Basic sequencing rhythm

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Salmonsammy
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Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:24 am

Hello,

I was wondering the best way to get a sequencing pattern with more than on subdivision in it. I currently have both Pams New Workout and Varigate 8. I’ve been having trouble getting Pam to put out anything that isn’t a constant subdivision, like for example if I set it to half notes, it stays on half notes unless I manually turn a knob.

For example if I want a patch with a measure of three quarter notes and two eight notes. Or maybe a measure with a combination of eight notes and six teeth notes. How would I go about doing this?

Thanks in advance!

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Agawell
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Agawell » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:10 am

either use a sequential switch to swap - but then you need to be able to sequence the switch too

or use a mixer of some sort (sometimes specifically called a gate combiner) to add the 2 signals together

or a combination of the 2 techniques
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by 3hands » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:17 am

Check out Vermonas Random Rhythm. It’s probability based, and can do some really funky stuff!!
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:51 am

3hands wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:17 am
Check out Vermonas Random Rhythm. It’s probability based, and can do some really funky stuff!!
That does sound fun, but I don’t really want to do something random sequencing wise. I want to really be able to control exactly what subdivision is being made.

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:22 am

Agawell wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:10 am
either use a sequential switch to swap - but then you need to be able to sequence the switch too

or use a mixer of some sort (sometimes specifically called a gate combiner) to add the 2 signals together

or a combination of the 2 techniques
I’m not quite I understand entirely what you mean, what is. A sequential switch? You mentioned I’d need to sequence the switch too, is that something I could do through CV?

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Agawell » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:48 am

sorry my fault for typing quickly and not proof reading - you would need to trigger the switch

this is an inexpensive and very useful tool for modular synthesis - doepfer a-151 sequential switch
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:53 am

Agawell wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:48 am
sorry my fault for typing quickly and not proof reading - you would need to trigger the switch

this is an inexpensive and very useful tool for modular synthesis - doepfer a-151 sequential switch
Okay thank you, so what exactly does a sequential switch do?

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Agawell » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:03 am

another trick you could use is to abuse a switched multiple (doepfer make a cheap one or there's a pusherman pcb/panel set if you can solder or want to learn)

the abuse is to use it as a mixer not a mult - this is very bad practice - particularly if you have any older modules (as you may accidentally patch an output to an output) - but it works - and as Steevio says - it ain't broke anything yet!!

patch all the triggers you want to use into the multiple and switch them all to channel B

patch the thing you want to trigger into the multiple and switch it to channel A

you can now switch any number of the trigger streams to channel A and they will be mixed

or you could also send a trigger stream to a vca and then open/close as required using gates/envelopes/inverters - if you have a quad cascading vca you could mix 4 streams this way
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by gelabs » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:18 am

Salmonsammy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:53 am
Okay thank you, so what exactly does a sequential switch do?
It's the same as a railway switch : either route several inputs to one output (one at a time) or route one input to several outputs (one at a time). The switch is triggered by a gate and operates sequentially (ie. signal is routed to/from a different output/input each time the switch receives a trigger), hence the name.
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Niamac » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:22 am

If I’am looking for exact trigger placement I use the beatstep pro, korg sq1 or midi from maschine. None of its in the rack because the equivalent would be to large for my system. What I do miss out on with this setup is reset and start-stop from eurorack clocks. However what I do enjoy is sending triggers or gates from these external sources to rack based sequencers like shakmats knights gallop, zularatic repetitor or stoichea which then trigger my cv sequencers. I have found this generally easier than using sequential switches

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Grumble » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:33 am


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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by kwaidan » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:49 am

Take a look at an XOX programmer like Intelijel Steppy, Arturia Beatstep Pro, or WMD Metron. Both default to a sixteenth note pattern per bar. That way it would be essay to program four quarter notes followed by two eighth notes. The Metron is very powerful. For its size, the steppy can also be used to create complex and varied rhythms.

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revtor
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by revtor » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:13 pm

Pam’s can take cv inputs to control almost any parameter. Have you tried using that with some other pieces of your system to get a varied timing? Seems like the most logical way to go.
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Arneb » Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:37 pm

Salmonsammy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:53 am
Agawell wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:48 am
sorry my fault for typing quickly and not proof reading - you would need to trigger the switch

this is an inexpensive and very useful tool for modular synthesis - doepfer a-151 sequential switch
Okay thank you, so what exactly does a sequential switch do?
Taking the A-151 as our go-to example, what it does is to rotate through the jacks labeled "I/O 1-4" whenever it registers a trigger at the "Trig. In" jack. Using it as a multiplexer - i.e. patching incoming signals to the I/O 1-4 jacks and using the O/I one as output - if you'd e.g. set four of Pam's channels to halves, quarters, eighths and sixteenths respectively, patch those to I/O 1-4, patch a fifth channel set to whole-note to Trig. In, then the output at the O/I jack would be a repeating four-bar pattern:
||x-------x-------|x---x---x---x---|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx||

That being said, I don't think that's a good way to sequence something as simple as a "three quarters followed by two eighths" single-bar loop. It's a lot of patching, it's inflexible, it's IMHO not a good match for the way musicians think about note lengths, and at the end of the day if your Varigate can't even do an x-x-x-xx pattern for you without getting on your nerves you should probably sell it. Sequential switches are probably better-suited to expressing long patterns or whole pieces as evolving variations of short patterns.

