say Sputnik Modular "ripped off" Buchla's designs, like... Eff off bro. At that threshold you best be writing rage mail to Samsung, Sony, Vizio et cetera for not paying enough tribute to Philo Farnsworth lest I begin to think you're full of crap. Even Buchla forgot about his old circuits. They also cost 2 grand a piece and this is just basic supply and demand. They're not forgeries, it's made pretty explicit that these are not made by their respective progenitors.

This stuff just bugs me. I personally wish there was a little more advancement/refinement of existing concepts, even just subtle things like what Roger Arrick did with the 960. But people seem to really like their straight clones... And most people don't have like 5 figures to drop on ancient tech just because some things sound better when they're objectively inferior to other options.

User avatar
Flounderguts
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:56 pm
Location: SLC

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm

Good 4th post. Keep it up.
----------------------

Flounderguts

Divinital_
Common Wiggler
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Divinital_ » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:37 pm

Flounderguts wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm
Good 4th post. Keep it up.
Mr. Behringer Shillington, sire extraordinaire

*tips fedora*

M'Behringer.

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2114
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:06 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:37 pm
Flounderguts wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm
Good 4th post. Keep it up.
Mr. Behringer Shillington, sire extraordinaire

*tips fedora*

M'Behringer.
+1

francoprussian
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 427
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:54 am

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by francoprussian » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:40 am

this thread is so internet

User avatar
Flounderguts
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 397
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:56 pm
Location: SLC

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:37 pm
Flounderguts wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm
Good 4th post. Keep it up.
Mr. Behringer Shillington, sire extraordinaire

*tips fedora*

M'Behringer.
What, you don't like to encourage noobs to express their opinion? While I *DO* agree with most of what was said in that post, I wasn't actually endorsing the poster's opinion, just that it was good to be an eloquent participant.

To be a shill, I would have to be associated with Behringer in some way, or maybe on a mission to get people to like Behringer. I simply do not have any beef with the brand, or it's practices. That may change in the future.

Solid troll, though. Good job.
----------------------

Flounderguts

Divinital_
Common Wiggler
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:15 am

Flounderguts wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 am
Divinital_ wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:37 pm
Flounderguts wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm
Good 4th post. Keep it up.
Mr. Behringer Shillington, sire extraordinaire

*tips fedora*

M'Behringer.
What, you don't like to encourage noobs to express their opinion? While I *DO* agree with most of what was said in that post, I wasn't actually endorsing the poster's opinion, just that it was good to be an eloquent participant.

To be a shill, I would have to be associated with Behringer in some way, or maybe on a mission to get people to like Behringer. I simply do not have any beef with the brand, or it's practices. That may change in the future.

Solid troll, though. Good job.
thx

User avatar
bitflip
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 889
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:19 pm
Location: in the series of tubes

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by bitflip » Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:59 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:15 am
Flounderguts wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:49 am
Divinital_ wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:37 pm
Flounderguts wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:40 pm
Good 4th post. Keep it up.
Mr. Behringer Shillington, sire extraordinaire

*tips fedora*

M'Behringer.
What, you don't like to encourage noobs to express their opinion? While I *DO* agree with most of what was said in that post, I wasn't actually endorsing the poster's opinion, just that it was good to be an eloquent participant.

To be a shill, I would have to be associated with Behringer in some way, or maybe on a mission to get people to like Behringer. I simply do not have any beef with the brand, or it's practices. That may change in the future.

Solid troll, though. Good job.
thx
I'll just leave this right here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=226692 :hmm:

Divinital_
Common Wiggler
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Divinital_ » Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:44 am

:yay:

I deleted my account to a) spend less time here and b) deal less with toxic, personally attacking fools.


However, I preordered an ARP 2600 and needed a place to discuss it so here I am, but with an underscore.

User avatar
Voltcontrol
Ravey Dave
Posts: 879
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:31 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Voltcontrol » Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:41 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:44 am
:yay:

I deleted my account to a) spend less time here and b) deal less with toxic, personally attacking fools.


However, I preordered an ARP 2600 and needed a place to discuss it so here I am, but with an underscore.
What, you're not a proud heretic who went for the Behringer 2600? Whats a purist like you doing in a thread like this? :hihi: :hihi: :party:
Last edited by Voltcontrol on Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Divinital_
Common Wiggler
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Divinital_ » Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:56 am

Voltcontrol wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 5:41 am
Divinital_ wrote:
Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:44 am
:yay:

I deleted my account to a) spend less time here and b) deal less with toxic, personally attacking fools.


