Analog or digital?

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Shledge
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Post by Shledge » Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:10 pm

I get tired of the new vs. old analogue argument. There are plenty of really decent modern analogues. Golden ears and nostalgia are the main culprits of the vintage lust.

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Post by gonkulator » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:15 pm

Shledge wrote:I get tired of the new vs. old analogue argument. There are plenty of really decent modern analogues. Golden ears and nostalgia are the main culprits of the vintage lust.
I settled the choice some twenty years ago, way before digital synths arrived at "acceptable" bit rates and sample frequencies, or whatever. I couldn't care less. I have plenty of each and don't take a second thought as to what it is.
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Shledge
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Post by Shledge » Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:44 pm

gonkulator wrote:
Shledge wrote:I get tired of the new vs. old analogue argument. There are plenty of really decent modern analogues. Golden ears and nostalgia are the main culprits of the vintage lust.
I settled the choice some twenty years ago, way before digital synths arrived at "acceptable" bit rates and sample frequencies, or whatever. I couldn't care less. I have plenty of each and don't take a second thought as to what it is.
I don't get the point you're trying to make.

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Post by starthief » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:31 pm

Whatever sounds good.

Especially in modular I don't think this is really an issue. Sure, some people insist on 100% analog, but they know that in so doing, they're sacrificing the opportunity to use some synthesis methods and some kinds of versatile utilities. It's still a valid choice.

I do kind of wonder if we're going to see modules based on 90s VA synths. Doepfer A-1XX Virus Filter, anyone? :hihi:

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gonkulator
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Post by gonkulator » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:48 pm

Shledge wrote:
gonkulator wrote:
Shledge wrote:I get tired of the new vs. old analogue argument. There are plenty of really decent modern analogues. Golden ears and nostalgia are the main culprits of the vintage lust.
I settled the choice some twenty years ago, way before digital synths arrived at "acceptable" bit rates and sample frequencies, or whatever. I couldn't care less. I have plenty of each and don't take a second thought as to what it is.
I don't get the point you're trying to make.

Ha, I can imagine. Sorry, I thought I had quoted the OP. (Below) Quite careless of me.
patchnerd wrote:The digital vs analog argument has been going on a long time, and in my mind it's not the same debate it used to be due to high bit/sample rates and cheap processors. With the emergence of 32bit audio and 64bit filters, can digital compete with analog in the synth world? What would convince an analog purist to buy digital?
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lobra
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Post by lobra » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:15 pm

digital modules that you cant tell are digital are always the most fun imo 8-)

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Post by calaveras » Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:31 am

I used to be a teeth gnashing analog purist. I even used to own an 8 track reel to reel deck for recording.
But then I grew up and realized being an analog purist is about as pointless and limiting as being a guitarist who would only play through tube amps.

Don't get me half wrong. There is a certain unique thing to all analog synths, and all tube amplifiers. But digital stuff is fun too.
Heck playing your all analog synth into a digital reverb? Using a transistor fuzz pedal to brutalize yur tube amp?

I like to use all the colors. So I have several analog monosynths, some wavetablers, a digital poly synth and of course digital and analog drum machines.
When I'm making music. I think in terms of sound design, not circuit topology.
Though to be fair, I like digital synths for sub lows that might sound 'analog'. But come out cleaner with more low end on digital synths.

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Post by egg » Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:14 am

not so far almost ten years ago when euro or other analogs were not popular among musicians like today , musicans and music magazines were talking about advantages of vst plugins and their superiority to analog synthsizers

now we are in 2017 not only musicians most of people have analog synths in their setups and they are making music with them.

in digital world there will be always better how many of us are using same plugin which we used 10 years ago ? probably none of us

vst instruments updated like tooth paste almost every week same as for hardware digital synths ı am sure we will be seeing nord electro 25 in five years
and nord electro 25 will be superior to nord electro 5 that produeced today

we can not say the same for analog because analog is about power and character , we can discuss which is better moog modular or moon modular ,
old analog or new analog there will be no definite winner,
if we compare to logic 9 and logic 5 there will be definete winner

investing money to digital is also not logical
they lyied to us they made it very cheap and sold us at least 10 times more than their actual value then realesed updated version of it next month to rob your money one more time

yes vintange analogs are better not only analogs vintange preamps old neumann mics , consoles because there were competiton amongst manufacurer their primary purpose was quality also they were making products for specific tasks every vintage analog had own its character

I see people tallking about some digital modules sounded better or equal to analog ones its due to poor design of euro analog modules this is why ı say if you compare analog and digital compare vintange analog and digital you will see huge differencies in terms of sound quality and character

sory my limited english

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Post by calaveras » Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:18 am

egg wrote: in digital world there will be always better how many of us are using same plugin which we used 10 years ago ? probably none of us
Waldorf Edition. I've been using this VST since about 2006, but in fact PPG 2.V is 17 years old!

