Kermit mk III - coming soon

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lordymosh
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by lordymosh » Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:42 am

Good substitute. Currently have the PH MK3 and awaiting the Kermit MK3.

I will probably get the HD MK3 at some point, once my friend builds me my new case. :hyper:
brianobush wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:33 am
I was considering get a PHmk3 to accompany my HDmk3, but the Kermit mk3 looks like a good substitute (at least for the interim) for my wavetable needs. Saves me much needed rack space since I was planning on acquiring the Kermit anyways.

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jwm
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by jwm » Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:05 pm

had some downtime today, and spent a little time putting kermit through its paces and grabbed a snapshot of what ended up happening.



as best i can remember, 3 separate sequences from stillson hammer mk2 feeding a piston honda mk1, donut mk2 (both primary and modulator) honda and donut 1 into double andore with some whack ass envelope selection, donut 2 into a takaab lpg.

all oscillators submixed down with an antimatter sub ring (a small amount of ring mod between the honda and donut 2 is dialed in on ch. 5) which feeds a king slender.

also feeding slender is a short loop caught in a tyme sefari mk2, which is being told to play by a random gate sequence from stillson mk2 and is flipping between fwd and reverse with a stillson mk1, and this hits a polivoks vcf, the cutoff of which is modulated by small (and at times large) amounts of a kermit channel doing code scan.

slender then hits bionic lester mk2. kermit is modulating all kinds of things and is also self modulating via internal matrix.

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Grava_RB
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Grava_RB » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:33 pm

Totally loving the Kermit MKIII! :sb:
Incredible rich in features and a lot of character to give to the oscillators!
In tempo envelope mode, used for vca of one of the oscillators, I'm sometimes getting pops at the end of an envelope cycle, like a very short envelope. Anyone encountered this?

Anyway, big thanks IME for the crazy kermit.

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Pighood
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Pighood » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:11 pm

YEOW what a convoluted firmware update procedure....but it worked. :yay:
*phnert*

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Leverkusen
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 am

Just about to update Kermit.

The update txt says: Connect your Pickit to the USB port, and connect the Pickit cable to the 6-pin header on the back of the module. Make sure “Pin 1” on the module is aligned with the triangle symbol on the Pickit.

So, which one is pin 1 on the module?

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Grava_RB
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Grava_RB » Fri Mar 27, 2020 12:43 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 am
Just about to update Kermit.

The update txt says: Connect your Pickit to the USB port, and connect the Pickit cable to the 6-pin header on the back of the module. Make sure “Pin 1” on the module is aligned with the triangle symbol on the Pickit.

So, which one is pin 1 on the module?
Didn't European Kermits already come with the newest firmware?

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mt3
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by mt3 » Fri Mar 27, 2020 1:33 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 6:34 am
Just about to update Kermit.

The update txt says: Connect your Pickit to the USB port, and connect the Pickit cable to the 6-pin header on the back of the module. Make sure “Pin 1” on the module is aligned with the triangle symbol on the Pickit.

So, which one is pin 1 on the module?
Not a big deal. Reverse it if it isn't recognized by the software.

See here:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=165472

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Leverkusen
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Fri Mar 27, 2020 5:26 pm

I have to admit I did not check the firmware before trying to update. Just found an irregularity with the internal modulation that I couldn't explain and decided to try the update...pin 1 is on top.
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

lordymosh
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by lordymosh » Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:37 pm

I can't seem to sync the module with external clock correctly. I'm using one of the CV outs on my analog 4 mk2 as clock. The bpm is set to 132 on the A4 yet when I plug it into the tap tempo jack on the kermit its showing 525 bpm. :hmm:

I wonder if it would be possible to set the tempo with the rotary encoder in a future firmware update.

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Dark Barn
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Dark Barn » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:39 pm

lordymosh wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:37 pm
I can't seem to sync the module with external clock correctly. I'm using one of the CV outs on my analog 4 mk2 as clock. The bpm is set to 132 on the A4 yet when I plug it into the tap tempo jack on the kermit its showing 525 bpm. :hmm:

I wonder if it would be possible to set the tempo with the rotary encoder in a future firmware update.
You could try sending 1ppq from your A4? I’m guessing that you are sending 4ppq? Or conversely you could set the global clock on Kermit to /4. Go to the preset menu and scroll down.
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lordymosh
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by lordymosh » Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:23 am

Dark Barn wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:39 pm
lordymosh wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 5:37 pm
I can't seem to sync the module with external clock correctly. I'm using one of the CV outs on my analog 4 mk2 as clock. The bpm is set to 132 on the A4 yet when I plug it into the tap tempo jack on the kermit its showing 525 bpm. :hmm:

I wonder if it would be possible to set the tempo with the rotary encoder in a future firmware update.
You could try sending 1ppq from your A4? I’m guessing that you are sending 4ppq? Or conversely you could set the global clock on Kermit to /4. Go to the preset menu and scroll down.
Yes it turned out I forgot to change the additional clock settings on the A4. :doh:

Its nearly synced correctly but for some reason the Kermit is only displaying 130.8 bpm when it should be 132 bpm. Must try some additional stuff.