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:24 pm

Niamac wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:22 am
If I’am looking for exact trigger placement I use the beatstep pro, korg sq1 or midi from maschine. None of its in the rack because the equivalent would be to large for my system. What I do miss out on with this setup is reset and start-stop from eurorack clocks. However what I do enjoy is sending triggers or gates from these external sources to rack based sequencers like shakmats knights gallop, zularatic repetitor or stoichea which then trigger my cv sequencers. I have found this generally easier than using sequential switches
I’ve never used external sequencers with my rack, I will look into that. What exactly does a reset do in a sequencer? I’m assuming maybe something to do with resetting the sequence you’ve programmed? I fairly new to eurorack so a lot of these concepts are still pretty new to me.

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:28 pm

revtor wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:13 pm
Pam’s can take cv inputs to control almost any parameter. Have you tried using that with some other pieces of your system to get a varied timing? Seems like the most logical way to go.
I haven’t tried that. If I were to take my original example of a measure of four quarter notes and two eighth notes and try to do that with Pam using cv input. So like quarter note, quarter notes, quarter note, eighth note, eighth note.

Would I have one channel of Pams output cv at 4 beats per measure, and then have something on the CV input going at twice that speed so 8 beats per measure?

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Salmonsammy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:38 pm

Arneb wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:37 pm
Salmonsammy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:53 am
Agawell wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:48 am
sorry my fault for typing quickly and not proof reading - you would need to trigger the switch

this is an inexpensive and very useful tool for modular synthesis - doepfer a-151 sequential switch
Okay thank you, so what exactly does a sequential switch do?
Taking the A-151 as our go-to example, what it does is to rotate through the jacks labeled "I/O 1-4" whenever it registers a trigger at the "Trig. In" jack. Using it as a multiplexer - i.e. patching incoming signals to the I/O 1-4 jacks and using the O/I one as output - if you'd e.g. set four of Pam's channels to halves, quarters, eighths and sixteenths respectively, patch those to I/O 1-4, patch a fifth channel set to whole-note to Trig. In, then the output at the O/I jack would be a repeating four-bar pattern:
||x-------x-------|x---x---x---x---|x-x-x-x-x-x-x-|xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx||

That being said, I don't think that's a good way to sequence something as simple as a "three quarters followed by two eighths" single-bar loop. It's a lot of patching, it's inflexible, it's IMHO not a good match for the way musicians think about note lengths, and at the end of the day if your Varigate can't even do an x-x-x-xx pattern for you without getting on your nerves you should probably sell it. Sequential switches are probably better-suited to expressing long patterns or whole pieces as evolving variations of short patterns.
That is good to know about the sequential switch, I was looking into it, but after reading this I don’t know if it could do what I want it to. As far the Varigate 8 goes, I just recently got it (a few days ago) and haven’t had a chance to look at the manual or anything.

Do you know if there’s a way to do the simple “x-x-x-xx” rhythm on the Varigate?

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by revtor » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:34 pm

Salmonsammy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:28 pm
revtor wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:13 pm
Pam’s can take cv inputs to control almost any parameter. Have you tried using that with some other pieces of your system to get a varied timing? Seems like the most logical way to go.
I haven’t tried that. If I were to take my original example of a measure of four quarter notes and two eighth notes and try to do that with Pam using cv input. So like quarter note, quarter notes, quarter note, eighth note, eighth note.

Would I have one channel of Pams output cv at 4 beats per measure, and then have something on the CV input going at twice that speed so 8 beats per measure?
Well, I don’t have this module, but I would expect it to work as you send in a control voltage, the higher the voltage the higher the division. So, set up a square wave at the (slow) frequency you want (perhaps you have a syncable lfo?) -send that square wave through an attenuator and then on to the CV input of Pam’s. Of course in Pam’s menu you have to set one of the CV inputs for this function.
The attenuation of the square wave should allow you to control the depth of change. So with some fine tuning you should be able to achieve your quarter notes to eighth notes alternating sequence.
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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by Arneb » Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:02 pm

Salmonsammy wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:38 pm
That is good to know about the sequential switch, I was looking into it, but after reading this I don’t know if it could do what I want it to.
Thing is, you could patch an x-x-x-xx type rhythm with Pam's and A-151. Just set one of Pam's channels to eighth notes and patch it to A-151's I/O 4, and a second Pam's channel to quarter notes and mult it to A-151 Trig. in and all of I/O 1-3. The problem is that, compared to a simple step sequencer, moving from that x-x-x-xx rhythm to something else is cumbersome.
As far the Varigate 8 goes, I just recently got it (a few days ago) and haven’t had a chance to look at the manual or anything.

Do you know if there’s a way to do the simple “x-x-x-xx” rhythm on the Varigate?
Well, I've never really looked at Varigate 8, but I'd sincerely hope that there's a way. Seriously, NE Bin Seq can easily do this and its UI is literally eight flip switches in a column.

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Re: Basic sequencing rhythm

Post by wrngtrls » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:29 am

Agawell wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:48 am
sorry my fault for typing quickly and not proof reading - you would need to trigger the switch

this is an inexpensive and very useful tool for modular synthesis - doepfer a-151 sequential switch
This is really, really helpful to know about because I'm dealing with the same issue as the author. This can place ratchets and triples on, say, a DFAM sequence so if won't sound so synced with the lead voice? Sometimes I find myself with all the right tones and timbres but in a kind of 1/8 note hell.

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