Which delay unit?

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Which delay unit?

Post by wetterberg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:17 am

- looking for some good delay pedals for a performance system (including feedback mixer)
obviously I'm already jonesing for the Malekko euro rack unit, BUT:

a) I will need several delay lines for my project, and they ain't all gonna Malekkos (unless I get a sponsorship! :eek: )
b) I'm also looking for different flavours/hackability and such.

Ideally something in the bandlimited "analog emulation" or real analog department, or with an internal filter of some other kind. Filtering is essential in delay lines.
If not, then something supremely digital; adjusting delay times make it sound all gnarly and glitchy.

So, in terms of specs I'm all about small and/or inexpensive, but won't mind second hand stuff. There's really one place where I :am: firm, and that's in the need for a full wet signal - this rules out the otherwise perfect MXR carbon copy pedal :-( (PS, if anyone knows an easy mod to make this fully wet, lemme know!)

cheers,
Andreas.

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Post by drewtoothpaste » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:33 pm

When I had a 4x4 matrix mixer I used four of these digitech RDS boxes plus some other pedals/fx:

http://www.loopers-delight.com/tools/ti ... chine.html

They sound grimy at the longer delay times, which I liked (if you're feeding them back into each other, you want them to be non-linear, right?)

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Post by Kent » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:48 pm

Not inexpensive, but is probably the 'best' delay in modular land:


Image

It does everything that you mentioned. It has a 'light' filtering ability called 'damping'. If you need a more aggressive/resonant filtering setup, you can stick a filter in the feedback path. The external loop path can be pre-/post-effect as well. Cool stuff.

Sometimes, it is worth it just to buy something once. This thing does many flavors of delay and even sampling. In the long run, it's a 'win' and money saver.

Add the RS295 and synch to MIDI and also get another assignable gate input and potentiometer.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:58 pm

Have you considered the cheapo DD400 Behringer? A bunch of people on the synthesizers.com list have been having good success with them. And for only $30 each . . . I bet 6 of them hacked in behind a single modular panel would make a sweet unit for under $200! :eek: Just think of all the cool serial and parallel patches that could be made with six seperate delay units . . . .

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Post by Soy Sos » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:40 pm

Yeah the 100% wet requirement is the issue. I have this great old Morley
that does full wet signal. Do you have local access to used music stores.
I guess keep an eye out and try out a bunch of crap. All my other cheap
pedals only do max level not wet/dry. Too bad those shitty cheap behringer
pedals wouldn't work. You could do a mountain of them as some kind of
feedback installation. What type of delay times are you looking for?

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Post by felix » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:42 pm

It's pricey, but I've yet to come across a delay that I liked more than the Moog MF-104 (save for the RE-201 maybe).

Not only does it have a patchable feedback loop (with a switch on the front panel no less), but it also has a wide gain stage (both for input and the feedback loop), and a mix control. Patchable feedback on a delay is almost a requirement for me now. Ever put ring mod in the feedback loop of a delay?! That shit is awesome.

Also, it has CV control of delay time, feedback, and mix.

And, it has a dedicated 100% wet output in addition to the normal "mix" output.

I've been seriously considering a 2nd one (stereo!!!), but I'm waiting to hear the Malekko Euro module.
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Post by wetterberg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:11 pm

see you can always count on you great people to drop some knowledge! :sb:
In a perfect world I'd get a rack of 4 or 6 of the RS290s, but honestly it's way too big and too expensive for my needs. Same with the Moogerfooger... it's an intriguing piece of kit, but too expensive and too big. Feedback loops? That's what my matrix mixer will be for; I'd have the feedback on the device set to 0%, or slightly above that, I never do the feedback on the device itself ;)

I must admit to being drawn to the multi-Behringer solution - in fact, I might go for a mixture of different ultra-cheap delays, in part well, because of the price, but also because their circuits are particularly tiny. Items like the Danelectro Fab Echo can be hacked to be 100% wet, can be hacked for much longer - and variable - delay times (it's basically the PT23** chip from Princeton Tech inside it). The circuit is tiny; two little 1x1 inch boards and a power clip.

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Post by rezzn8r » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:38 pm

I also love my MF104. the CV control is great, but you're right about the size of the unit. it is rather large for a uni-tasker.
Too bad those shitty cheap behringer
pedals wouldn't work. You could do a mountain of them as some kind of
feedback installation.
the image of a 'Mountain' of shitty pedals wired together as a tangled feedback installation piece has me really excited. thanks

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Post by wetterberg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:41 pm

Soy Sos wrote:Too bad those shitty cheap behringer
pedals wouldn't work. You could do a mountain of them as some kind of
feedback installation. What type of delay times are you looking for?
oh that mountain is still very much in my sights. I don't know that they won't work though - the MXR won't, that's all I know (and I go over these youtube vids quite frantically these days)

Longish would be good, but will trade that in for character (as one does with a BBD, usually)

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Post by felix » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:11 pm

I hope you'll share whatever you come up with. Hacked delays with a matrix mixer sounds like a lot of fun.
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Post by wetterberg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:22 pm

felix wrote:I hope you'll share whatever you come up with. Hacked delays with a matrix mixer sounds like a lot of fun.
yeah mate, will do!

Currently looking at an unusual suspect, the Marshall Echohead. It's small, built like a tank, sounds wonderful, really tweakable, and it has the "spill-over output" aka "it'll be in mono, but will give you a wet and a dry output".

Reverse, analogue emu, 2second delay time, tap tempo input, etc. etc. Sort of mid-range pricewise, but I might be able to swing two of them, and then two cheap ones.