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Post by evasporque » Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:20 pm

analog...lose the computer. bleah.

digital effects processors are okay...(really hard to get effects any other way and not spend a bazillion dollars)


I have avoided digital sound making and modding modules in my little performance case build out. But still there is some...

the BeatStep Pro is essentially computer running some sequencers, Lexicon is digital, The PM SV-1 has MIDI to CV converter and 2 digital LFO's...

I record it all with a digital HD video camera with input audio captured at 24/48...so digital is pretty much inescapable.

But I am not a huge fan of digital synths...their nested menus and pre-sets.

I am attracted to Clouds but wonder if it really is all that...or could I do the same thing with a KP3 resampling itself..?

hmmmm....that might be interesting.

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Post by fac » Fri Jul 21, 2017 5:42 pm

egg wrote: in digital world there will be always better how many of us are using same plugin which we used 10 years ago ? probably none of us
I bought most of my plugins in 2005 and still use them (ocassionally) under Audiomulch (which I've also owned for more than 10 years).

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Post by egg » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:39 am

ppg 2v or other vst instruments you have used for 10 years are worn out
there are better ones out there and new ones always will be realesed as better ones

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Post by quixot » Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:29 pm

I use it all! If they came up with something that's neither analog nor digital, I'd probably use that too. Endless sounds out there... I speak as someone who in my broke years crept the streets with a dictaphone recording ac units and subways and combined them with sounds of sine waves from online signal generators on yet more dictaphones and a thrift store keyboard, assembled on a tascam 4 track.

There is no purity. Only sounds! Image

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Post by sasbom » Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:08 pm

As long as it's got knobs to twiddle (or wiggle)

I got a reface dx for cheap one day and I don't mind the menu diving in that,
and my ms20 mini is just full of options.

Synths shouldn't be locked away in menus.

Also, I despise turning virtual knobs with a mouse. It's a pain in the ass.
On my soft synths I'd rather have some sliders or whatever.

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Re: Analog or digital?

Post by addendum » Mon Jul 24, 2017 7:05 pm

patchnerd wrote:The digital vs analog argument has been going on a long time, and in my mind it's not the same debate it used to be due to high bit/sample rates and cheap processors. With the emergence of 32bit audio and 64bit filters, can digital compete with analog in the synth world? What would convince an analog purist to buy digital?
I'm not an analog purist, but I knew I had found my favourite softsynth when my "chaos" patches sounded like analog jn that the feedback paths were so fast as to sound and feel "immediate". Resolution high enough to sonically hide the fact I'm still dealing with discrete instead of continuous time computation also helps, but the immediacy and ability to create true feedback loops is really the decisive factor. Sound can be somewhat lo-fi, there are ways to beef jt up, but immediacy can't be retouched/ simulated. So, the time axis is it for me, not so much the "vertical" factors.

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Re: Analog or digital?

Post by badrumonion » Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:17 am

patchnerd wrote:The digital vs analog argument has been going on a long time, and in my mind it's not the same debate it used to be due to high bit/sample rates and cheap processors. With the emergence of 32bit audio and 64bit filters, can digital compete with analog in the synth world? What would convince an analog purist to buy digital?
Wavetable synthesis is the best thing ever

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Post by gis_sweden » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:02 am

Updated list

Decided to start with modular synth.
Decided to keep it – reasonable - analog.
Decided to avoid menus.
Decided to avoid modules that have software you need to update.
Decisions taken for no other reason than - there was a choice.

This does not stop me from loving digital-PCM/wavetable-synths and samplers,
lo-fi sample based music and the stuff you make on your modular.

#ItsMyModular

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Post by mousegarden » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:21 am

gis_sweden wrote:Updated list

Decided to start with modular synth.
Decided to keep it – reasonable - analog.
Decided to avoid menus.
Decided to avoid modules that have software you need to update.
Decisions taken for no other reason than - there was a choice.

This does not stop me from loving digital-PCM/wavetable-synths and samplers,
lo-fi sample based music and the stuff you make on your modular.

#ItsMyModular
I went your route, but the temptation is still there to explore the modulation possibilities that digital modules have, like having a modular DX7, or a modular Wavestation!

