vermona retroverb lancet - sweet! (with demos)

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vermona retroverb lancet - sweet! (with demos)

Post by matttech » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:46 am

just for the GAS - here's a quick demo of the various drive options available



patch details:

A demo of the lovely drive you can get out of the Vermona Retroverb Lancet.

This uses the GAIN drive, the DRIVE drive, and the BALLS feature (essentially and low and high boost that can be applied even when the filter is bypassed)

There is no filtering, reverb or VCA used - just the three controls described above

I had to juggle the output control a little, as the drive applied by the input GAIN increases the overall level quite a bit. the DRIVE control doesn't

The synth is the cwejman S1 mk2 with no filtering.

Timed Comments:

0.00 - Cwejman S1 dry
0.11 - Retroverb On, increasing GAIN
0.33 - More GAIN
1.00 - Maximum GAIN
1.09 - Increasing the DRIVE setting
1.19 - Back to a normal GAIN setting
1.41 - Maxing out the DRIVE, with GAIN increased too
1.52 - Back to no DRIVE, normal GAIN
2.03 - Gradually boosting the BALLS
2.16 - Introducing some GAIN and DRIVE (on top of the BALLS)
2.37 - Back to the bypassed sound


cheers
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Last edited by matttech on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by matttech » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:12 am

and another - this time showing off the lovely filter:

(SEE TIMED COMMENTS FOR DETAILS!)



Here's a demo of the filter in the Retroverb Lancet. It's REALLY nice, and worth the price alone in my book.

In this demo you'll hear the LP, then BP, then HP.......with various different GAIN, DRIVE and BALLS settings. the modulation is mainly coming from a mix of the original sequence and an envelope from the Cwejman S1 - mixed together in CV Tools and fed into the Retroverb's CV input.

This filter is mainly on the Moogy side of things, leaning towards a slightly overdriven sound even when the DRIVE is at minimum. The initial section shows it at its least driven, and is about as clean as it'll get. Luckily the drive actually sounds really nice anyway, and comes in many different flavours, depending on the various GAIN, DRIVE and BALLS settings (see Overdrive/ Distortion Demo for a further taste of these).

Later on i introduce some FM from the internal LFO, and push the filter into self-oscillation. then i switch the LFO to LO/TR mode - where it is triggered by the incoming audio source - and you can clearly hear it doing a nice sample and hold in time with the incoming audio, so it's DEFINITELY retriggering just fine!

The knobs are a joy to tweak too, having just the right amount of resistance. just perfect

The resonance causes a dip in level when the input GAIN is set so that you get a really clean sound, but once the GAIN if turned up a little this dipping effect disappears. Many other filters behave in a similar way.

all modes of the filter sound excellent, and there is no bleed through it

highly recommended. it reminds me a little of the Pittsburgh filter, and that is no bad thing!

Timed Comments:

0.00 - Dry
0.17 - LP, no resonance
0.35 - resonance increased
0.54 - More resonance again
1.11 - Much higher resonance
1.19 - CV input introduced
1.32 - Back to zero resonance
1.55 - Increased GAIN
2.52 - Bandpass, high GAIN and maybe some DRIVE
3.19 - No bleed!
4.08 - Highpass, with high GAIN
4.27 - Switched to lower GAIN for cleaner sound
5.35 - BALLS added (in Lowpass mode)
Last edited by matttech on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by matttech » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:36 am

and more......this time the envelope



This time round it's the turn of the envelope. In this demo it is merely triggered by the incoming audio

First it's on the VCA alone, then the VCA is bypassed and it's on the filter alone. At points later on it's on both, and the filter is also driven into self-oscillation, with the envelope used to modulate the cutoff

It's snappy as hell, this envelope!

When it's triggered via a gate it becomes an ASR envelope, so if you want to retain the snappiness you need to use a short trigger instead.

Once the envelope is triggered by incoming audio (using the INPUT option in the EG section) this trigger can also be used to retrigger the LFO, as shown in the Filter Demo
Last edited by matttech on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by matttech » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:10 am

and now the reverb:





A demo showing off the Retroverb Lancet's reverb itself.