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Post by dkcg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:38 pm

felix wrote:It's pricey, but I've yet to come across a delay that I liked more than the Moog MF-104 (save for the RE-201 maybe).

Not only does it have a patchable feedback loop (with a switch on the front panel no less), but it also has a wide gain stage (both for input and the feedback loop), and a mix control. Patchable feedback on a delay is almost a requirement for me now. Ever put ring mod in the feedback loop of a delay?! That shit is awesome.

Also, it has CV control of delay time, feedback, and mix.

And, it has a dedicated 100% wet output in addition to the normal "mix" output.

I've been seriously considering a 2nd one (stereo!!!), but I'm waiting to hear the Malekko Euro module.
I love the Moog Delay (I have the 104z) and the CVs work great! But...I find it to be a little dark, I'm not sure if the original 104's are as dark, but the 104z is a little dark, and doesn't get fast enough for Karplus stuff. It's a great delay, but I use it more for echo effects.

The Analogue Systems RS-390 Echo is awesome. It's digital, but I don't hear any zippering or artifacting when doing quick sweeps of delay length or in a Karplus patch, and it's also stereo (as the 104z is). And it's a few hundred less than the sampler delay (if you don't need the sample functions). It's also got the damping of the echo depth, which makes for some nice plucked sounds or muted string type dynamics. I was waiting for the Malekko or the Cwejman delay modules, but dammit, couldn't wait (I'm an impatient bastard).

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Post by Chuck E. Jesus » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:45 pm

do you have to have pedal format?

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:19 pm

I've got a used COTK C1680 on it's way to me. On the expensive side compared to those little Behringer cheapies but I couldn't resist the features and of course the look of the thing! :hyper:

Image

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Post by dkcg » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:46 pm

JohnLRice wrote:I've got a used COTK C1680 on it's way to me. On the expensive side compared to those little Behringer cheapies but I couldn't resist the features and of course the look of the thing! :hyper:

Image
For a second there I was like "What's a Bode doing in a delay thread?" :lol:

Babaluma

Post by Babaluma » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:45 am

multiple blacet time machines if you can find them?

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:51 am

damn... I think my build ideas may have been put on hold until I get this puppy out of my system:
http://www.akaipro.com/apc40

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Post by DGTom » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:58 am

wetterberg wrote:damn... I think my build ideas may have been put on hold until I get this puppy out of my system:
http://www.akaipro.com/apc40
Whoa!

Pretty ugly... but.... those buttons!!!

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:00 am

DGTom wrote:
wetterberg wrote:damn... I think my build ideas may have been put on hold until I get this puppy out of my system:
http://www.akaipro.com/apc40
Whoa!

Pretty ugly... but.... those buttons!!!
yeah man, and as a Max patcher I get pretty excited when reading stuff like:
It’s quite fortuitous for Live users that’s we’ve worked for Akai at this time, as it coincides with our product partnership with Cycling 74, Max for Live. Owners of the APC40 who also own Max for Live can change the way the APC40 controls Live, and completely customize their experience. This means things like step sequencers and drum rack support and other things that only feel right with hardware will now be available for people who own these two great products. The boundaries of what you can do with complete customization and hundreds of LEDs are infinite.

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Post by DGTom » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:11 am

Crazy!!!!

Only thing that bugs me, well 2 things, about all these controllers is 8 & throwing to much stuff in. Maybe its because I use Ableton kinda in a really minimal way, I don't really need 16 knobs & 9 faders!

this tho:
The clip matrix gives you an instant view of clip status: what's loaded, what's playing, and what's being recorded. Each state displays on the matrix in a different color so you can get a quick picture of clip state.
is teh awezomez!!!!

but its still 2 channels short to fit my way of working! I need 10 channels :mad:

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:14 am

DGTom wrote:Crazy!!!!

Only thing that bugs me, well 2 things, about all these controllers is 8 & throwing to much stuff in. Maybe its because I use Ableton kinda in a really minimal way, I don't really need 16 knobs & 9 faders!
I would agree there - make a lil' box with just the clip matrix and I'm 110% sold.
DGTom wrote: but its still 2 channels short to fit my way of working! I need 10 channels :mad:
I'm pretty sure it'll be bankable both horizontally (tracks) and vertically (scenes). I guess we'll find out later today!

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:20 am

Image

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Post by DGTom » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:28 am

wetterberg wrote:I'm pretty sure it'll be bankable both horizontally (tracks) and vertically (scenes). I guess we'll find out later today!
Yeah, I ignore banks. When it comes to live its 1 knob = 1 function for me.
wetterberg wrote:make a lil' box with just the clip matrix and I'm 110% sold.
I would buy 2! 'Look maah I'ma real DJ now!!!!'

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Post by wetterberg » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:31 am

DGTom wrote:
wetterberg wrote:I'm pretty sure it'll be bankable both horizontally (tracks) and vertically (scenes). I guess we'll find out later today!
Yeah, I ignore banks. When it comes to live its 1 knob = 1 function for me.
wetterberg wrote:make a lil' box with just the clip matrix and I'm 110% sold.
I would buy 2! 'Look maah I'ma real DJ now!!!!'
Same here! I would buy two, and I HATE banking around. But it does seem like the most full package ever, doesn't it?

drool, drool, drool. Damn.

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Post by DGTom » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:00 am

For sure, I bet they sell a few just because of the clip matrix, the only other thing I can think of that has anything like it is the faderfox jobbie, but that doesn't have anything like the kind of feedback this has.

Def. one step closer to not having to look at the screen, which is really the goal I think.

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