HERTZ DONUT MARK III - shipping now!

Digital Audio Electronics - discussion & support.

Moderators: Kent, solidox, governor blacksnake

Post Reply
User avatar
mt3
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2889
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:18 pm
Location: vancity
Contact:

Post by mt3 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:07 pm

Vcoadsr wrote:Quick question - no matter what I do the MIX out is just a quieter version of the MAIN out, I thought the MIX out was an analogue sum of the AUX & MAIN outs?

I'm running the latest firmware - could someone help me figure this out please?
What is your AUX OUT assigned to?
Sounds like there might be some phase relationship between AUX OUT and MAIN OUT that's causing attenuation.
The Manual wrote:"The AUX output has a user-selectable behavior in the OPTIONS menu. You can select either operator A or B, the sum of them both, or the digital XOR of them (resulting in a harsh sound similar to ring modulation.)

Consider the AUX OUT MODE menu setting carefully. The “Op A + Op B” setting is a clean mix of the two operators. If you use this in conjunction with the MAIN OSCILLATOR set to a simple sine wave as well, the MIX output represents the sum of all three sine generators and is useful for additive
synthesis."

User avatar
synonymist
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 661
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:11 pm
Contact:

Post by synonymist » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:03 pm

.
Last edited by synonymist on Sat May 23, 2020 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Vcoadsr
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Vcoadsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 12:04 am

mt3 wrote:
Vcoadsr wrote:Quick question - no matter what I do the MIX out is just a quieter version of the MAIN out, I thought the MIX out was an analogue sum of the AUX & MAIN outs?

I'm running the latest firmware - could someone help me figure this out please?
What is your AUX OUT assigned to?
Sounds like there might be some phase relationship between AUX OUT and MAIN OUT that's causing attenuation.
The Manual wrote:"The AUX output has a user-selectable behavior in the OPTIONS menu. You can select either operator A or B, the sum of them both, or the digital XOR of them (resulting in a harsh sound similar to ring modulation.)

Consider the AUX OUT MODE menu setting carefully. The “Op A + Op B” setting is a clean mix of the two operators. If you use this in conjunction with the MAIN OSCILLATOR set to a simple sine wave as well, the MIX output represents the sum of all three sine generators and is useful for additive
synthesis."
I've tried setting the AUX to all three options but for the easiest test I used the XOR as it is the most tonally obviously one to hear if it's being summed to the main oscillator at the MIX out. In this configuration I still only hear (& see via an oscilloscope) the MAIN signal.

I'm assuming from your reply that you don't observe the same problem?

Voggg
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:53 pm
Location: Washington DC

Post by Voggg » Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:49 am

yeah that's not normal behavior. It does sound slightly quieter, and it can be hard to hear, for instance if you're only mixing op A and it's just a sine wave, but you should definitely be able to hear it when FMing one op with the other, or in XOR mode.

User avatar
Vcoadsr
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 674
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:04 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Vcoadsr » Mon Jul 15, 2019 11:59 pm

Voggg wrote:yeah that's not normal behavior. It does sound slightly quieter, and it can be hard to hear, for instance if you're only mixing op A and it's just a sine wave, but you should definitely be able to hear it when FMing one op with the other, or in XOR mode.
Thanks, that's what I thought .... I'll have to send an email to IME then. Thanks for everyone's help.

User avatar
jwise
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 317
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 1:02 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Contact:

Post by jwise » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:46 am

Vcoadsr wrote:
Voggg wrote:yeah that's not normal behavior. It does sound slightly quieter, and it can be hard to hear, for instance if you're only mixing op A and it's just a sine wave, but you should definitely be able to hear it when FMing one op with the other, or in XOR mode.
Thanks, that's what I thought .... I'll have to send an email to IME then. Thanks for everyone's help.
Have you tried patching an External signal to EXTFM and mixing it in using the Umbrage slider?

User avatar
joey
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: Berlin

Post by joey » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:54 am

[video][/video]

IME jam here - Piston 3 thru malgo + donut 3 thru polivoks vca on other sounds + morphagene + some elektron stuff :)

User avatar
PietroC
Common Wiggler
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:17 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by PietroC » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:18 am

I emailed IME about the Mix output being quieter !!!

