Serge Extended ADSR - module walkthrough

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the bad producer
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Post by the bad producer » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:59 pm

The Serge 114 circuit can be built as a DUSG, DTG, TGO, VCS etc depending on what you choose to implement with the circuit/panel. For example the DTG doesn't usually include the '1V/OCT' input etc

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FatRocky
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Post by FatRocky » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:07 pm

Got it!
It’s such a fascinating world of building panels and variety of circuits this one
Thanks
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beem
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Post by beem » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:21 pm

This is why Serge seem to act a little weird in a fun way from time to time, cause there's some hidden functionality like this that you didn't expect.

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Post by skkatter » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:55 am

Thanks for the good write up Ty, the scope images are a great touch.

*However*, I still want to complain a bit about the actual envelopes themselves. I've got the Serge M-Class Dual ADSR (http://www.serge-fans.com/m-class-dualADSR.cfm) which as the name suggests has a pair of the extended ADSRs.

There's something off about them, musically. It's hard to explain but when trying to dial in the exact envelope shape I want I find it quite difficult on the Serge ADSR, no matter what slope shape I use. I've got a lot of other envelopes (Fenix II, Intellijel Quadra, Doepfer A-141-2, Doepfer A-143-2, 4ms PEG, 20+ analogue monosynths) and the Serge ADSR are my least favourite. No actually the Crumar Spirit ones are my least favourite and the Serge is my second least favourite.

Anybody else think they feel off? It could possibly be a calibration issue, but both the envelopes perform exactly the same and it doesn't feel like their completely broken, more that the ranges are as useful as other ones.

Maybe I should record a demo showing how they're different to some other ones.

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batchas
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Post by batchas » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:46 am

skkatter wrote:Anybody else think they feel off? It could possibly be a calibration issue
Pers. I don't think they feel off, and maybe it's a calib issue... But it would be interesting first to know what exactly are these differences when you compare it to your other brands.
skkatter wrote:It's hard to explain but when trying to dial in the exact envelope shape I want I find it quite difficult on the Serge ADSR
You mention other brands which you prefer, but you use these other brands in the same patch? I mean only replacing the Serge ADSR in a patch with one from a different brand?
I'm asking because I pers. find the Extended ADSR one of the best module I ever had, due to all the functionality it includes.

Now about the shapes, it would be interesting to see what you cannot do with the Serge that you can with others. Do you mean a fast attack, a long release?
Because slopewise, the Serge can IMHO do pretty much everything possible with the 5 controls (6 if we include the master voltage control input) - in my own experience more than a Doepfer or anything with 4 control anyway. Not even speaking of all the VC IN which make it unbeatable.

Or maybe the other you use are more direct, less controls? Could be too.
I like the Doepfer as an ex. if I don't need too much control, normal envelope, fast setting via switches (low, mid, fast) and so on.
Did you check with a scope, might be worth doing, so you could see directly how the dials affect the shape, compare with the other brands. Having of course the delay pot full CCW!
skkatter wrote:There's something off about them, musically.
You mean when you use the ADSR with a VCA? A filter? Else?
Indeed making a video might help.
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tytytytyty
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Post by tytytytyty » Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Indeed, skkatter, it'd be good to hear more about what you're trying to do. I'm not sure if you're saying that you're unable to get the envelope shapes you should be getting, or if the envelopes aren't driving the downstream actions in a way you'd expect (in which case batchas' question about your patch comes into play). As the scope images show, the Extended ADSR is certainly capable of generating all of the conventional ADSR shapes... and then some!
Last edited by tytytytyty on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by syncretism » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:35 pm

skkatter wrote: There's something off about them, musically. It's hard to explain but when trying to dial in the exact envelope shape I want I find it quite difficult on the Serge ADSR, no matter what slope shape I use. I've got a lot of other envelopes (Fenix II, Intellijel Quadra, Doepfer A-141-2, Doepfer A-143-2, 4ms PEG, 20+ analogue monosynths) and the Serge ADSR are my least favourite. No actually the Crumar Spirit ones are my least favourite and the Serge is my second least favourite.
Could it be the response of the VCAs or target modules that aren't doing it for you? Like, do you feel the same way about the EGs when you're using them to modulate your non-Serge modules? Sorry, I don't know how "mixed" your patches typically are, and I can't tell if you're keeping every format self-contained.

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Post by beem » Sat Nov 10, 2018 6:49 am

skkatter wrote: There's something off about them, musically.
I can relate to that for some of the slopes, the mid (or lower) feels good, but i never use the upper, that one has a weird decay/release. Might be appropriate in some cases, don't know...

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FatRocky
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Re: Serge Extended ADSR - module walkthrough

Post by FatRocky » Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:24 am

:tu: re-post at new thread

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Sinamsis
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Re: Serge Extended ADSR - module walkthrough

Post by Sinamsis » Mon May 25, 2020 8:51 pm

Late to the party, but thank you for this! Very helpful!

Xomrys
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Re: Serge Extended ADSR - module walkthrough

Post by Xomrys » Tue May 26, 2020 12:06 am

skkatter wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:55 am
Thanks for the good write up Ty, the scope images are a great touch.

*However*, I still want to complain a bit about the actual envelopes themselves. I've got the Serge M-Class Dual ADSR (http://www.serge-fans.com/m-class-dualADSR.cfm) which as the name suggests has a pair of the extended ADSRs.

There's something off about them, musically. It's hard to explain but when trying to dial in the exact envelope shape I want I find it quite difficult on the Serge ADSR, no matter what slope shape I use. I've got a lot of other envelopes (Fenix II, Intellijel Quadra, Doepfer A-141-2, Doepfer A-143-2, 4ms PEG, 20+ analogue monosynths) and the Serge ADSR are my least favourite. No actually the Crumar Spirit ones are my least favourite and the Serge is my second least favourite.

Anybody else think they feel off? It could possibly be a calibration issue, but both the envelopes perform exactly the same and it doesn't feel like their completely broken, more that the ranges are as useful as other ones.

Maybe I should record a demo showing how they're different to some other ones.

Serge ADSR is a bit slow as I remember, maybe not as bad as the arp Odyssey envelope but in the same territory. '73 EG is best, also negative slew and DSG can give very fast AR envelopes, like arp 2600, just put a very thin pulse into the signal input (you don't need to trigger it), with rise time as fast as possible. These have to be patched in feedback (output->rate) to get the good exponential shapes (for VCF), but linear is OK for the VCA control.

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