Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

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diophantine
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Post by diophantine » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:46 pm

Just for fun, I tried to record modulation signals on a couple of loopers (Boss DD-7 and Akai E2 Headrush). The Akai I felt doubtful about, since it already has issues dealing with hot (non-modular) signals.

With an audio-rate saw-wave both did ok, despite some distortion issues and the levels being severely lower (the output is not as hot as the input).
With LFO-rate AC signals, the DD-7 performed similar to how it did for audio-rates, but the levels were even lower. The E2 didn't even pass the signal through, let alone loop it.
With a DC envelope, The DD-7 still looped it, but the levels were even lower still (I could barely detect it). Nada with the E2.

Perhaps an attenuator and a pre-amp before & after the DD-7 would help, but I am sure it would still not be very close to what was originally intended. It seems that the slow frequencies is as much of an issue as DC.

BTW, was just using a simple patch of osc -> VCA, and controlling the VCA with the looper's output.
7thDanSound wrote:
theantiroman wrote:@ 7th Dan Sound:

Sick!

So is that :

audio into VCA with the VCA being opened and closed rapidly in some manner. then VCA to recording device.

playback (CV retrieval): recorded CV to envelope follower then enve. follower output to whatever you want to follow CV?
Yes, that's exactly how I imagined it :hihi:
Yeah, this is similar to Subotnick's approach mentioned in an article linked to above.

I don't have an envelope follower or preamp, but I tried this with the DD-7 (just dumping the output into the VCA's CV in) and got promising results.

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Demi Jon
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Post by Demi Jon » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:15 pm

maybe if you watch this video by the excellent Keith Fullerton Whitman in HD and look real close you can steal some ideas from his set-up:


[video][/video]

If this embedded video doesn't work, here's the link

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:32 pm

that is sick.

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theantiroman
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Post by theantiroman » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:33 pm

Well there is a korg sampler going into the modular........................

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Post by Art » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:29 pm

This thread is great. I didn't even know CV can be recorded, wow... Thanks, guys. :guinness: Envelope follower is now in my wish list!

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Re: Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

Post by Mike Fun » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:31 pm

sb wrote:I've tried the Allen Strange tail chasing type stuff and this is great for generating randomly changing cv...


What section is that in? I'd like to try some of his examples.

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Post by zerosum » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:01 am

This thread is great! :yay:

Unfortunately this is a thread i think i am going to take more out of than give to.
I'll keep a link to this thread handy for when I find something cool to add,
but a lot has been said here that is hard to top. 8_)

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kindredlost
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Post by kindredlost » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:10 am

Another example of a generative patch with enough modules to give it some interesting diversity. I recorded this yesterday for this thread.

A few more details are in the YouTube description. Sorry about the poor video, I gotta get a new camera and I'm totally stupid when it comes to video formats etc..

FWIW I agree with Dude about Modcan. I am more interested in having a patch that generates the unexpected but within limits. I'm not really interested in recording aspects of the patch, whether cv or audio. Yet I have used loopers and delays so I guess that is a "purist" fail. There is something magical about a device making unexpected and pleasing sounds on it's own that are interesting and diverse.

[video][/video]

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Lyonel
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Post by Lyonel » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:27 am

Very Beautiful !

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mono-poly
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Post by mono-poly » Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:31 am

kindredlost Cool patch!


And yeah a cv recorder is one of the things i'd use to make a self generating patch. Kinda boring imo having something loop. Totaly something i'd not want.
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Post by 7thDanSound » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:30 pm

kindredlost: :tu: totally otherworldly!

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zanadar
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Post by zanadar » Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:05 pm

Uuurggh.... reading such threads is dangerous for my bank account.

BUT!
As a friend of mine said: "I support the accrual of fun over the accrual of funds".

Another thing I've been playing with is finding a semi-random source (which like a radio station) and I know this isn't "self-generating" (Wherever the self starts here I'm not sure)...but using that as an injection into clocking, etc, with some resampling through delays...so like pushing the whole mess down hill.

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Post by pugix » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:10 pm

Nothing like a revived thread!