I was responded
The mix output’s volume depends on the setting of the Aux output source. It mixes each source quieter, so yes, in some cases it will seem quieter than the main output which is 10vpp

So No Worries

User avatar
PietroC
Common Wiggler
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:17 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by PietroC » Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:25 am

Deleted :deadbanana:

Besfar
Common Wiggler
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:59 pm

Post by Besfar » Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:12 pm

Love the module.
But i have a question that was sparked by this demonstration:



Here scott presents the prototype hd3.
It includes different selectable waveforms, saw square and triangle as i understand it.

Anybody have an idea why he left this out?
Seems so strange if it was implemented at this stage.
Powerful as the module is, it would be sweet to have more waveforms :)

User avatar
PietroC
Common Wiggler
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:17 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by PietroC » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:58 am

Its already Insane and im 200% satisfied

The external in i haven't wrapped my mind around yet or else its user friendly
But its true I forgot about this video and the mentionning of other waveforms
Imagine that :twisted: Maybe a future Firmware Upgrade will implement this

Also in this video mentions that are not implemented yet are
- The Buttons had different waveshaping modes
- slider 4 being being freely assignable
and what you mentionned

User avatar
PietroC
Common Wiggler
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:17 pm
Location: Montreal

Post by PietroC » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:17 am

Its already Insane and im 200% satisfied

The external in i haven't wrapped my mind around yet or else its user friendly
But its true I forgot about this video and the mentionning of other waveforms
Imagine that :twisted: Maybe a future Firmware Upgrade will implement this

Also in this video mentions that are not implemented yet are
- The Buttons had different waveshaping modes
- slider 4 being being freely assignable
and what you mentionned
Last edited by PietroC on Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
robotopsy
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 734
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:55 am
Location: Canada

Post by robotopsy » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:05 am

For reasons I don't remember he changed his mind and focus on phase distortion instead. I own the 3 version of Hertz Donut and really enjoy each one and each sounds unique.
Besfar wrote:Love the module.
But i have a question that was sparked by this demonstration:



Here scott presents the prototype hd3.
It includes different selectable waveforms, saw square and triangle as i understand it.

Anybody have an idea why he left this out?
Seems so strange if it was implemented at this stage.
Powerful as the module is, it would be sweet to have more waveforms :)

autopoiesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Post by autopoiesis » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:59 pm

selectable waveforms for any or all of the operators would a really pleasant firmware gift.

I've played around with one at Schneiders and it's really, really nice, causing me to consider either a hard oscillator sacrifice (PH MkIII or DPO... fuck no, I will not do it!) or buying a 4MS pod to make room for this monster.

a few things that aren't 100% clear to me from the manual and that I didn't get to try out:

- does the sync input reset all the operators to 0V? useful for minimizing clicking when VCAs open after or before waveform zero-crossings, for those occasions when we aren't making the donut spew sidebands and harmonic distortion that would mask the clicks
- is it just the Main oscillator that can get detuned (1,2,3,4,oct-,oct+,etc.), or can you also detune Op A and/or B individually?
- for the detuning effect: are the "virtual copies" of the oscillator made after all the fold and mod stuff take place? it sounded like that to me, because when I would try doing FM and waveshaping tricks with my old shapeshifter while simultaneously engaging its unison/detune/chord facility, it was a lot more apt to yield hashy noise soup. the HD mkIII holds up better in these contexts
- does preset morphing interpolate between quantized frequency ratios when the preset scope is "All Params"? (the manual states it will not interpolate between quantized ratios in the other preset scopes.) or can it just not do this in any morphing scenario?

btw, when I first learned of the HD mkIII I got excited about the combination of mkIII-style preset morphing + the quantized operator ratios -- I imagined smoothly traversing the horribly dissonant but richly varying territory between one set of neat frequency ratios and another, in between starting at one "musical" sound and finally landing on another. if it's not possible in "All Params", this is maybe another firmware dream, unless the IME gang has already explored this option and found it not "useful" (hard to imagine) or implementable.

