Self generating patches....tips and ideas ?

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strettara
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Post by strettara » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:32 pm

Thanks - it did work out nicely, though I should emphasise that I was changing some parameters manually while recording it, mostly the FM amount and waveforms on the cyclebox, I should think (can't remember). But the basic patch - the modulation path, envelope parameters and so on - were all automatic.

Sometimes you get lucky setting up a patch which has a load of sweet spots, and in five minutes it's ready to go, and other times you can spend hours trying to get something to work and it refuses to! This was one of the happy accidents.
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Leoespejo
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Post by Leoespejo » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:36 am

This is an exciting treat. :guinness:

I haven't read every single entry here, anyway i didn't see that anybody mention The Toppobrillo Sport Modulator which i think working with any random source is amazing for Self Generating patches.

Here you have my first attempt to get into this world.

I'd say this is some Self Generative Madness.

[video] [/video]

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HueMonContact
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Post by HueMonContact » Thu Dec 27, 2012 11:03 am

Here's a self generative patch I was working on yesterday.
the Heart and soul of the patch is a combo of the moskwa in random mode, ulfo, mfb dual lfo, noisering, zorlon cannon, 2 x envelators and maths.
Anti & Uncle OSC w/ ZDSP Reverb HP LP program and a little tape echo.

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soul
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Post by soul » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:33 pm

So many things to try. Excellent thread!

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Post by Electrostatic » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:58 am

Just did this last night.
All Doepfer modules. Kinda sounds like The Clangers and R2-D2 having a laser battle... or something.

[video][/video]

Cheers.

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Post by teethgrinder » Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:33 am

nice one :tu:

can you explain further your patch ?

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Post by Electrostatic » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:31 am

teethgrinder wrote:nice one :tu:

can you explain further your patch ?
Cheers Teethgrinder.
It was basically just lots of cross modulation between 2 A-110's and an A-143-4, with added modulation on one of the vco's by an A-143-1.

There are just two waveforms used as audio, a triangle and a square, both from the same vco. One audio signal goes to a vca via the wasp filter, and the other via the LPG. Both filters are being modulated by various things.
And then the vca's are being controlled by two squarewave lfo's from the A-143-4.

For some reason I ended up with the audio from the ring mod going into the PLL which was just modulating the wasp filter. Must have patched it wrong from what I had in my head, but seemed to work out alright.

Cheers

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Post by teethgrinder » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:04 am

thank you for your explanation , will try it at home :tu:

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Post by Milanm » Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:16 am

Michael O. wrote:I think one of the most interesting ways of getting a self-composing/playing patch going is to set up a chaotic feedback system. Basically, you start with at least two elements that can be linear, like the outputs of a cycling voltage controllable dual envelope generator (Maths, Envelator, DUSG, 281, etc.) or some sort of other voltage controllable cyclical waveform generators (VCO, Sport Mod, SSG, and the like) and have those two linear elements patched to modulate each other, like a tail chasing oscillator patch (that is, for instance, Maths ch.1 out multed to ch.4 Both mod in, and ch.4 out multed to ch.1 Both mod in, both set to cycle). Then, you need a voltage controllable nonlinear element (Wogglebug, Serge Random Source, Sport Mod patched as a stepped/smooth random source, 265/6, vc slewed sample+hold, etc.) thrown into the feedback loop (in the aforementioned example, take the outputs of the Maths ch.1+4 and the nonlinear element and feed them all into a mixer, a polarizing one is obviously great there, and send the output to VC ins on each of the elements, like Rise/Fall mod in on the maths and the VC in on the nonlinear element). The outputs are taken from the mixer, the individual elements, etc., which gives you a wide range of modulation sources and destinations to patch into/out of other parts of the modular, like other feedback loops, for instance, to create a very complex non-repetitive self-generating system.
This is absolutely amazing, tried to patch this last night and think I got it mostly right. Had a good few hours of messing with the settings. Blissful chaotic nonsense ensued.

Just want to check Im understanding correctly:

Maths ch.1 to mult then to ch.4 Both in,
Maths ch.4 to mult then to ch.1 Both in, (both set to cycle).

Maths ch.1+4 secondary out to a mixer along with the nonlinear element out (Noisering or Turing Machine in my case)

Send the output to VC ins on each of the elements, like Rise/Fall mod in on the maths and the VC in on the nonlinear element.

Mixer output mult'd to various modulation destinations as well as the mult'd Maths channel1+4 outputs.

Sound right?

Thanks for that post, its been a real eye opener.

