Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

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seta666
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Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by seta666 » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 pm

I am thinking of replacing my kermit with a a different lfo, I do not really need the wavetable osc part of it, I have enough voices and I can use disting mk4 as a wavetable osc if I feel like it. 10hp just for 2 lfos is too much HP for me.

I would also like to add disting midi breakout (4hp) but I can mount that on the plate holding korg SQ-1 ( which sometimes I use as an lfo too)

I quite like the 4ms Quad Pingable LFO, but at 12hp I find it too big and I would need to remove more modules and further rethink the case. Batumi would fit though, I do not want menu diving modules like Xaoc Zadar, with disting mk4 I have enough of that.

Both Modbox and Pons asinorum look nice at 6hp, a 6hp module would allow me to add something extra, maybe a wavefolder or something I am still missing.

I would like to get most of this features:
- 2 lfos minimum
- Clock sync with Independent clock divisions
- LFO reset ( not availabke in kermit)
- One shot env mode ( not available in kermit)
- Maybe other features I am missing now?
- Up to 10hp maximum for 4 lfos, smaller for 2

Some of this things I can already do with maths, but I would like to free it from simple Env/lfo duties

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nios
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by nios » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:08 pm

Quite incidentally, the new Kermit (mkIII) just came out and is 4 LFOs in 12hp. In addition to LFOs/oscillators it also has various types of random/S&H, can do envelopes and users can upload wavetables via SD card. It's also got an internal mod matrix and clock generator; it's magnificent IMO.

For the densest clusters of direct-access LFOs the common go-to solutions are Xaoc Batumi (4 in 10hp) or Mutable Instruments Stages (6 in 14hp). Batumi is a pure LFO machine, simplistic (with expert firmware available) but very pleasant to use. Stages is capable of other things in addition to LFOs (envelopes etc) and as a result each channel is reduced in footprint, but they're still perfectly fine for LFO duty.

The densest LFO solutions would be micro ornament and crime (4 in 8hp) or Pamela's New Workout (8 in 8hp), or Instruo/Divkid Ochd (8 in 4hp!). While O&C and Pam's need to be programmed in behind menus, their LFO modes are exceedingly excellent, far more capable than the usual and these modules also offer a ton of other options to boot. Lastly Ochd is another new module, close to the densest possible. However it provides simplified LFOs as a result, only triangle at fixed rates (all controlled by a master rate knob), but can single-handedly animate a system and if anything, opens up design space for fancier LFOs to do their thing. Your limitations are so very specific that it seems Batumi or Ochd would be about what'd match, but if you don't have a Pam's or O&C I'd seriously give those a look.

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starthief
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by starthief » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:25 pm

I sold my Kermit once, and then I missed it and had to have another one. It's got a unique sound, and even at LFO rates cross-AMing it works nicely.

I've got an E352, two Stages, and Maths (and Bitwig Grid) and would not let go of my Kermit again.

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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by jwm » Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:47 pm

batumi is basically the way to go here (as a batumi user, imo)

another idea, is two eowave zone bf's — 4 variable wave lfos w/ sync in 10 hp

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dooj88
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by dooj88 » Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:55 pm

starthief wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:25 pm
I sold my Kermit once, and then I missed it and had to have another one. It's got a unique sound, and even at LFO rates cross-AMing it works nicely.

I've got an E352, two Stages, and Maths (and Bitwig Grid) and would not let go of my Kermit again.
yeah kermit's strengths lie in the cross modulation. using the A LFO in green/green and the bottom in red/orange can result in some nice hats on some of the noisers wavetables - can get some pitched cymbal sounds sending in some cv to offset the wavetable position further.

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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by fileandplot » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:23 am

I pretty much dedicate Klavis Twin Waves to LFO duty. That and an Och’d do
a lot in a small space.

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muleskinner
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by muleskinner » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:08 am

nios wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:08 pm
The densest LFO solutions would be micro ornament and crime (4 in 8hp)
Can you get 4 LFOs out of the O_C?

The LFO mode is quadrature only so they are all synced in some way, you can do it with the Piqued app but they're unipolar only (and a bit of a ballache to set up).

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great for this type of modulation and I have just replaced my Batumi for one but if there's a way to get four, free-running bipolar LFOs that I've missed then I'm all ears!