Besfar
Common Wiggler
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:59 pm

Post by Besfar » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:20 pm

Yeah dont get me wrong, the hdmk3 is insane as it is. Just when i see more waves i go "yes please". But im in love with this osc sound so sine waves are fine.
Just think about the damage a saw or square would do though :hihi:

Anyway, another question:
When syncing, is there a way to only sync the main osc/operator? Eg, just main and not the a & b operators, or at least let them follow as ratios or following at their own pitch?
Seems when i sync the main, everything gets synced to the same pitch. Or i just need some sleep and try again tomorrow.

Love this osc
:sb:

Ps Robotopsy thanks for the tutorials, appreciate your style :)

Besfar
Common Wiggler
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:59 pm

Post by Besfar » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:48 pm

I have another question:

When the cv knob on the preset manager is at fully ccw, and there is cv connected, the presets jump like crazy.
It doesnt behave like this on the piston honda.

Thats not right, right?
I mean, fully ccw should be attenuated to zero movemet, right?

EDIT: SOLVED
- Had the "ctrl" set to "cv + offset," not "cv + attenuate."

User avatar
Roy72
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:35 pm
Location: Melbourne

Post by Roy72 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:23 pm

The HD Mk3 is great, picked it up during the week and there's so much in it.

A couple of things I'd like to see in future updates (if not already mentioned):
- Using the mod matrix to set the levels of the oscillators for the Mix out - say Main, OpA, OpB, Unison, maybe active while the Mix A+B is live on the menu.
- Some of the tracking modes from the Mk2 as options for the operators.

Otherwise, its cracking.

User avatar
joey
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1356
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:51 pm
Location: Berlin

Post by joey » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:53 am

http://soundcloud.com/blush-response/at ... over-miami

HD3 in full effect here on the bass (and piston 3 pad!)

vidret
Common Wiggler
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:26 pm
Location: Skogen

Post by vidret » Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:48 am

Roy72 wrote:The HD Mk3 is great, picked it up during the week and there's so much in it.

A couple of things I'd like to see in future updates (if not already mentioned):
- Using the mod matrix to set the levels of the oscillators for the Mix out - say Main, OpA, OpB, Unison, maybe active while the Mix A+B is live on the menu.
- Some of the tracking modes from the Mk2 as options for the operators.

Otherwise, its cracking.
The levels of the oscillators for the mix out sounds like an almost obviously good idea.

autopoiesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Post by autopoiesis » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:19 am

really love this module. just a couple of things would make it perfect IMO:

- please consider adding some kind of "soft pickup" option for the sliders. it's a pretty frequent move to switch between the osc A and osc B pages, and FM index controls leaping from one value to another will always produce a VERY audible jump in timbral results. should definitely be possible to facilitate smoother adjustments to all the FM index levels across operators within a performance context by adding a soft pickup action for the sliders, when we already have the screen to show us where the slider needs to move to catch the stored value.

- please consider some kind of "auto-save current preset when module powers down" option for these mk3 modules. it could be something the owner elects to engage or not. I have too many goddamn digital modules that require manual saves in my system and I have seriously considered keeping only one IME MKIII module for this reason, but I would absolutely hate to have to let either the Piston or Donut go, or to put the new Kermit out of consideration.

both are not for everyone's preferences so menu options would be ideal, but I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting these behaviors from the module.

that is all. I hope someone from IME is listening and taking this feedback into consideration.

Voggg
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 371
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:53 pm
Location: Washington DC

Post by Voggg » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:00 am

Confused by your second request. I can't check at the moment but doesn't the module power on in its last state?
autopoiesis wrote:
- please consider some kind of "auto-save current preset when module powers down" option for these mk3 modules. it could be something the owner elects to engage or not. I have too many goddamn digital modules that require manual saves in my system and I have seriously considered keeping only one IME MKIII module for this reason, but I would absolutely hate to have to let either the Piston or Donut go, or to put the new Kermit out of consideration.

autopoiesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Post by autopoiesis » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:23 am