Great module. Loving it so far. Although I've only used tempo synced lfos so far. Its nice being able to use presets with the new Kermit and Piston Honda.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by temaniak » Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:51 pm

Raw quick video with Kermit mk3 & BL mk3 as synthvoice.



1 ch: unison osc output to BL3
2 ch: env mode controls through mod.matrix amplitude of osc on 1 ch. + input to cutoff CV of BL3
3 ch: temp random mode controls through mod.matrix frequency of envelope on 2 ch. + input to resonance CV of BL3

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Pighood
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Pighood » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:02 pm

Anyone else notice the module "goes to sleep" after a few hours....tap indicator goes off and status lights of Osc C & D go glacial. No way to wake it up....just have to reboot.
*phnert*

lordymosh
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by lordymosh » Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:39 am

Have barely scratched the surface of this module. So many possibilities.


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Leverkusen
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:37 am

I like how the MKIII modules get those huge demo/overview videos now. I actually learned something new as I did not know about the varying response the frequency knob has in 1-shot-envelope mode and actually wondered what was going on there when I tried to dial in envelopes as I did not get longer ones with a short attack even when the display looked like that.

One question to other users regarding the internal modulation (57:40): I get unpleasant digital clicks when I use internal envelope modulation of oscillator amplitude, especially in unison mode. In the video though (from 1:01 on) he sets the oscillator to unison and it sounds quite good - in my rack I have to use an external VCA to get it right. Is this something that others also experience?

Apart from that (well, and the convoluted UI) it is a great module. All oscillator modes sound great and unique and as soon as the matrix is set up there is some incredible modulation going on. :goo:
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Leverkusen
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:02 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:37 am
One question to other users the internal modulation (57:40): I get unpleasant digital clicks when I use internal envelope modulation of oscillator amplitude, especially in unison mode. In the video though (from 1:01 on) he sets the oscillator to unison and it sounds quite good - in my rack I have to use an external VCA to get it right. Is this something that others also experience?
I think I got it - the amplitude control on all channels is broken. The issue also occurs with external CV, and when you manually turn the amplitude knob. There are steps and irregularities. The amplitude goes up first, then down again and then up again. Same thing when using an external CV offset dialed in via Maths channel 2/3. So no wonder it reacts clicky to envelope control. Strange that it did not get noticed before since it is on all channels. :hmm:
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by jwm » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:45 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:02 pm
Leverkusen wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:37 am
One question to other users the internal modulation (57:40): I get unpleasant digital clicks when I use internal envelope modulation of oscillator amplitude, especially in unison mode. In the video though (from 1:01 on) he sets the oscillator to unison and it sounds quite good - in my rack I have to use an external VCA to get it right. Is this something that others also experience?
I think I got it - the amplitude control on all channels is broken. The issue also occurs with external CV, and when you manually turn the amplitude knob there are steps and irregularities. The amplitude goes up first, then down again and then up again. Same thing when using an external CV offset dialed in via Maths channel 2/3. So no wonder it reacts clicky to envelope control. Strange that it did not get noticed before since it is on all channels. :hmm:
i've not watched the whole thing in it's entirety yet, but i can say i actually spoke with scott about this when i first got the module and we did some back and forth testing/bug squashing... apparently the zero crossing detection is very "basic" in oscillator mode, and the state that amplitude works on the current firmware (1.1) is a step up from where it was at upon initial release. i was getting serious lags and hang ups where it would sometimes take a second or more for the actual amplitude to catch up to where the knob was actually turned to..

i've noticed that i can get smooth openings if the amplitude modulation is greatly attenuated virtually, but of course, this doesn't yield much overall volume as one would expect. if i open up the attenuation, yeah, it's noticeably steppy...which isn't a total dealbreaker for me, since a lot of my stuff is clicky and glitchy and all that...but it you wanted a nice smooth swell of an oscillator, i could see it being more of a gripe for sure.

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Leverkusen
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Fri Apr 10, 2020 5:00 pm

Thank you for sharing your experience and confirming this. I think I totally misunderstood that zero crossing bug in the firmware revision history. I am not sure yet how much the steppyness really bothers me regarding smooth modulations, but it seems to lead to annoying clicks when modulating with a faster envelope due to discontinuities. I guess that's what the zero crossing should prevent? WMD have a zero crossing detector in their digitally controlled VCA which does not really work that great either.

How are your oscillators C and D behaving then? I have continuos discontinuity like clicks on them even without any modulation. I love all the 12 / 8 Bit modes but these noises in clean unison mode just doesn't sound right to me.
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:42 am

I Did a short recording/demonstration of how my Kermit behaves. Would be great to know how others experience this.

First OSC A: Slowly turning up AMPLITUDE. Then dialing in internal AMPLITUDE modulation by OSC B sine, thereafter morphing through the wavetable (3) by hand.