:hihi:

peripatitis

Post by peripatitis » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:21 pm

I could replace with digital probably most modules but filters and basic oscillators. For oscillators i guess if they are doing something mundane i might not realise if they are digital or analogue but filters step out so easily. From the way the resonance evolves, to the saturation, to the way they audio-rate fm, It is just to easy to spot in mostly a negative way.
I am not saying i don't like digital filters because i have in the past (for example the microwave xt ones) but even if the tone is close, the depth of control is not.

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Post by Parnelli » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:41 pm

At the end of the day it's all about getting to the place that you wanna be! If digital gets you there, great, if it's analog, great, if both then great, so long as you arrive at your destination!

If you still have money in your pocket when you get there consider yourself blessed.... :tu:

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Post by Homepage Englisch » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:14 pm

Analog.

That being said, I'm not an analog purist. In my mind,

analog = almost always sounds good.
digital = sounds good when you hit the sweet spot.

But that's just my taste. I'm not fan of hollow, too complex waveforms. That goes even for analog ones: FM and wavefolding is okay if not pushed to the extreme.

I'm also not a fan of aliasing or bit reducing. I don't mind sampling as long as bit rate is of decent quality; i think it's a great and creative tool.

All my sound sources (3+1 on its way) are analog. I am planning to get a few digital ones - Morphagene, Shapeshifter, Basimilas - they look versatile and great fun.

Filters: I want complex, unusual filters. Dual-core stuff like Sara, Aperture and VCF74. By all parameters, it looks I should be a candidate for Morpheus. But it sounds tepid and shallow to my ears. It's stupid to base an opinion on youtube videos, but I have to find one video to prove me otherwise. Is it because the filter is digital? Some software filters on my PC sound beautiful.

Fx: don't care much about tape echo, spring reverb or bucket brigade. Good digital echo is just as good, if not better.

My two cents.

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Post by thevegasnerve » Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:41 pm

peripatitis wrote:I could replace with digital probably most modules but filters and basic oscillators. For oscillators i guess if they are doing something mundane i might not realise if they are digital or analogue but filters step out so easily. From the way the resonance evolves, to the saturation, to the way they audio-rate fm, It is just to easy to spot in mostly a negative way.
I am not saying i don't like digital filters because i have in the past (for example the microwave xt ones) but even if the tone is close, the depth of control is not.
This has been my experience too. Although I haven't tried Diva, maybe that feels more natural?

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Post by heapish » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:24 pm

I started out wanting all analog, Ive now got Braids and a Shapeshifter.
Save up, have both.

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Post by soggybag » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:42 pm

Once those DSP chips got cheap and available it opened up a lot of possibilities that fit in smaller places. At that point it really became hard to knock digital.

The combination of analog in digital is really where it's at.

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Post by wiggy81 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:42 pm

You could I guess have analog devices that were approximations of new ideas for instrumentation from the digital domain. The only issue is space and cost, and of course reliability. It might be possible to make something in Analog that comes close to what modern digital can do in a limited subset. But you have to ask yourself if it really would 'pay' I can't imagine it would bring anything to the table that would justify the cost.

Plus there is the question of what could have been done with the time/space/shekels. Probably a lot more creativity.

Still if the outcome is good then its all worth it, but I don't see many people devoting a room to a device that can replicate what can now be done with a digital box that can sit in a rack.

With all that said, I still love the 19th and early 20th century mechanical music makers. They are engineering marvels and extraordinary skill in manufacturing, tooling and design/craftsmanship must have been developed to make them. Self playing violins, and orchestra in a box machines are really something to see. But the time investment in the creation, the cost of production and maintenance and at the end of it all - it was very different to a human player (group of players.) So the sound is somewhat unique.

Not to beat a dead horse but there are great digital, analog and mechanical tools that can be used. Why not be open to using each for what they are good at to get the effect you want in the most efficient manner.

Not hiding behind a ideology to justify shortcomings in the final product . Lol we all have heard guys saying something like 'Yea my track could have been awesome but you know man.. there is a 'Honesty' in my craft, my analog gear .. didn't you hear the valves when I wiggled? Sure you were asleep by that point but it was all played on non-digital gear.. so respect my process.' It would be like a guy making a less than stellar performance at a concert then slamming the audience 'Yo! I know it sucked - but I played it on a Steinway you peasants! you should be grateful. If i had a synth I could have used all the fancy effects you sluts all want now from your music, but I got heart see.. so I stick to the old school..'

What it misses is you can make interesting and engaging stuff on anything, its a poor craftsman that blames the tools after the fact. What seems to me is people have created a whole myth/ideology to justify this.

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