Voggg wrote:Confused by your second request. I can't check at the moment but doesn't the module power on in its last state?
autopoiesis wrote:
- please consider some kind of "auto-save current preset when module powers down" option for these mk3 modules. it could be something the owner elects to engage or not. I have too many goddamn digital modules that require manual saves in my system and I have seriously considered keeping only one IME MKIII module for this reason, but I would absolutely hate to have to let either the Piston or Donut go, or to put the new Kermit out of consideration.
the 'Startup' menu item allows you to configure the module to start up at some particular Preset #, and if you finish your work on that same preset before you power off the module, you will indeed start up back to that preset the next time you power it on. but if you don't save your changes to that preset before shutting down, it will just load up the last-saved state of the preset.

this is no big deal if you have only one or two of these types of modules in your system. it gets to be a real pain in the ass when you have 3, 4, 5, or more. and it becomes a lot more appealing then to think about "sacrificing" a preset slot (e.g., #1) to be the "scratchpad" and saving your actual "presets" to other preset slots, but only if the module could be configured to automatically save to this scratchpad.

User avatar
Leverkusen
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2280
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Suhlendorf

Post by Leverkusen » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:27 am

autopoiesis wrote:really love this module. just a couple of things would make it perfect IMO:

- please consider adding some kind of "soft pickup" option for the sliders. it's a pretty frequent move to switch between the osc A and osc B pages, and FM index controls leaping from one value to another will always produce a VERY audible jump in timbral results. should definitely be possible to facilitate smoother adjustments to all the FM index levels across operators within a performance context by adding a soft pickup action for the sliders, when we already have the screen to show us where the slider needs to move to catch the stored value.

- please consider some kind of "auto-save current preset when module powers down" option for these mk3 modules. it could be something the owner elects to engage or not. I have too many goddamn digital modules that require manual saves in my system and I have seriously considered keeping only one IME MKIII module for this reason, but I would absolutely hate to have to let either the Piston or Donut go, or to put the new Kermit out of consideration.

both are not for everyone's preferences so menu options would be ideal, but I'm sure I'm not alone in wanting these behaviors from the module.

that is all. I hope someone from IME is listening and taking this feedback into consideration.
I really second the strong wish for a soft pick up for the shared controls of all MKIII modules!

But I am not sure how they should save their state when the power has already shut down. I guess the state has to be saved with every change then, which might affect the live live behavior and also might wear out the memory. But I have no real insight in memory as my own one doesn't work so good either.

I think right now the module powers up in the state you have chosen to be the power up preset, doesn't it?

autopoiesis
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Post by autopoiesis » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:59 pm

you can configure it to start up to a particular preset, and if you power down at that preset you will be back to where you left off the next time you power up -- if you save the preset. otherwise you'll be back to where that preset was the last time you saved it. try it: wiggle an operator knob or fader level, restart your system, and then see where it starts up.

I dunno, there are quite a few digital modules out there that are able to automatically save states between power cycles without any kind of performance hiccups. this is an area that deserves some demystification, as I'm sure there are myriad factors that affect how viably this can be implemented from module to module, but just saying "it's not possible to 'automagically save' at power-down" or "periodic saves would introduce glitches or latency into the normal functioning" doesn't seem to be valid for all digital modules.

User avatar
Leverkusen
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2280
Joined: Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:26 am
Location: Suhlendorf

Post by Leverkusen » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:10 pm

autopoiesis wrote:you can configure it to start up to a particular preset, and if you power down at that preset you will be back to where you left off the next time you power up -- if you save the preset. otherwise you'll be back to where that preset was the last time you saved it. try it: wiggle an operator knob or fader level, restart your system, and then see where it starts up.
Yes, that's how it works. I don't think it is possible to change that via firmware updates. How should the module realize that it has been powered down and still be able to save a preset? Constantly saving the current state to a preset or maintaining enough power to save when powered down might need a hardware update. "Periodic saves" would not help a lot cause you would never know if the current state is saved or not.

It would be handy of course - but the "soft pick up" for the sliders is more of an concern to me. Also I have some difficulties to memorize the preset save procedere without doing something wrong and don't make as much use of it as I want to.

Post Reply

Return to “The Harvestman”