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Post by BKehew » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:04 am

I made a preset for the Alesis Andromeda called "Patch This" years ago - the name came about as it was very wide-ranging, compared to most synths of the time, certainly shows off the routing and random power of the old A6.

Someone may have it as a download? I'm not away from home or I'd post what it sounds like - anyone have one to try and upload?

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Post by BHC303 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:41 am

Great thread, looking forward to trying a few techniques listed here out soon :party:

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Post by Opus110 » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:12 am

One of my favorite thread on Muff. Glad to see it revived.
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Post by Isolde and Isobelle » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:50 am

An excellent thread - overlooked by myself, until now.

I am starting to build another case which I intend to be used solely for ''self generating'' patches. I have a mind to use the Tip Top Audio Z8000 as the brain/heart of the system with logic modules such as Intellijel's Plog and the Doepfer A-166 and adding the A-135 -1/A-151... also possibly the Wiard Noisering and other things as I get to understand the system.

The real eye opener for me here is, the A-149-1, which up until now I had never really thought about in terms of its functionality and range of use.

It would be great if others could add to this thread in light of recent additions to the modular world... of course, I am ''Eurocentic'' - but, all suggestions are most welcome.

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Post by pugix » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:35 pm

Great thread! My latest project is a suitcase synthesizer that will be capable of very complex self-evolving sounds. You can follow the development by this tag on my site:

http://pugix.com/synth/tag/quantisise/

Edit: A key point for the Quantisise design is having a lot of sample and holds, two for each VCO. It's this unusual ratio of VCO to S&H that gives it the capability of extreme self-evolution. I didn't invent it. Credit goes to Peter Blasser.
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Post by solaris » Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:43 pm

pugix wrote:Great thread! My latest project is a suitcase synthesizer that will be capable of very complex self-evolving sounds. You can follow the development by this tag on my site:

http://pugix.com/synth/tag/quantisise/

Edit: A key point for the Quantisise design is having a lot of sample and holds, two for each VCO. It's this unusual ratio of VCO to S&H that gives it the capability of extreme self-evolution. I didn't invent it. Credit goes to Peter Blasser.
http://pugix.com/synth/quantisise-progress/
this looks very beautiful+++
▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈□ □ □ □ □ □ □ □ □ t r a n s f e k t i o n ▔▔▔▔╲▂▂▁▂▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈▂▁▁
▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈□ □ ▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈□ ▂̵̶̵̥̤̳̤̇̈̄̅̈▔╲▂̥̥̊̊̊̊▂ ‬::.:::.h++p://z.x-xx---x.info □ □ □ □ □ □ □ □ □‬

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Post by distorted » Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:53 am

matttech wrote:did some cool Wogglebug tomfoolery this evening....lots of fun. had the random gate bursts going into the a160 clock divider, with the different divisions triggering 2 different envelopes and 3 channels of Maths, all mixed together in a mixer and multed out to both the FM input of the AFG and the RS110's lowpass cutoff (with the AFG going into it)
this post unlocked some doors for me last night. I read this and immediately felt like a complete idiot for never thinking to plug the random bursts into a clock divider. Playing around with that lead me in some really interesting directions. great thread overall!

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Post by themanthatwasused » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:21 pm

I nominate this as the best thread here in Muffs!
:tu:
Went thru a rewarding gig last night after reading through the stuff posted above. As of late I have been trying out self generating patch with my bugs and with insane results but it has been always a hit and miss for me. Then this thread made it always a hit!
:hail:
Will post a sample video soon.

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Post by elmegil » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:11 am

distorted wrote:
matttech wrote:did some cool Wogglebug tomfoolery this evening....lots of fun. had the random gate bursts going into the a160 clock divider, with the different divisions triggering 2 different envelopes and 3 channels of Maths, all mixed together in a mixer and multed out to both the FM input of the AFG and the RS110's lowpass cutoff (with the AFG going into it)
this post unlocked some doors for me last night. I read this and immediately felt like a complete idiot for never thinking to plug the random bursts into a clock divider. Playing around with that lead me in some really interesting directions. great thread overall!
I have a 5U Wogglebug (Bridechamber) and I'm not sure what the "gate bursts" are? One of the square vcos? Or the clock out with the rate controlled by one of the other random CVs?

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Post by Matos » Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:17 am

On the euro version you have a clock out and another out right above it that puts out gate bursts based in the clock rate. Fun stuff!

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Post by elmegil » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:15 am

Aha, a Tony addition.

I'm jealous; it's not clear to me how it works (even after watching a couple of videos), and Tony doesn't publish schematics (at least not that I've been able to find).