FWIW I didn't dig Batumi so much. You need Poti to make the most of it and even then I found the fact that you could only use one 'assign' waveform across all channels annoying. Plus it didn't seem to remember the 'zoom' mode settings after being turned off. And 'sync' didn't sync phase, just rate, plus the UI for more complex stuff in the 'zoom' mode is obtuse and it's easy to make mistakes. Everyone else loves it though so I'm very much in the minority!
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by Foghorn » Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:54 am

There are a lot of 4hp LFOs, or were at one time.
Frequency central waverunner, Synthrotek VCLFO, Ladik has a bunch including several Harmonics LFOs which allow you to add harmonics to the waveform plus an uncertain amplitude LFO :hmm: :hmm: I'm not exactly sure about that one.
I like using a Sync Iter as LFO but it is NLA, and not exactly an LFO but take a look at Clep Diaz.
I do not like Batumi because of the UI mostly but Modbox, a dual LFO, is really cool because of the noise and S&H it has plus one LFO is 3 phase output and the other lets you screw with the waveshape.
I'm not sure what you don't like about Kermit.
And I guess I need to explore LFOs on my O & C plus mess with Rubicon as an LFO
Plus Mordax data is 3 LFOs but has many other uses.
Oh well, good luck
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seta666
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by seta666 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:33 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions, I will look into them with no hurries, I am feed up of buying and selling like crazy. Batumi as have been said needs poti to get the most out of it (13HP) and making you choose between reset or sync for all LFOs is enough for me not to want it.

As I said 2 LFOs would be enough and I do not mind if the wave forms are simple, and can twist them later on. But sync, reset and one cycle/env mode are importan features for me.

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nios
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by nios » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:38 pm

muleskinner wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:08 am
nios wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 2:08 pm
The densest LFO solutions would be micro ornament and crime (4 in 8hp)
Can you get 4 LFOs out of the O_C?
Yeah I was referring to Piqued. Unipolar isn't a big deal to me, but I can definitely see it being one if people don't have or want to keep dedicated attenuverters on-tap to make those LFOs work for any module. Might as well mention Stages LFOs are uni as well.

Personally I like Piqued (maybe my fav mode along with Low-Rents) as it's capable of many complicated/custom LFO or Env shapes, it's actually super-impressive once you dig into it - not unlike a reduced/baby version of Control Forge, only CF's one glaring lacking is fixed here since we have four of them. To make the most of it takes some time, but it's worth it I think.

seta666
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by seta666 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:46 pm

Foghorn wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:54 am
I'm not sure what you don't like about Kermit.
Well, more than not liking it is that I find 10HP for 2 lfos is too much, specially when they have not reset or one cycle mode. Agree that you can get pretty wild sounds from it but I am not that interested in the VCO part of it. I want a fully featured LFO (Ok, one cycle mode takes you into envelope territory) rather than a LFO that can act as a VCO .

The only one that seems to do all this things but but 12HP is 4MS QUAD PINGABLE LFO, Reset, sync, Env...I wish they made a 2LFO version

seta666
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by seta666 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:22 pm

What about MI Peaks? (Edit: piqued too..4HP)
2 sync lfo, reset lfo, env and even drum synth?¿?

At 8hp I quite like it
Last edited by seta666 on Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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muleskinner
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by muleskinner » Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:37 am

nios wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:38 pm
Personally I like Piqued (maybe my fav mode along with Low-Rents) as it's capable of many complicated/custom LFO or Env shapes, it's actually super-impressive once you dig into it - not unlike a reduced/baby version of Control Forge, only CF's one glaring lacking is fixed here since we have four of them. To make the most of it takes some time, but it's worth it I think.
This is pretty much where I have landed on my personal LFO search and why I have bought a second O_C to replace my Batumi. I'm not that bothered by bi-polar either, but I thought it worth mentioning as many people consider that important.

It's a 'head' decision at the moment though, I haven't spent enough time with Piqued to judge whether I made the right choice. From my initial time with it the main thing it seems to be lacking is a simple way of adjusting the 'LFO' frequency, looks like you have to do that by adjusting the attack and decay times separately which is kind of a ballache - or rig an offset up to the CV in.

Would be good if that segment select screen also had an 'all' option to scale the duration of all segments at once.
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Currently Selling (UK): Akemie's Taiko, Batumi, Samara

seta666
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Re: Lfo suggestions to replace kermit

Post by seta666 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:43 am

I have just received my MI Peaks, took a bit long with all this covid19 thing...

It is what I was looking for, the LFO mode can reset which is great for modulating drums, having lots of fun using it with DFAM. Came with Dead Man's Catch v0.7 ...so many modes, is like having another Disting mk4, but will concentrate on the standard modes for now.

I am noit saying is better than Kermit,just suits my needs better.

Thanks all for your help :tu:

EDIT: at the end I removed SQ1 from the case and I will keep kermit too..

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