WMD Crucible

Zymos · Post by **Zymos** » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:34 pm

Hmm, guess not.
I could take some photos of what they sent with the module I guess- was there anything specific you wanted details about?

WMDevices · Post by **WMDevices** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:22 am

Buyakasoundman wrote:Anyone find a manual online?
WMD website doesn’t have a link to a pdf.

We just didn't link to it. Should be taken care of later today. Thanks!

WMDevices · Post by **WMDevices** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:55 am

WMDevices wrote:
Buyakasoundman wrote:Anyone find a manual online?
WMD website doesn’t have a link to a pdf.
We just didn't link to it. Should be taken care of later today. Thanks!

Online now, also here's the Manual Link

Buyakasoundman · Post by **Buyakasoundman** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:54 pm

Thanks so much!

Buyakasoundman · Post by **Buyakasoundman** » Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:00 pm

Zymos wrote:Hmm, guess not.
I could take some photos of what they sent with the module I guess- was there anything specific you wanted details about?

Thanks for the offer Zymos, I have one coming tomorrow and I’m trying to wrap my head around the functions.
WMD’s manual cleared things up nicely.

g3po · Post by **g3po** » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:50 am

This module is... just lovely. I love how one can get three slightly different sounds, yet obviously related, sounds by triggering Excite, Mid or both together.

Alex's in depth demo was incredibly helpful in understanding this surprisingly deep yet simple module.

Highly recommended making the space for this one.

MindMachine · Post by **MindMachine** » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:33 pm

Does anyone know if this comes with a 'silver' faceplate option?

And this video is pretty cool:

[video][/video]

dysonant · Post by **dysonant** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:48 pm

Has anyone noticed that if you send velocity CV at the same time as a trigger that is actually updates on the next step? I have run into this issue with other digital modules. This is kind of infuriating for precise velocity values.

nerdware · Post by **nerdware** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:14 am

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dysonant · Post by **dysonant** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:48 am

nerdware I appreciate the explanation and suggestion. I am in fact putting the velocity a step before, but I am a simple person using a complicated system and doing this can get quite confusing for me.

What I find frustrating is that this module seems to have been designed without thinking of this use case. Which is surprising because one would think that precise velocity values on specific steps would be a main use case. I infer this because the input is named "Velocity". If the main use case was to input random values, then I might have named that something else.

This leads me to a much better solution than delaying triggers (yes this is percussion where delays are noticeable). I will have to run this module through a VCA and send velocity information to that VCA. It will definitely work well and as expected for precise timing. Unfortunately, this means that the velocity input on my Crucible is essentially useless and will always be left unused. So, it begs the question, why did WMD not make the velocity input a plain old VCA?

nerdware · Post by **nerdware** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:55 am

nerdware · Post by **nerdware** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:17 am

dysonant · Post by **dysonant** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:23 pm

Or I could just run it through a VCA like I said. It’s a much simple and more elegant solution. One WMD unfortunately did not implement.

Dark Barn · Post by **Dark Barn** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:46 pm

dysonant wrote:Or I could just run it through a VCA like I said. It’s a much simple and more elegant solution. One WMD unfortunately did not implement.

With the physical modelling aspect of the Crucible in mind are you certain that the velocity input isn’t more nuanced than a simple volume control? I’m not saying for certain but perhaps there are aspects of the velocity that might affect the timbre or decay, which you won’t get from patching a VCA in it’s place.

dysonant · Post by **dysonant** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:35 am

Dark Barn wrote:
dysonant wrote:Or I could just run it through a VCA like I said. It’s a much simple and more elegant solution. One WMD unfortunately did not implement.
With the physical modelling aspect of the Crucible in mind are you certain that the velocity input isn’t more nuanced than a simple volume control? I’m not saying for certain but perhaps there are aspects of the velocity that might affect the timbre or decay, which you won’t get from patching a VCA in it’s place.

Fair point, though between edge, mid, choke, excite and all the other controls, there is a ton of nuanced timbre control. You still cannot step program the velocity without some kind of workaround. So my point remains that it is essentially a useless input for precisely timed velocity.