However, I preordered an ARP 2600 and needed a place to discuss it so here I am, but with an underscore.
What, you're not a proud heretic went for the Behringer 2600? Whats a purist like you doing in a thread like this? :hihi: :hihi: :party:
I'm officially a convert, a new Behringer Bro has emerged.

User avatar
Orange
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 382
Joined: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:57 pm
Location: The Hague - Holland

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Orange » Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:54 am

So, no politics allowed on MW........let’s call it ’practices, ethics and morals’ :mrgreen:

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Shledge » Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:08 am

It becomes "politics" if it's something they disagree with.

To keep it relevant, behringer still is a shit company. They make good synths, but have really shitty practices.

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2114
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:29 pm

Shledge wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:08 am
They make -some- good synths,
Now it rings true.

User avatar
3hands
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:36 pm
Location: Ottawa Ontario

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:45 pm

Shledge wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:08 am
It becomes "politics" if it's something they disagree with.

To keep it relevant, behringer still is a shit company. They make good synths, but have really shitty practices.

But they're so much fun!
Gum is fun, but not on a cat.

My minds an art gallery.

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Shledge » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:00 am

KSS wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 8:29 pm
Shledge wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:08 am
They make -some- good synths,
Now it rings true.
You still on about those jacks?

No broken jacks on my 2+ year old boog!

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Shledge » Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:03 am

3hands wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 9:45 pm
Shledge wrote:
Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:08 am
It becomes "politics" if it's something they disagree with.

To keep it relevant, behringer still is a shit company. They make good synths, but have really shitty practices.

But they're so much fun!
I like my boog, honestly think it's a great little synth - also have their x32 rack mixer and that's really good too.

That said, the recent actions they've took against journalists have ensured I'll never buy anything from behringer again, sadly. They were on a winning streak and decided to fuck it up because Uli is an egotistical manchild.

User avatar
VZvision
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 421
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:10 am

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by VZvision » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:07 pm

I made it to page 16...I have to say this thread is a dumpster fire. :deadbanana:

I feel like a bit of my life force was lost in even making it to page 16...and worse....the thought of other people’s life force getting zapped when we all probably need it the most during Earth lockdown adds to the dumpster fire.

And worse...I’ve added to the dumpster fire by writing this (it’s written now so might as well submit it)

The only info I found genuinely redeeming:

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2020/01/16/t ... -of-beefs/

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/09/15/c ... echnology/

As you were.
Last edited by VZvision on Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KSS
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2114
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:28 am

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by KSS » Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:15 pm

Shledge wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 3:00 am
You still on about those jacks?

No broken jacks on my 2+ year old boog!
I don't recall being against their jacks. Except that they're ugly to me. Don't think I've ever said that before, though.

No. My comment was about the crappy sequencer and utter failure to replicate core sounds on some of their clone synths. While allowing and accepting that some of their synths are pretty good.

User avatar
3hands
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 901
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:36 pm
Location: Ottawa Ontario

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:57 pm

VZvision wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:07 pm
I made it to page 16...I have to say this thread is a dumpster fire. :deadbanana:

I feel like a bit of my life force was lost in even making it to page 16...and worse....the thought of other people’s life force getting zapped when we all probably need it the most during Earth lockdown adds to the dumpster fire.

And worse...I’ve added to the dumpster fire by writing this (it’s written now so might as well submit it)

The only info I found genuinely redeeming:

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2020/01/16/t ... -of-beefs/

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/09/15/c ... echnology/

As you were.

With Covid happening, I use this thread as my daily source of humour. So keep it up everyone! 200 pages? Anddddd go..
Gum is fun, but not on a cat.

My minds an art gallery.

User avatar
UltraViolet
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 555
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:10 pm
Location: Edinburg, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by UltraViolet » Thu Apr 30, 2020 1:35 pm

VZvision wrote:
Sun Apr 26, 2020 5:07 pm
I made it to page 16...I have to say this thread is a dumpster fire. :deadbanana:
More like a dumpster inferno, but hey its Behringer, everyone's favorite to dump on.

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”