You can have it in two different modes - either POST or PRE.

In POST the audio input runs through the Filter and VCA before hitting the reverb, and you can blend between the Filtered and VCA'd sound and the original.

In PRE you put the reverb before the Filter and VCA, and can effectively shorten and filter the reverb. in this mode you blend between the original sound and the Filtered and VCA's reverb. the only thing that you CAN'T do is mix between the Filtered and VCA'd reverb and the Filtered and VCA'd audio input - you get 100% reverb signal into the FIlter/VCA

If you wanted to have a filtered and VCA'd signal in addition to a filtered and VCA'd reverb, and then blend between them you would have to use external processing before hitting the Retroverb. Not a big deal, but worth mentioning.

There is also a VERY slight bleed through from the inputted signal when you are using the reverb in POST mode. This is only really noticeable when you have a really low LP cutoff and the TONE of the reverb turned up. turning the TONE down effectively removes the bleed (the reverb's TONE control is actually really nice - when turned clockwise it attenuates bass and boost treble, and when turned anti-clockwise it removes top end and boost low end). The bleed is also only really noticeable when there is no VCF/A (non-reverb) signal present. Normally you are going to want some non-reverberated signal, so it's not going to be an issue in practice. You could always mix externally and filter out the bleed if desired. I noticed this before i bought the unit, and it didn't put me off. There is no bleed at all if the reverb is set to POST, so that's another option.

You can get some neat patterns by using the input signal to trigger the EG on the filter/ VCA, and setting it so it doesn't trigger on every note - this way, the enveloped/ filtered reverb just pops in and out on certain notes. it's certainly very useful being able to filter and alter the length of the spring reverb, as this is the main shortcoming of springs in general. in order to replicate this functionality with modules you'd need an a199 Reverb, mixer, filter, vca and some kind of envelope follower/ comparator to derive triggers from incoming audio.
Last edited by matttech on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by matttech » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:11 am

now onto some tweaked reverb on drums (fairly subtle tweaking, for those of you who are interested in how well you can tailor reverb tails to provide a more varied spring experience):




Another demo - this time showing how you can tailor the reverb using the filter and VCA in PRE mode (reverb goes through the filter and VCA)

I mess about with various settings, shortening and filtering the reverb, and adjusting the SENSE trigger threshold, so that sometimes only the snare is reverberated. The various tone controls (TONE and BALLS) come in handy, providing a wide range of different reverb tones.

Obviously the EG on the reverb could be independently triggered for even more specific control, but in this instance it is merely triggered from the incoming audio signal.
Last edited by matttech on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Barfunkel » Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:56 am

Sweet demos! I've been thinking of getting one of these babies, even more so now.

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Post by DonKartofflo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:24 pm

Oh god the balls and drive are awesome! And I have never heard anything retrigger this nicely from an external input!
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Post by suboptimal » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:49 am

Great demos, thanks. Sounds like a great piece of gear.

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Post by matttech » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:51 am

sure is! :tu:

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Post by matttech » Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:04 pm

WELLL.....


just did a shootout between all my lowpass filters (gonna do other modes/ FM in a bit)

and the Vermona comes out on top! this is obviously very personal and subjective....but it certainly has the most low end oomph - and that's without any of the drive/ Balls settings engaged, which enhance it even more.....and the nicest sounding sweeps at low AND high resonance

beats:

Pittsburgh Filter
z2040
a124 Wasp
Blue Lantern Diode
Blue Lantern LM4250 Polivoks
Cwejman S1 LPF
Cwejman S1 MMF

who'd have thought??

it's hard to put the others in any kind of "order", as some are very different-sounding (eg: LM4250), maybe oozing with character, but having certain flaws (bleed, instability etc...)

interesting........

