Roland TR8S questions

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evs
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Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:27 am

hey people,
i have mild GAS for a roland tr8s.
now there are some questions i can not answer from looking into the manual. or maybe i just don´t understand it completely.

is it possible to have some of the individual outputs set to trigger and some to variable outs?
reason is, i would like to have the basedrum on a single output, but the other outputs i would like to send trigger outs..

so, possible or not?

plus, anyone had ever problems triggering your eurorack with those variable outputs set to trigger?
my machinedrum does it bravely, how does the tr8s does it?

so far so good, thanks!

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by qu.one » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:42 am

Certainly not the answer you're looking for (don't have a TR8S), but if you want to send triggers from a chasing x0x, why not just get a Beatstep Pro? Doesn't generate a tone, but there are plenty of kick drum modules and would be significantly cheaper.

When I had the MD, I used it to do what you do with yours all the time. Are you simply looking for more triggers more than tone generation?
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:48 am

no, i also look for tone generation... i have the machinedrum but miss sometimes the imediancy of what i would think the tr8s might have:-)
but the critical factor for me is if the tr8s can also fullfill the named things.
the beatstep thing is a neat idea but to buy a drum machine in modules is.. expenisve:-)
and i had the bsp in the past and i´m not a huge fan of its worflow..

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:16 am

oh great, i think the routing stuff works, as i saw in this video:

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Tajnost » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:03 am

It works

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:11 am

Tajnost wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:03 am
It works
:tu: FACTS
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by 3hands » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:15 am

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:11 am
Tajnost wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:03 am
It works
:tu: FACTS
The more you know.....
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by 3hands » Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:15 am

Bloody double post.
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Richard deHove » Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:30 pm

The TR8s is fantastic as a trigger source. I had mine set up with six dedicated trigger outs while retaining basic drum machine functions. I sold it because I wanted pitch info along with all those triggers. In that pursuit I cycled through a range of other hardware and sequencers. In hindsight I should have stuck with the TR8s . . .

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:15 pm

good lord, its all your fault that i need to have it.
get away from me, satan!

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:29 pm

evs wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:15 pm
good lord, its all your fault that i need to have it.
get away from me, satan!
its such a great box overall. its looks very sleek in person too, a major step up aesthetically from the original TR8. that brings me to my next point: id like a TR8S MK2. it would be great if we can get all the knobby hands on voice control of the TR8 with all the extras the TR8S offers. a small toggle switch for hi-hat chokes would be handy and of course dedicated individual outputs per voice.
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:45 pm

So the tr8 had more parameters to tweak than the tr8s?

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:25 pm

evs wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:45 pm
So the tr8 had more parameters to tweak than the tr8s?
yes, you had more real time control over certain parameters.
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:26 pm

primarily in the kick and snare but thats where you really do need it the most
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by vadimred13 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 11:02 pm

Treat yourself to a tr8s. It is crazy fun to play with. I don't think it's the best sounding drum machine with the stock sounds, but it's so much fun to play with that it more than makes up for it. Every time I start messing with it I end up spending hours jamming. Def my fave machine for improv/jamming. And the newest FM firmware update is pretty decent too.

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:19 am

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:25 pm
evs wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:45 pm
So the tr8 had more parameters to tweak than the tr8s?
yes, you had more real time control over certain parameters.
But you still can tweak those over the menu now?
Are they too deep hidden?

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by evs » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:20 am

Plus, how does the tr8s compare to the mc707?

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by 3lbFlax » Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:58 am

evs wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:19 am
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:25 pm
evs wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:45 pm
So the tr8 had more parameters to tweak than the tr8s?
yes, you had more real time control over certain parameters.
But you still can tweak those over the menu now?
Are they too deep hidden?
The 8S is less flexible than the 707 here. Both have the level slider and three knobs per track, but on the 707 you can freely assign the three knobs to any parameter than can be modulated. On the 8S, you only have one assignable knob - the others are bound to tune and decay.

So on the 707 it's possible to set up direct and simultaneous access to, say, filter frequency, resonance and filter envelope depth, but on the 8S you're limited to one of those at a time. You can still tweak everything in the menu system, but only one parameter can be made 'live'.

In both cases you can also only motion record / lock the physical knobs, not specific parameters - so if you set a knob to cutoff and motion record a filter sweep, you can't change the assignment of the knob without also changing the target of the sweep. This is more of a limitation on the 8S - it means you can only commit to motion recording one assignable parameter per sound. However you can of course use an LFO, for example, to modulate parameters in the background - and the 8S doesn't have the synthesis depth of the 707, so one assignable parameter is usually enough.

As to how they compare - I've not had the 8S as long, but I think I prefer it, though it's certainly more limited (or focused) than the 707. There are a few outstanding 707 bugs / design features that are big deals for me, but I haven't found anything similar on the 8S yet.

