The sound of Eliane Radique - any modules that can do?

Anything modular synth related that is not format specific.

Moderators: luketeaford, Joe., lisa, Kent

User avatar
gorsta
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:45 am
Location: Stavanger, Norway

The sound of Eliane Radique - any modules that can do?

Post by gorsta » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:35 am

Im a big fan of Eliane Radique, and im looking for some modules that can reproduce the fantastic filtered sound that she makes from her ARP2500.

Anyone having some tips for some modules?

thanks

User avatar
Soy Sos
Dub Surgeon
Posts: 4611
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:38 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Post by Soy Sos » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:57 am

I'd guess anything ARP-like.
Suit and Tie Guy's "Post Lawsuit Filter" in euro (maybe 5U too) comes to mind.
Not sure what else. I think what would be fun is to study her compositional methods and try to apply some of those concepts without so much looking to reproduce the sound. There was a lovely documentary about her floating around somewhere.
Welcome on your first post by the way.

User avatar
diophantine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:50 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Post by diophantine » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:41 am

Soy Sos wrote:Suit and Tie Guy's "Post Lawsuit Filter" in euro (maybe 5U too) comes to mind.
That came to mind too. I believe it is the same as the Yusynth ARP VCF (but just shrunk to 1U width).
http://yusynth.net/Modular/EN/ARPVCF/index.html

However, those are the ARP 2600 filters (4072). Having never had the pleasure to play either a 2500 or 2600, I don't know how different the filters are (there were also multiple filters on the 2500: 1006 & 1047).

You can find more info on some of the ARP2500 modules here:
http://www.guitarfool.com/ARP2500.html

I'd love to know more about her compositional methods, but haven't really seen anything to date.

User avatar
nrdvrgr
Working at NASA on acid
Posts: 3561
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:17 pm
Location: Wermland, Sweden

Post by nrdvrgr » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:44 am

[video][/video]

Great stuff.
-Extendunt barbam tuam, et velo-

WEBSITE: http://www.nordvargr.com
BUY/LISTEN: http://nordvargr.bandcamp.com
VIDEO: http://vimeo.com/nrdvrgr

User avatar
ndkent
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3658
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:59 am

Post by ndkent » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:21 am

Can't say I've had much time on the 2500, though I doubt the multimode filter on it was close to the later "post lawsuit" lowpass filter. Probably just as well if not better to go for a discrete multimode that isn't trying to sound like something from a later era.

Definitely look into effects that sound like the era. Convolution is fine if you are on a budget but what gets me is someone saying how much they want to sound like vintage electronic music and then slap some budget digital reverb on it

confusional
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1165
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:01 pm

Post by confusional » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:21 am

Redacted.
Last edited by confusional on Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Soy Sos
Dub Surgeon
Posts: 4611
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:38 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Post by Soy Sos » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:30 am

@diophantine
Yeah, I don't know anything about the 2500's filter.
My 2600 actually has the CMS updated filter which is very nice,
although I sometimes wonder if I should have kept the original.

I'd say start with the compositional vibe and technique and go from there.

User avatar
diophantine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:50 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Post by diophantine » Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:31 pm

Henrik - thanks, I'll watch that in a bit. I've only seen a severely shortened version of that.
bradleyallen wrote:
diophantine wrote:I'd love to know more about her compositional methods, but haven't really seen anything to date.
I've been exploring her music over the past year. I recently picked this up. :hail:

http://www.discogs.com/Eliane-Radigue-V ... se/1913494
The liner notes in that have always made me curious... the timbres on Vice Versa are sometimes very similar to what she achieved with the ARP 2500, but it is apparently only tape feedback? At least there is no mention of synthesizers, which she usually does mention. Not my favorite Radigue release, but still an interesting one!

@ Soy Sos - what's the CMS update to the filter?

User avatar
Soy Sos
Dub Surgeon
Posts: 4611
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:38 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Post by Soy Sos » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:12 pm

http://www.discretesynthesizers.com/arp ... rp2600.htm

FILTER MODULE UPGRADE - (4072) - (LATER MODELS) - 79.00

All later ARP filters (after 1975) have a cutoff frequency limit of 11 kHz. This mod upgrades the cutoff frequency range from 11 kHz to 28 kHz. We also upgrade the filter output amp and control summing amp. This is a necessity for all un-encapsulated filters. A cost effective alternative to a 4012 module.