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Post by jumbomonkey » Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:40 pm

matttech wrote:WELLL.....


just did a shootout between all my lowpass filters (gonna do other modes/ FM in a bit)

and the Vermona comes out on top! this is obviously very personal and subjective....but it certainly has the most low end oomph - and that's without any of the drive/ Balls settings engaged, which enhance it even more.....and the nicest sounding sweeps at low AND high resonance

beats:

Pittsburgh Filter
z2040
a124 Wasp
Blue Lantern Diode
Blue Lantern LM4250 Polivoks
Cwejman S1 LPF
Cwejman S1 MMF

who'd have thought??

it's hard to put the others in any kind of "order", as some are very different-sounding (eg: LM4250), maybe oozing with character, but having certain flaws (bleed, instability etc...)

interesting........

Yup, thanks a lot for that it really clarified what I need to get next. Also means I won't end up with some units I don't need, because I will get this instead of the A-199 ...not sure how the spring reverbs compare but it will be fine I recon.

The one thing I was confused about is differences (if any) in sound between the Retroverb, and Retroverb Lancet. I've contacted Vermona to find out, and I can write it up here if theres anything interesting to report.

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Post by noobyscooby » Sun Jul 07, 2013 11:10 pm

Might have to hit this. I wanted a T-resonator forever and got one this week and am just not feeling it. Won't miss having a delay as I have plenty of those.

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Post by IR » Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:19 am

Excellent demos, go far beyond those made by Vermona (although those are interesting too). Even sounds like delay at times.

I'm not really sure it's fair to compare it to filter modules, it seems the signal will still go through the various parts of the circuit even if you don't use the LFO or trigger the EG. And there's certainly an amp at the end with that volume control.

Still, now I see the full potential of the unit. I have been thinking about this for a while, it is kind of expensive, but a very nice reverb plus lots of other features.

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Post by jumbomonkey » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:56 am

Very nice.

I was doing a shootout between a lot of different Monosynths tonight, and reviewing my choice on purchasing the Minibrute. I was surprised to find the Vermona seemed to come out very well compared to the competition.

Do you know if the filters across the whole range are the same as on the retroverb?

They sound so clear and wide, very powerful.

Its a really difficult decision now whether its the Lancet Mono, Filter or Retroverb flavour I will choose for now, but its those filters and the synth that would be most important for my productions and my workflow I recon.

There seem like a real lack of good reverbs out there so I've heard, I'd love to do a blind test to review the few available would be cool.

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Post by Tooths » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:57 am

Great demos. The filter sounds great, so much great :tu:

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Post by bollyhood » Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:10 am

really nice demos, wondering how this compares to the knas moisturizer. anyone who tried both?

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Post by Cymatics » Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:45 am

I've got a retroverb lancet arriving any day now, so I will post here with my comparison. From the demos I've seen researching the vermona, I get the impression the filter is a little more 'consistent' or stable.

The main selling point for me was the envelope follower/LFO sync which seems more suited for putting drums through it, the main thing I currently use the knas for. Also the filter can be pre reverb on the Vermona without modification.

Granted i'm a sucker for spring reverb, but I think they'll be varied enough to hang on to both. I think it will be really cool to have both units' cutoff frequencies modulated from the same LFO for some weird stereo action.

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Post by johnnylonz » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:54 pm

Wow, now I really want one of these! And here I thought my z2040 was king of the low end.

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Post by Cymatics » Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:14 am

I spent a couple of hours with the retroverb today and I'm blown away by how much it can do. I'm away from my house so only had a Nintendo/Korg ds-10 to put through it, but it turned a simple electro style beat into a pumping chewy groove. (Sorry to use such a subjective term but that's the best description!!!)
The retriggering EG / LFO can make it sound like the beat has been flipped in reverse among other things.

It's definitely more to my liking for creating solid rhythmic parts, compared to the moisturizer which isn't as tight for lack of a better word, even when being controlled by the EG from an mf-101 ( is that attributed to the lack of resonance limiting?)

It definitely works better for me than the Sherman FB2 , and the drive\gain can get as nasty as I require.
I thought it was kind of pricey but it's money well spent, I was amazed at the range of sounds even before bringing the reverb into the equation.