The 8S is much more mature as an arranger, I think - you've got an excellent variation and autofill setup, so although there's no song mode, there's enough to compensate (though it's clearly designed to be played as much as sequenced). The 707's clip system is incomplete in my opinion, and the bug (surely a bug) that causes chained clips to truncate the sound makes the chaining practically worthless. If they fix that, it has a lot of potential - but I find operating it live to be fussy.

The 707 is definitely broader, and has some excellent features. It's better equipped to be a centrepiece because it samples, includes a full synth element, and has a much more flexible MIDI sequencing setup. As a drum machine, and probably as a performance piece, I'd choose the 8S over the 707. But the 707 fills a lot of roles, without a doubt - it just needs some more attention from Roland.

Hopefully that makes sense (I'm starting to wonder), but if you have any questions I'll do my best...

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:45 am

evs wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:19 am
Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:25 pm
evs wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:45 pm
So the tr8 had more parameters to tweak than the tr8s?
yes, you had more real time control over certain parameters.
But you still can tweak those over the menu now?
Are they too deep hidden?
no they’re not too deep but they’re not directly on the panel either. just a feature I would’ve like for them to have kept.
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:50 am

evs wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 7:20 am
Plus, how does the tr8s compare to the mc707?
they’re completely different IMO. the TR8S is a drum machine that has some performance features, but still your basic TR XoX style box. its a workhorse for percussion duties. it also uses the ACB technology.

the 707 is a groovebox. consider it a hardware workstation, an all in one machine. it does not have the ACB tech, it uses zen core.

depending on what your needs are you might fair better with one or the other.....or both?
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Bath House » Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:35 am

I recently got an 8S after years of using the regular -8 every day. The 8S really rules in general and feels like a nice upgrade. But:

- there's no global assigning of individual outputs, which makes me INSANE. It has to be set and saved per kit.
- the menu diving is really bad for everything other than the front panel controls. They did it better on Roland gear 20+ years ago than this. Bad. Really a shame considering there are some really cool parameters buried in there but they are BURIED.
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by 3lbFlax » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:41 am

Bath House wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:35 am
I recently got an 8S after years of using the regular -8 every day. The 8S really rules in general and feels like a nice upgrade. But:

- there's no global assigning of individual outputs, which makes me INSANE. It has to be set and saved per kit.
- the menu diving is really bad for everything other than the front panel controls. They did it better on Roland gear 20+ years ago than this. Bad. Really a shame considering there are some really cool parameters buried in there but they are BURIED.
The outputs don't really bother me, but the menu diving is a fair point - I think with the 8S you get the best out of it if you can find the time to set a kit up fully in advance, so you've decided where you want to LFO to go and what you want assigned to the CTRL knob. It does break your flow if you want to head in and edit anything later on. This is less of a problem on the 707, where you have three assignable knobs and the larger screen and dedicated knobs for editing - it's still a bit of a chore, but no more so than any synth that doesn't have 1:1 controls.

My #1 8S feature request, I think, would be an option to set all the track FX sends to zero, which I've seen other people complain about. If you want to actually use the delay you almost certainly don't want everything going into it at 100%, so this is a baffling design choice - of which there are a few on these units, but the positives are definitely in the majority.

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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:50 am

Bath House wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:35 am
I recently got an 8S after years of using the regular -8 every day. The 8S really rules in general and feels like a nice upgrade. But:

- there's no global assigning of individual outputs, which makes me INSANE. It has to be set and saved per kit.
- the menu diving is really bad for everything other than the front panel controls. They did it better on Roland gear 20+ years ago than this. Bad. Really a shame considering there are some really cool parameters buried in there but they are BURIED.
no global control over the outputs is annoying, hopefully they consider it for the next update.

what Roland units are you referring to 20+ years ago?
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by Bath House » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:45 pm

Red Electric Rainbow wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:50 am
Bath House wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 10:35 am
I recently got an 8S after years of using the regular -8 every day. The 8S really rules in general and feels like a nice upgrade. But:

- there's no global assigning of individual outputs, which makes me INSANE. It has to be set and saved per kit.
- the menu diving is really bad for everything other than the front panel controls. They did it better on Roland gear 20+ years ago than this. Bad. Really a shame considering there are some really cool parameters buried in there but they are BURIED.
no global control over the outputs is annoying, hopefully they consider it for the next update.

what Roland units are you referring to 20+ years ago?
I'm specifically thinking of the MC-505 and the MC-909 after it, both of which had exponentially better and less menu-heavy interfaces than the TR-8S and the MC-707 for very similar devices. It's really a shame.
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Re: Roland TR8S questions

Post by rens » Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:39 pm

3lbFlax wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:41 am
My #1 8S feature request, I think, would be an option to set all the track FX sends to zero
That drives me spare. Whoever made that decision should have to sit in a small brightly lit room listening to ‘Berlin flyover’ for a month.

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