Behringer Roland System 100M clone

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Divinital

Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by Divinital » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:03 pm

ATW wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:57 pm
also a good thing for listeners out there who will be able to benefit from far more unique instrumentation & sound design possibilities that are more widely available
This is such a bizarre, consumerist viewpoint, as though physical gear makes the musician or suddenly amplifies their ability to inherently make some sort of unique timbres.

"Chet Atkins was in a Nashville studio warming up for a session with his Gretsch. A young technician came into the studio and stood watching open-mouthed until Chet finished. “Gee, Mr Atkins, that guitar sure sounds fabulous!” Chet placed the guitar on its stand, smiled at the tech and said, “Well, son, how does it sound now?” "

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by Arneb » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:22 pm

galaxie wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:58 am
IMHO the market of DIY utiliy modules is likely to suffer most. The current Eurorack market is a bit too crowded with average products and now Behringer comes to cleaning.
Utilities aren't exactly an area where people are lining up for '80s vintage clones. What you need to win on the utility market is creativity, a good feel for how people use their racks, and clever UX design - not qualities I'd associate with Behringer, the Neutron's utility UX design for instance isn't great.

Edit: Also, customer psychology. Since utilities are cheaper than VCOs or VCFs in general, the absolute price differences are smaller for the former, so people are less concerned about their price tag.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by blw » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:32 pm

Which of you is going to be the nerd who creates a Hans Zimmer tribute system?
E60E6872-38F3-4AC5-969E-5342DD499C06.jpeg
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by luchog » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:48 pm

While having System 100 stuff would be fun, no way I'm touching the Behringer clones. For starters, I'd be seriously worried about the build quality. Uli has a long history of dumping cheaply-made junk on the market that just doesn't hold up to serious use, and often has problems right out of the box; not to mention the lackluster support they give for their products. Little better than toys, not gear for the serious musician.

Plus, I don't see a good reason to give any more of my money to multi-million-dollar megacorps than I absolutely have to; particularly one that has such a well-documented history of stealing product designs, and trying to silence critics with SLAPP suits. Not when there are so many better quality alternatives available at an only-moderately-higher price point (Doepfer, Ladik, EMW, etc).

I guess I'm just not as prone to the nostalgia factor as others seem to be.
Divinital wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:03 pm
ATW wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:57 pm
also a good thing for listeners out there who will be able to benefit from far more unique instrumentation & sound design possibilities that are more widely available
This is such a bizarre, consumerist viewpoint, as though physical gear makes the musician or suddenly amplifies their ability to inherently make some sort of unique timbres.

"Chet Atkins was in a Nashville studio warming up for a session with his Gretsch. A young technician came into the studio and stood watching open-mouthed until Chet finished. “Gee, Mr Atkins, that guitar sure sounds fabulous!” Chet placed the guitar on its stand, smiled at the tech and said, “Well, son, how does it sound now?” "
But just imagine how good he still would have sounded if the guitar had had fried electronics, a warped neck, and tuners that kept slipping while he was playing.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by nios » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm

This format really shines for the completeness, creativity and originality going into synthesis all at once - the ability to take some vintage clone filter/osc and combine it with original work or an outright weird idea that doesn't exist anywhere else, and so on. So far Behringer has proved to be a tiny bit novel/creative like with the Neutron, but not really-really innovative, like the Poly D is a mishmash of spare parts, a frankenstein of established work. So I'd expect maybe they'll easily belt out a lot of variants to this lineup to fit tastes.

These modules, while tempting for being cheap, to me look more like an impulse buy, something I'd get a couple of to unwisely fill in a big gap in a new row on my system. The modules are just too big for what they do, especially in an age where compactness is valued, where quad+ versions of modules packed into the same space as a single iteration would have been 10-15 years ago. For vintage appeal maybe I'd fill up a Mantis with these and just keep it standalone because I like the System 100M, but not because I actually-need anything on offer here.

However for people just getting into modular, they will look at these things, do some calculations and quickly either decide a Neutron or Model D or whatever works perfectly fine for them, or they're cool spending twice+ as much to make something functionally-similar out of the big B's (actual) Euro modules. If it's the latter, it's possibly because they took a look at the breadth of the market and would be fine paying typical Euro prices for a handful of the all-star modules of the format backed up in core functionality by Bystem 100M. So in that context it could translate to residual interest picking up for more modern/unique/West Coast things the format enjoys.
Last edited by nios on Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by monoscan » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm

blw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 am
Two iterations of the System 100m in Euro now, and neither looks any fun to use to me. All those short sliders and mini pots to match the panel layouts just don't look inviting to play.
Can you show me the first iteration of the 100m?