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Post by jumbomonkey » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:01 pm

Cymatics wrote:I spent a couple of hours with the retroverb today and I'm blown away by how much it can do. I'm away from my house so only had a Nintendo/Korg ds-10 to put through it, but it turned a simple electro style beat into a pumping chewy groove. (Sorry to use such a subjective term but that's the best description!!!)
The retriggering EG / LFO can make it sound like the beat has been flipped in reverse among other things.

It's definitely more to my liking for creating solid rhythmic parts, compared to the moisturizer which isn't as tight for lack of a better word, even when being controlled by the EG from an mf-101 ( is that attributed to the lack of resonance limiting?)

It definitely works better for me than the Sherman FB2 , and the drive\gain can get as nasty as I require.
I thought it was kind of pricey but it's money well spent, I was amazed at the range of sounds even before bringing the reverb into the equation.
Thanks for that, its great to hear.. I've bought one recently, almost spent the money on an FB2, though I think this was suited better to my needs. I've not heard much of the Moisturizer but tight envelopes are enough to turn me on to the vermona ...

Damn, guys I'll make no bones about it, I'm looking for a Retroverb thread because I'm after my first, and not the last ..strong high after using this device... who would have thought just a little box of filter and reverb could make me so happy?! Well, this thing does deep dark atmosphere and wonky batshit crazy all in the one box, and all with the kind of atmosphere that would make any dark techno / ambient fan weep! :D

The one thing I'll say is to watch your levels, this thing seems to quiet to fast alarmingly fast sometimes, and I'm curious to hear other opinions on that. I'd be afraid to blow a soundsystem in some nightclub. Added to that, if your playing in very loud venues with vibrations, the reverb springs will resonate and create some wanted or unwanted noise... just thinking ahead really.

All in all though, this is my new dirty little secret... paired up with an mbase 11, I'm in dark techno heaven :D

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Post by jumbomonkey » Sun Jul 28, 2013 8:03 pm

duplicate post

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Post by xtront » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:38 pm

a while ago I made those two videos with the Retroverb Lancet:


[video][/video]


[video][/video]
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Post by jcn7 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:09 am

I just discovered a new use for my Retroverb...I am cranking the resonance as high as it will go and causing the filter to self oscillate, and running it's output into my new Circuit Abbey G8 Clock divider. I'm then taking multiple clock division outputs into a mixer and to a final output. The result is generating some basic (G8) chords with this setup....it's really quite cool to find new ways of using each piece of gear. :tu:
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Post by Cymatics » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:34 am

Wow that's cool. Do you have any audio examples of it?

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Post by jcn7 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:33 am

OK, here is a quick demo I just did before work this AM....


http://soundcloud.com/jcn7/g8-chords-harmonic-series



...and here is the explanation of the patch:

Hi all, this was an experiment using my Vermona Retroverb Lancet (I'm cranking the Filter to self resonate as a oscillator) and running it's output into a Euro Lunchbox system. I'm driving a Circuit Abbey G8 clock divider from the Retroverb's output at high frequencies to illustrate how you can use the G8 as a "multiple" oscillator making some chords/harmonic series with it. I'm running 3 of the G8's clock divisions (1,3, and 5) out into a Make Noise MMG filter which is being modulated by a brain seed module. The brain seed module is being clocked by the "EOS" of my updated Phonogene. I also have a Delptronics LDB-1e drum module (Wood Block and Bass drum) being pinged from the G8 (7, and 8 outputs) and being fed into the 2nd input of the MMG filter. The MMG filter goes to a final output into a delay pedal. I also was using my Arturia Minibrute (CV out) to modulate the Retroverb's filter...you can hear towards the beginning I was using the arp section of the Minibrute, while later I was just playing the keyboard to alter the Retroverbs filter. All in all an interesting experiment, and now others can use their clock dividers as a complex multi oscillator.

Also to note : some of the modes on the G8 gave me different chords/harmonic series and the "CV" and "random" mode gave me a kind of noise sound. All cool stuff!


Thanks for listening!
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Fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person. For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil. (Solomon)

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