User avatar
Jason Brock
just visiting
Posts: 4228
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:32 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: The sound of Eliane Radique - any modules that can do?

Post by Jason Brock » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:14 pm

gorsta wrote:Im a big fan of Eliane Radique, and im looking for some modules that can reproduce the fantastic filtered sound that she makes from her ARP2500.
Can you link me to one of her songs and tell me a specific time during the song that exemplifies the sound you're after?
Having never played a 2500 I'm not familiar with it. And while there are many other synths that I can hear and say "Oh, that sounds like a _____", I really don't know what a 2500 sounds like.
I do think the filter was multimode, so a lowpass only like the Post Lawsuit probably isn't what you're looking for.

User avatar
Orbless
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1202
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:57 pm
Location: San Francisco, CA

Post by Orbless » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:36 pm

I picked this up recently. It is pretty amazing all around.
Letterpressed covers and a book with some good interviews from all of the composers.

http://www.importantrecords.com/release ... e_page.htm

User avatar
Soy Sos
Dub Surgeon
Posts: 4611
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:38 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Post by Soy Sos » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:40 pm

I love her quote at 10:42

Sometimes the technicians tell me "it's anti-acoustics"
What do I care about anti-acoustics if it what I want?

Beautiful!

richard
bananaphile
Posts: 7162
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:17 am

Post by richard » Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:23 pm

I really think her sound is more dependent on a concept of listening than on any particular filter, or instrument for that matter.
Bastard Science Vol.1 and 2 (Hordik, Buchla, Serge, EMS, Oberheim) https://soundanatomy.bandcamp.com/album ... ence-vol-1
https://soundanatomy.bandcamp.com/album ... ence-vol-2

Tales from the Voodoo Box (EMS Synthi A solos) https://soundanatomy.bandcamp.com/album ... ynthesiser

Richard Scott - Several Circles https://cuspeditions.bandcamp.com/album ... al-circles

User avatar
Monobass
thonk.co.uk
Posts: 8803
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Monobass » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:04 pm

ndkent wrote:Definitely look into effects that sound like the era. Convolution is fine if you are on a budget but what gets me is someone saying how much they want to sound like vintage electronic music and then slap some budget digital reverb on it
EMT 140 or you might as well be dead. DEAD.

Image

User avatar
radams
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1119
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:33 pm
Location: Virginia

Post by radams » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:13 pm

wow - I had not heard this music before - this kind of sound is very close to my heart - love it

User avatar
Monobass
thonk.co.uk
Posts: 8803
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Monobass » Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:18 pm

richard wrote:I really think her sound is more dependent on a concept of listening than on any particular filter, or instrument for that matter.
I agree. I think she would create something remarkable from whatever tool she chose. It's her dedication, patience and passion that makes the work so rich.

I hesitate to bring the issue of gender to the table too, because on one hand it seems too obvious and blunt a distinction... but in the same way that a woman is a lot less likely to do something ridiculously macho and pompous like blasting out music from helicopters (grow up Mr Stockhausen - RIP) there's something innately different about her work compared to the bulk of electronic music, which is utterly male dominated.

I'd be really interested if there are any female perspectives or critiques on this out there.

User avatar
diophantine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:50 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Post by diophantine » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:58 pm

@ Soy Sos - thanks for the ARP mod info!
Monobass wrote:
richard wrote:I really think her sound is more dependent on a concept of listening than on any particular filter, or instrument for that matter.
I agree. I think she would create something remarkable from whatever tool she chose. It's her dedication, patience and passion that makes the work so rich.
In part I agree, but I really think that the ARP 2500 is crucial to her best works. At least to me, there is "something" often missing in the synthesizers works done without the ARP.

I am not sure how much the female aspect has to do with her work; if anything the most significant factor like that I'm sure would have to be her Tibetan Buddhism (and her mindset that led her to it).

--

Somewhat ironically, I just got back from the post office, picking up a my copy of "Adnos I-III". There's actually some liner notes in there by Rhys Chatham that shed some light on her compositional methods and equipment. About filters:
"In addition to the Arp, Eliane has made exception use in this piece [Adnos II] of an outboard third-octave filter (a filter with a very fine bandwidth, three to an octave) used in synch wit hte beautiful filters of her Arp, which include low and high pass capabilities as well as bandwidth with a voltage-controlled "q" feature, which enables one to pinpoint a desired overtone to emphasize, if one wishes to."