EATyourGUITAR · Post by **EATyourGUITAR** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:44 am

actually I think your problem is quite the opposite. your WMD is working perfectly but your sequencer is slow to update the changing voltage at the output. the clock is probably some pass through. the CV out, if it is a digital module, is probably just a few computer clock cycles away. it has to execute code and use some kind of digital to analog converter. if it is a cheap PWM converter then you will always have lag on your CV out from your sequencer. the WMD is probably doing something like a sample and hold at the velocity input when a new gate comes in. you can test this right now by using a mult and patch the same gate to both velocity and gate input. patch one of them through a passive attenuator to vary the velocity. if your velocity changes with the attenuator then you have a perfectly fine WMD module. if not then it is a confirmed bug in the WMD firmware that should be corrected.

pr0t0 · Post by **pr0t0** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:39 am

how are you guys using the input jack? It didn't seem to do much for me, maybe the incoming signal must be amplified for more noticeable results?

dysonant · Post by **dysonant** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:48 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:actually I think your problem is quite the opposite. your WMD is working perfectly but your sequencer is slow to update the changing voltage at the output. the clock is probably some pass through. the CV out, if it is a digital module, is probably just a few computer clock cycles away. it has to execute code and use some kind of digital to analog converter. if it is a cheap PWM converter then you will always have lag on your CV out from your sequencer. the WMD is probably doing something like a sample and hold at the velocity input when a new gate comes in. you can test this right now by using a mult and patch the same gate to both velocity and gate input. patch one of them through a passive attenuator to vary the velocity. if your velocity changes with the attenuator then you have a perfectly fine WMD module. if not then it is a confirmed bug in the WMD firmware that should be corrected.

Well hot damn! This is useful information. I did precisely this using Pam's, I had to offset the gate going into the velocity because it just was not high enough to effect the velocity. You are correct. I scoped it on DATA and higher/lower voltage gates hitting at precisely the same time as the other gate worked perfectly and alter the volume.

As side note, I did not notice any distinct timbre changes so I think it is purely for dynamic range.

I feel a little bad about harping on about this, but apparently it was worth it for your valuable and concise feedback. Thanks.

EATyourGUITAR · Post by **EATyourGUITAR** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:57 am

I am guessing that it has a sample and hold so there will still be differences between using the velocity input and using an external VCA. if you want to use an external VCA then it will track your sequencer better even though your sequencer is a bit laggy. this way you get what you want but you don't need to add a trigger delay. you can run your sequencer through an attenuator to decrease dynamic range. try swapping between lin and exp vca on the fly.

dysonant · Post by **dysonant** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:22 am

EATyourGUITAR The VCA solution does work just fine. I have already done it, but I would love to use that crucible velocity input. I have already asked about this with the sequencer manufacturer to see if there are options.

This sequencer actually has two CV outs per lane and the second has more restricted range for modulation, plus range can be controlled per step. Though switching between exp/lin on the VCA is a cool trick. Gonna try that too.

This also may explain why I am getting very distinct clicks when using this sequencer for velocity on other VCAs. I am going to scope the sequencer to see if I can see the lag. If it is not something the manufacturer can address, I may need to consider alternative sequencers.

EATyourGUITAR · Post by **EATyourGUITAR** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:04 pm

I guess what I am trying to say is that I wouldn't stress too hard over this. I would just put a very very small amount of slew on the CV out from the sequencer and send it to a VCA. I could be wrong but if the WMD has a sample and hold it wont update after the gate triggers the sample hold. it would be a shame to sell off your favorite sequencer or have to RMA it. I think this can be fixed with a DVCA or just slew the attack of the CV out. the sequencer lag is probably so small it won't get noticed and the click is removed by the DVCA or the slew trick no problem.

ggillon · Post by **ggillon** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:04 pm

Crossposting from another thread.

The description of crucible on the site says it can do gongs and bells as well as cymbals, but all the video I found focus on the cymbals side.

So someone asked me to do a test trying to do bell/gong sounds with it.

Here is the test (feeding some FM sounds in the crucible input). I thought it might interest some people

https://soundcloud.com/gautier-gillon/b ... t-crucible

Parnelli · Post by **Parnelli** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:34 pm

I love this module, it's a very cool cymbal module.

For gongs and bells I use the plate setting with the hole removed from the metal, lower the tone and pitch, and cv the rest for the tone I require. I haven't perfected the exact gong sound yet, but I'm getting some shimmery metallic sounds that are really quite different, and as thus loverly to me.

I've FM'd the Input a bit, but I haven't really done much with it as I'm having fun with all the other aspects just now.

Great module!

mdoudoroff · Post by **mdoudoroff** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:37 pm

Thanks, ggillon. Gives me some new stuff to try!

Zymos · Post by **Zymos** » Fri Dec 13, 2019 4:44 pm

Wow, that sounds really cool ggillon!!

MUFF WIGGLER

MUFF WIGGLER

WMD Crucible