Then OSC C: Again slowly turning up AMPLITUDE by hand, then playing around with the FREQUENCY knob, no modulation assigned on Oscillator C. Then, after a short parameter jump due to switching knob C from FREQUENCY to AMPLITUDE slowly turning AMPLITUDE on oscillator C back down again. Now the steps and jumps in volume happen while steadily turning the knob down.


http://soundcloud.com/leverkusen/kermit ... or-crackle

I like the sound of the waveforms with their aliasing a lot but those loud crackles are more on the disappointing side. Also envelope modulation does not sound okay with the irregular response curve, lots of cracks. While the noisy waveform morphing might just be how it is, for a modulation source the amplitude behaviour would not file under character to me anymore. Same with the cracking on oscillators C and D. :confused:
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by jwm » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:19 am

Leverkusen wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:42 am
Then OSC C: Again slowly turning up AMPLITUDE by hand, then playing around with the FREQUENCY knob, no modulation assigned on Oscillator C. Then, after a short parameter jump due to switching knob C from FREQUENCY to AMPLITUDE slowly turning AMPLITUDE on oscillator C back down again. Now the steps and jumps in volume happen while steadily turning the knob down.

I like the sound of the waveforms with their aliasing a lot but those loud crackles are more on the disappointing side. Also envelope modulation does not sound okay with the irregular response curve, lots of cracks. While the noisy waveform morphing might just be how it is, for a modulation source the amplitude behaviour would not file under character to me anymore. Same with the cracking on oscillators C and D. :confused:
just tested this and yeah, its more or less what i get too. i swear i read somewhere or heard somewhere along the way that there was some dac difference difference between chA & B and C & D...and maybe thats the cause for the glitchy aspect of C & D? though going back through all the written material i can find, everything says its all the same soooo i'm not sure, maybe i am thinking of something else, or am just totally wrong.

anyway, what i keep telling myself is well, technically this thing is a modulation source, and not a stand in for a piston honda. it's an "experimental" oscillator at best. but as i stated up-thread, i also just kinda lean into the weirdness, so ymmv

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:33 am

Oh dear! Yes, I have read or heard that too about C and D (its also hinted in the manual) but expected them to be just a little more digital lo-fi, like bit depth and sample rate reduced or something like that, grittier, more high freq aliasing, restricted frequency range - but not so full of crackles that one would not want to use them. To me the audio part seems quite prominently featured on the module and how it's advertised („full synth voice, morphing wavetable oscillator“) so I was expecting it to work more consistently. Maybe not like a Piston Junior, but then most wave banks seem to be very much tailored to audio use (in fact it is advertised as the Piston Hondas little brother).

With it's envelope/VCA functionality I planned to use it as an extra FM modulator for the PH and HD just like it’s suggested in the video above. Therefore AMPLITUDE really needs to have a more consistent response. The website says Kermit has a „16-bit DAC to accurately render subtle changes of voltage at extremely low frequencies.“ And then the amplitude control is stepped and only moves somehow more or less into the chosen direction, though only most of the time? Amplitude is not that much of an esoteric parameter after all. There is not much use in an internal mod matrix, when you have to use an external VCA anyway to create a standalone synth voice.

Hopefully this will be fixable in the firmware. I really like what Kermit offers for glitchy and unusual digital sounds and modulation. There was so much work invested in the different flavours and it would be a shame not being able to use them all just because of a broken amplitude control and some stupid digital crackles…

Anyhow, thank you very much though for testing and clarifying this. :tu:
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:49 pm

I did some more testing - this is how it sounds when Envelope B modulates the amplitude of oscillator A with a falling sawtooth / linear decay envelope. (bank 7, 0 - 6V). :despair:



Also internal modulation of frequency does not work with D in timed random mode. Modulating other parameters does work, using C timed random or patching a cable from D to one of the other oscillators does also work. Can someone replicate this?

EDIT: The last point was worded a bit awkward - what is not working here is internally modulating the frequency of on audio oscillator by the timed random signal of oscillator D. It works with a patch cable and the LED of D is showing its movement. Also internal Frequency modulation of A is possible by timed random C.


EDIT2: It actually is more like this: Internal modulation from any random source on any channel to any other channels frequency is only possible with the modulators range set to 12vpp. 0-6v and 0-1v do only work when patched to the corresponding frequency control with a cable.

Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:59 am, edited 10 times in total.

autopoiesis
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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:24 pm

is there also stepping when modulating the amplitude of kermit mkiii's envelopes and lfos? please let that at least not be true, especially given the price of the module.

also curious to hear if others can replicate the inability to modulate the frequency of D in timed random mode.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by Leverkusen » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:14 pm

Unfortunately yes. Here osc B in LFO mode is modulating frequency of osc A. I am slowly increasing the amplitude of the modulator to fully open and then back to zero again. You can hear how it jumps back and forth in steps. The irritating notion is that the irregularity of the amplitude response seems to be fixed and always occurs in the same way - notice how the first audio example above shows a mirrored wave at the beginning and the end, just near zero. Or how the rhythm of the single decay envelope is always the same. :hmm:



:cry:
Last edited by Leverkusen on Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kermit mk III - coming soon

Post by autopoiesis » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:47 am

paging IME.

this doesn't sound right at all.

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