Maybe eventually I'll add one of these to my euro rack....

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Post by ATOM » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:07 pm

http://soundcloud.com/atomatic-1/rnd1

Made a little recording tonight, inspired by this tread :)

Modcan B - VCDO, VC Flanger, 4VCA, Dual LFO
Buchla 266 clone
Cyndustries Four Transients
VC Bandpass 194 (a Buchla 194 clone and L-1´s Quad VCA-Mixer combo)

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Post by distorted » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Matos wrote:On the euro version you have a clock out and another out right above it that puts out gate bursts based in the clock rate. Fun stuff!
I feel like the gate bursts are based on other factors besides just the clock. I decided this recently because I've been preparing a live set where I'm clocking the woggle from a laptop and I've been altering the gate bursts significantly via the other controls (woggle/range/etc) when an external clock is plugged in. This may be my imagination, as the gate bursts are wonderfully crazy. Anyways, the gate bursts are a big favorite for me with the the makenoise wogglebug. They make me miss my zorlon canon a little bit less, but I still wish I had the zorlon canon

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Post by Girts23 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:26 pm

I was testing my version of the Polivoks filter, and wanted to feed both CVins with randoms signals. So I came up with a simple, 100% self generating patch, involving few my DIY modules. Wogglebug Clock Out feeds Yusynth ADSR and MFOS S&H clock; it S&Hs Hexinverter VC noise (Moise "frequency" CV impacted by Wogglebug Smooth CV Out), and S&H Outs goes back to Wogglebug Clock in. MFOS VCO through Oakley Discontinuity (Fold CV run from LFO) goes to MOTM Sub-Octave Multiplexer in Ring Modulator Mode, it swithches through ocatves (Input B from LFO). All this stuff goes into Polivoks VCF controlled by Wogglebug Stepped CV and ADSR simultaneously. Of couse, VCA controlled by the same ADSR at the end. I didn't touch a knob during this experiment.
Result: Synthstück Automatic Stockhausen
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Post by eole » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:39 pm

i recently did a simple generative patch.
Maths, Function and P.E.G. where mutually changing their speed.
impredicable behaviour !

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Post by MR » Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:42 pm

Absolutely great and inspiring thread! I'll definitely try out these ideas.

One question I thought about a lot in the last time is:
How to turn a self-generating patch into a musical statement?

Possible answers I came up with:

1. It already is. Just record a few minutes/hours of the output of the
patch; that's the piece/track/composition. That's the slogan "Let the
sounds be themselves" (Cage), and that's what many people do. Of course
it's fine. But sometimes I have the impression that the pure patch output
is most interesting for the patch creator, and not for every listener.
Maybe sometimes one can't fully appreciate a self-generating patch's output without knowing its history.

2. Edit. Single out the "most interesting" parts of the output? Might destroy the natural dynamic/development of the patch. Or maybe separate the "voices" in a self-generating patch into a mixing desk and perform some creative mixing (fades, fx, ...)?

3. ...
4. ...
5. ...

6. Add acoustic instruments. That's what I'm currently interested in, see
e.g. this post or this post.

To cite Stockhausen (about his early electronic/instrumental pieces like KONTAKTE):

"These familiar sounds give orientation, perspectives of listening; they function as traffic signs in the unbounded space of the newly discovered electronic world of sound. [...] The encounter with the familiar and nameable in regions of the unfamiliar, unnameable makes the unknown more mysterious, fascinating, and conversely the familiar, also the banal and ancient - something we barely had an ear for - becomes fresh and alive in the new environment of the unfamiliar."

My first attempt, see above, was the combination of a self-generating patch with a piano improvisation "reacting" on it. Here's my most recent attempt:

http://soundcloud.com/mr183/wood-clay-iron-cloud

This is a "predetermined" improvisation to a self-generating patch (cycling
Maths and Wogglebug in cross-feedback provide the core; the other Maths
outputs give triggers, pitches, and AM modulators to four different
voices). I tried to figure out six strategies to complement the modular,
namely
"play accents to the modular", "play contrasting sounds", "imitate",
"follow rhythmically", "ignore the modular", "silence"
and distributed them over the four minutes in something like a score.

To make things more challenging for me, the acoustic sources should be pretty "poor" sounds: didgeridoo (empty blowing, lip/tongue sounds),
plucked egg cutter as a very poor harp, ocarina flute.
This gives four acoustic tracks.

Finally I ignored all my conceptualisms and faded in some dubby chords
(from a Microkorg, played through EHX Holy Stain and Boss RE-20).

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