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by seta666 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:14 pm

luchog wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:48 pm
While having System 100 stuff would be fun, no way I'm touching the Behringer clones. For starters, I'd be seriously worried about the build quality. Uli has a long history of dumping cheaply-made junk on the market that just doesn't hold up to serious use, and often has problems right out of the box; not to mention the lackluster support they give for their products. Little better than toys, not gear for the serious musician.

Plus, I don't see a good reason to give any more of my money to multi-million-dollar megacorps than I absolutely have to; particularly one that has such a well-documented history of stealing product designs, and trying to silence critics with SLAPP suits. Not when there are so many better quality alternatives available at an only-moderately-higher price point (Doepfer, Ladik, EMW, etc).

I guess I'm just not as prone to the nostalgia factor as others seem to be.
Behringer quality is more than fine, I had Neutron and build quality was better than some other modules I own.

Big companies stealing from smaller ones? Sure, like Apple, Microsoft and many more. And if they can not steal from you they will buy you out of business.

I personally preffer to have behringer stuff in my rack than anything with Roland logo on it, but that may just be me.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by Be Sandy? » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:19 pm

Cross posting this from some other Behringer threads.
Let's keep posts in this thread about the equipment being discussed.
If you wish to discuss the morals and ethics of musical equipment and its manufacturers there's a thread for that here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=226390

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by luchog » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:32 pm

Deleted, not really appropriate for this thread, moved it to the one linked above.
Last edited by luchog on Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by blw » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 pm

monoscan wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm
blw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 am
Two iterations of the System 100m in Euro now, and neither looks any fun to use to me. All those short sliders and mini pots to match the panel layouts just don't look inviting to play.
Can you show me the first iteration of the 100m?
Roland System 500

peripatitis

Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by peripatitis » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:46 pm

Be Sandy? wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:19 pm
Cross posting this from some other Behringer threads.
Let's keep posts in this thread about the equipment being discussed.
If you wish to discuss the morals and ethics of musical equipment and its manufacturers there's a thread for that here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=226390
You can't separate the two, that is the whole point for anyone discussing morals.
Having a separate thread would be simply hypocritical.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by thispoison » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:58 pm

The point is that we shouldn't be discussing morals?
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by sanders » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:06 pm

It was only a matter of time before someone did this, no? There’s only so long that the market is gonna support an entire industry of manufactures selling largely public domain designs, with marked up retail purchased components and hand assembly, without threat of competition.

At a certain threshold of popularity, bigger companies get interested in a piece of the market. Bigger companies with greater manufacturing and distribution resources will inevitably make cheaper mass produced products for a market that can meet the demand.

This is what the Roland System 100m was in the first place, no? It was a streamlined, assembly-line, updated mass-market take on the previously custom engineered Moog Modular.

It’s not a perfect analogy, but the parallels are pretty strong.

The way I see it, at least it’s being driven by a guy who obviously loves and reveres the instruments he’s copying. He doesn’t have to make them full sized, robust, with precise attention to accuracy and respect for the original designs. They would have sold with just the outward appearance of authenticity, as Roland does.

That’s my 2 cents.
Last edited by sanders on Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by thispoison » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:23 pm

sanders wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:06 pm
It was only a matter of time before someone did this, no? There’s only so long that the market is gonna support an entire industry of manufactures selling largely public domain designs, with marked up retail purchased components and hand assembly.

At a certain threshold of popularity, bigger companies are gonna get interested in a piece of the market. Bigger companies with greater manufacturing and distribution resources will inevitably make cheaper mass produced products for a market that can meet the demand.

This is what the Roland System 100m was in the first place, no? It was a streamlined, assembly-line, updated mass-market take on the previously custom engineered Moog Modular.

It’s not a perfect analogy, but the parallels are pretty strong.

The way I see it, at least it’s being driven by a guy who obviously loves and reveres the instruments he’s copying. He doesn’t have to make them full sized, robust, with precise attention to accuracy and respect for the original designs. They would have sold with just the outward appearance of authenticity, as Roland does.