Anyone know what sort of a filter that outboard thing would be?

There's also mention of extensive ring-modular use in Adnos III.

Hmm... not sure why I never noticed it before, but that insert was scanned into discogs, for the curious:
http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=125530

User avatar
Monobass
thonk.co.uk
Posts: 8803
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Monobass » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:52 pm

It's not that I don't think the gear is important, I guess its just that I think there are more worthwhile ways to explore the work. Like her quote in the frst paragraph of the Adnos notes.

But this is Muffwiggler after all, This thread on third-octave filters

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/topic.php?id=18724

led me to this analysis

ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/ems/maxtutors/M ... irdOct.pdf

User avatar
diophantine
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2297
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:50 pm
Location: San Diego, CA, USA

Post by diophantine » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Yeah, for sure. Not particularly interested in deconstructing it (and personally I'd rather not), but just curious what tools were used.

Thanks for the Third Octave Filter stuff! Guess it is sort of like a fixed filter bank?

User avatar
amnesia
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 7128
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 4:33 am
Location: 37 47 S 144 58 E

Post by amnesia » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:18 pm

OMG there are some cool people on here listening to great stuff. I thought I was the only one and everyone else was listening to The Cars and OMD :-)

There is SOOOO much amazing exp avant electronic music from the 60s to today:-)

I am slightly pissed because I bought this DVD for $30 and it was 15 mins long then it was on youtube
Last edited by amnesia on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Monobass
thonk.co.uk
Posts: 8803
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Monobass » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:20 pm

yeah... it looks like it could be interesting to perform with too... i'm imagining cutting out pieces of shaped card and making slow indentations into that row of faders...

User avatar
Monobass
thonk.co.uk
Posts: 8803
Joined: Fri May 29, 2009 5:39 pm
Location: Brighton, UK
Contact:

Post by Monobass » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:47 pm

amnesia wrote:OMG there are some cool people on here listening to great stuff.
I saw Eliane perform live at the ICA in London a few years ago on the GRM Acousmonium .. it was the highlight of an incredible bill.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... cousmonium

A very male bill at that, which I think is where my wonderings about the influence of gender come from rather than from recorded output.

She performed with a Laptop.
Last edited by Monobass on Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Jason Brock
just visiting
Posts: 4228
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:32 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by Jason Brock » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:55 pm

diophantine wrote:In part I agree, but I really think that the ARP 2500 is crucial to her best works. At least to me, there is "something" often missing in the synthesizers works done without the ARP.
I agree. After listening to several of her pieces today I don't think a filter alone would get you there, even if it is an exact clone of the 2500's filter. She's bringing out the ghosts in that machine. As Richard said, she has a talent for listening.

User avatar
vav
Beer Master
Posts: 3419
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:01 am
Location: Chicago

Post by vav » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:38 pm

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but the Oakley Ring Mod, or at least the Euro RM4014 is based on the ARP 2500/2600 sub module.
Vactrols are the electronic equivalent of being drunk. -decaying.sine

User avatar
MindMachine
weekend warrior
Posts: 6897
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 1:45 am
Location: Santa Susana Field Lab

Post by MindMachine » Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:37 am

vav wrote:Dunno if it's been mentioned, but the Oakley Ring Mod, or at least the Euro RM4014 is based on the ARP 2500/2600 sub module.
That is my favorite RM ... at least in the 2600 version.

Eliane Radigue recently played a recorded piece and spoke along w/ Laurie Spiegel and another great female EM composer... maybe it was Pauline Oliveros. I let the Wigglers know in the artists forum back late last year. I am sure the event has concluded. I guess it was the NY thing.

Wire magazine has a TON of esoteric music announcements.

And yes amnesia there is life beyond Cars and OMD.. although Cars can be really good and OMD are quite evocative for late 70's underground new wave action (wait... they both actually rock). I had you pegged for more of a Depeche Mode guy. :hihi:

While Radigues stuff is super slow to evolve (which is awesome... I have most recordings)... I suggest another ARP 2500 masterpiece 'ARP ART' by Elias Tannenbaum. Very unique and progressive for the early/mid 70's. Has a sample of Charlie Parker in there too...

David Morley had some youtube videos of just jamming around on the 2500, which I found to show the vast depth of the machine... while just doing some sequences, etc. It must be the best sounding machine to my ears... but so little can be heard from it. :waah:

Post Reply

Return to “Modular Synth General Discussion”