Lately I've been incorporating a Ciat-Lonbarde Cocoquantus into the modular. The cocoquantus contains a cluster of five oscillators that cross modulate in ways that are extremely conducive to interesting evolving patches. Besides the five VCOs, internally it contains 10 sample & holds, as well as a switching matrix to change the internal patch (what VCOs modulate what other ones). My favorite outcome so far:

http://pugix.com/synth/petal-on-its-own/
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chamomileshark
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Post by chamomileshark » Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:36 pm

Listening to it now Richard - interesting, thanks for sharing. Right now I'm working on my first generative patch
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matttech
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Post by matttech » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:37 pm

i did a good one a while back centred around the wogglebug:

http://soundcloud.com/spitezoo-experime ... glebuggery

not sure if this is what you mean, but it certainly did a shit load of endlessly evolving stuff without me having to do a lot whilst recording (obviously i couldn't help myself, and got amongst it to spice things up even further!)

blurb from soundcloud:

"did some cool Wogglebug tomfoolery this evening....lots of fun. had the random gate bursts going into the a160 clock divider, with the different divisions triggering 2 different envelopes and 3 channels of Maths, all mixed together in a mixer and multed out to both the FM input of the AFG and the RS110's lowpass cutoff (with the AFG going into it)

then i used one of the divisions to trigger the RS60, enveloping the Oakley VCA with a nice spiky envelope - multed the output of the Oakley into 4 different processing modules (BBD, SoS, Spring Reverb, Borg 2), modulated the fuck out of them with the mix of 4 envelopes from earlier, in some cases inverted, and sent them all into the 4 inputs of a sequential switch - this was then stepped through by one of the a160's divided outputs. it created fucking havoc!

basically the patch switches through 4 heavily modulated and effected versions of the random gate triggered, filtered, and pitch modulated AFG outs. halfway through i start pissing about with various settings on the FX, and switch on Maths' cycling mode (on both channels).....messing with the cycle speed until it reaches audio rate FM.

i mean, you've gotta laugh, haven't you?

this barmy sound is then layered over the top of a 3 track recording of some earlier Woggle-buggery, using its various stepped and slewed CV outs.....along with some Woggle oscs if memory serves me correctly....which it probably doesn't"

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Post by richard » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:46 pm

I've had a patch generating something that sounded planned and by the time I got the recording going it was over, never to return
in my experience this always happens :hihi:
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Tales from the Voodoo Box (EMS Synthi A solos) https://soundanatomy.bandcamp.com/album ... ynthesiser

Richard Scott - Several Circles https://cuspeditions.bandcamp.com/album ... al-circles

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pugix
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Post by pugix » Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:49 pm

chamomileshark wrote:Listening to it now Richard - interesting, thanks for sharing. Right now I'm working on my first generative patch
Thanks. I think 'self-generating patch' covers more territory than what is called 'generative'. The latter is how Brian Eno used to describe some of his work. I did some generative stuff with software called Noatikl. And it's a lot different from the kinds of control that I get with the cocoquantus, and from what you could get from most self-generating patches, I think.

http://pugix.com/synth/tag/generative/
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Post by thebrotherspus » Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:13 pm

i just thought i'd bump this thread. i really enjoyed reading through it. i'm a noob trying to get into this kind of "self evolving" "self generating" patching.
anybody got more to add to it? i'd love to hear it!

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Pascal
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Post by Pascal » Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:51 am

on the modular I use gates and divisions to trigger different sounds, gate delays, random cv's and sequences with changing step and direction.

I find the Coco really shines in this direction, you can check Richard (Pugix) blog and Ciat Lonbarde forum for some great information about how this damn thing works.

[video][/video]

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Post by strettara » Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:24 am

Very lovely and mysterious. Ciat-Lonbarde is definitely in my future, but not soon, alas.
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amnesia
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Post by amnesia » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:02 am

loads of CV some ASR and DA
[video][/video]
[video][/video]

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Pascal
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Post by Pascal » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:31 pm

amnesia, sounds great, special the first one, do you remember patch details

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amnesia
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Post by amnesia » Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:40 pm

I have, just this minute, pulled the patch apart!

Its just 2 ASRs, cv into the Freeze of DA and the usual suspects VCO Optomix etc

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Post by Electrostatic » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:31 am

I've just started mucking about with simple self generating patches.
This is a really simple one that I think sounds quite nice. But it really does need more cv randomness going on, especially on the A-143's.

This isn't really evolving, but its a start I guess.

[video][/video]

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Pascal
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Post by Pascal » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:30 pm

this is nice

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