That’s my 2 cents.
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by Analog Prophet » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:35 pm

As far as I can hear at Behringer’s trailer it not only looks like a Roland System 100m but also sounds like Roland System 100m - looks like a cost effective opportunity to expand my Roland System 100m D-set with a number of modules. Hope it works together...
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by joem » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:54 pm

I'm really confused. Didn't they announce this stuff already like 2 years ago? And we have other long debate-riddled threads all about this already? Why do we need another thread?

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by ym2612 » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:56 pm

😴

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by ATW » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Divinital wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:03 pm
ATW wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:57 pm
also a good thing for listeners out there who will be able to benefit from far more unique instrumentation & sound design possibilities that are more widely available
This is such a bizarre, consumerist viewpoint, as though physical gear makes the musician or suddenly amplifies their ability to inherently make some sort of unique timbres.

"Chet Atkins was in a Nashville studio warming up for a session with his Gretsch. A young technician came into the studio and stood watching open-mouthed until Chet finished. “Gee, Mr Atkins, that guitar sure sounds fabulous!” Chet placed the guitar on its stand, smiled at the tech and said, “Well, son, how does it sound now?” "
Hmm, maybe the point was missed. I'm talking about *access*. Less interested in the <yawn> notion of 'the talented musician' — modular is appealing in part *because* you don't need traditional musical talent to create timbres. Talent is overrated.

For people interested in making sounds, access to a more affordable way to build a custom modular synth opens up possibilities. It's *possible* a lot of it will be unlistenable garbage (at first). There are millions of songs on Spotify with zero listens. Heard of http://forgotify.com/ ?

Obviously gear doesn't make the musician. Though a cheap (in the day) 303 *did* inherently make some interesting timbres. I'm happy there's going to be an army of new-to-modular folks clanging away w/ cheap modular setups. Some of them will stay at it & get better.

And to your point, not everyone exploring modular is even interested in musicianship. I am, and I know that (like anything worthwhile) there's a long learning curve in both theory & practice.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by medium Rob » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:45 pm

joem wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:54 pm
I'm really confused. Didn't they announce this stuff already like 2 years ago? And we have other long debate-riddled threads all about this already? Why do we need another thread?
seems like par for the course (?) ... it doesn't seem like many use the search function before creating threads.. there are literally dozens of duplicate (possibly hundreds, more or less) threads cluttering the eurorack forum

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by Fabong » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:49 pm

Good news, though I probably won't get any, I'm happy with my Doepfer and Ladik modules for now. I would say they're a bit wide for my tastes.
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by everydaycurry » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:22 pm

luchog wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:48 pm
While having System 100 stuff would be fun, no way I'm touching the Behringer clones. For starters, I'd be seriously worried about the build quality. Uli has a long history of dumping cheaply-made junk on the market that just doesn't hold up to serious use, and often has problems right out of the box; not to mention the lackluster support they give for their products. Little better than toys, not gear for the serious musician.
The Deepmind, Neutron, D and others have been out for quite a while and they're not spontaneously falling apart. The biggest issues with many of their 'clones' have been MIDI related - no such issues here.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by 3hands » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:25 pm

Edit...

I’m not even going to touch this.
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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by stainers » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:36 pm

Any word on whether these use the CV and gate busses to have normaling like the original?
I may have missed the detail as I’m flying around, but that’s definitely one of the things that makes the original system an interesting instrument in its own right.

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by monoscan » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:57 pm

blw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 pm
monoscan wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm
blw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 am
Two iterations of the System 100m in Euro now, and neither looks any fun to use to me. All those short sliders and mini pots to match the panel layouts just don't look inviting to play.
Can you show me the first iteration of the 100m?
Roland System 500
I have a System 500. That is now considered a clone?

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Re: Behringer Roland System 100 clone

Post by msboude » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:02 pm

monoscan wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:57 pm
blw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:33 pm
monoscan wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm
blw wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:25 am
Two iterations of the System 100m in Euro now, and neither looks any fun to use to me. All those short sliders and mini pots to match the panel layouts just don't look inviting to play.
Can you show me the first iteration of the 100m?
Roland System 500
I have a System 500. That is now considered a clone?
:bang:

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