Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

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KSS
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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:14 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:49 pm
One thing I am a bit surprised to see is the long wire runs with little or no strain relief, allowing the weight of the wires to pull on the connectors. Not the best practice.
Agreed. Especially considering the flight box angle, insinuating this is designed for touring. If I were, I'd get it to a tech to install proper support. There does appear to be some case mounted tie supports. But nothing on those oever the PCB runs.
dashwood wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:07 pm
I've no idea what would be considered best practice here but those wires don't look heavy enough to put any significant strain on the connectors.
You'd be surprised. Road vibration and shock loads amplify that light load into something problemmatic. Proper support would use P-clamps or similar through some of the available PCB mouting screws.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by EPTC » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:16 pm

MarkSinister wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 5:03 pm
image.jpgARP 2600 FS arrived today. Ordered from Music Matter in the UK.
Holy moley, beautiful. Definitely a chapter in "How Best to Self Isolate" - Enjoy!

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Dave Peck » Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:45 pm

KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:14 pm

dashwood wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:07 pm
I've no idea what would be considered best practice here but those wires don't look heavy enough to put any significant strain on the connectors.
You'd be surprised. Road vibration and shock loads amplify that light load into something problemmatic. Proper support would use P-clamps or similar through some of the available PCB mouting screws.
Yup. The issue is not the harness-mounted connector housings getting pulled enough to disconnect them from the mating PCB connectors, it is the tiny crimp connections at the ends of the individual wires that are down inside the plastic multi-pin housings. When the wire lengths start flapping and bouncing, it induces repeated stress directly on these miniature crimp connections at the wire ends. All of those wire lengths should be physically secured to some stationary surface about two inches away from the connector to prevent this.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by dashwood » Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:51 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:45 pm
KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:14 pm

dashwood wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:07 pm
I've no idea what would be considered best practice here but those wires don't look heavy enough to put any significant strain on the connectors.
You'd be surprised. Road vibration and shock loads amplify that light load into something problemmatic. Proper support would use P-clamps or similar through some of the available PCB mouting screws.
Yup. The issue is not the harness-mounted connector housings getting pulled enough to disconnect them from the mating PCB connectors, it is the tiny crimp connections at the ends of the individual wires that are down inside the plastic multi-pin housings. When the wire lengths start flapping and bouncing, it induces repeated stress directly on these miniature crimp connections at the wire ends. All of those wire lengths should be physically secured to some stationary surface about two inches away from the connector to prevent this.
Ah I see, interesting. Appreciate the insight guys.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:50 pm

Interesting commentary... Pulling the trigger on one was already a stretch for me, but out of the door with electromagnetic noise in the reverb is a bit strange.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:10 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:50 pm
Interesting commentary... Pulling the trigger on one was already a stretch for me, but out of the door with electromagnetic noise in the reverb is a bit strange.
Not really. The reverb was always a sore point on the originals. Look at it this way. Korg has to tread a line between making it the same as the old ones, and fixing it up for modern use. Which then exposes them to problems of a different kind. Also the electromagnetic spectrum worldwide is FAR different than the old ones faced. Korg is required by law to use a switching power supply, which the originals did not.

And then you've got a whole new crowd of puchasers with different expectations, some having only used newer synths. Fairly big ticket item for some and for others, just a modern sense that everything should work everywhere all the time. And the 2600 has been hyped for so long that intense scrutiny of everything is a given.

None of these alone adds up to the problem. But combined, it's not a stretch to understand why at least a few people would have and report a 'problem'.
I doubt there's a synth on the planet which doesn't have, or wouldn't have 'problems' somewhere on the planet with some customer.

Our modern connectivity amplifies the minute into something bigger.

I have no doubt the 'problem' is much less than a glance at posts online might suggest. More importantly, there's no way it's not a fixable 'problem'.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:21 pm

KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:10 pm
Divinital_ wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:50 pm
Interesting commentary... Pulling the trigger on one was already a stretch for me, but out of the door with electromagnetic noise in the reverb is a bit strange.
Not really. The reverb was always a sore point on the originals. Look at it this way. Korg has to tread a line between making it the same as the old ones, and fixing it up for modern use. Which then exposes them to problems of a different kind. Also the electromagnetic spectrum worldwide is FAR different than the old ones faced. Korg is required by law to use a switching power supply, which the originals did not.

And then you've got a whole new crowd of puchasers with different expectations, some having only used newer synths. Fairly big ticket item for some and for others, just a modern sense that everything should work everywhere all the time. And the 2600 has been hyped for so long that intense scrutiny of everything is a given.

None of these alone adds up to the problem. But combined, it's not a stretch to understand why at least a few people would have and report a 'problem'.
I doubt there's a synth on the planet which doesn't have, or wouldn't have 'problems' somewhere on the planet with some customer.

Our modern connectivity amplifies the minute into something bigger.

I have no doubt the 'problem' is much less than a glance at posts online might suggest. More importantly, there's no way it's not a fixable 'problem'.
There's no real need to quote the word problem every time you use it, I get your opinion after the first one. However it's factually a non-quote problem to someone else.

I'm not cancelling my order, as a classically trained musician $6,000+ was not unheard of for an average instrument, but they're handcrafted pieces of metalwork, not a limited scale production of an electronic instrument made with a variety of mass produced components ranging from cheap to expensive.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by KSS » Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:02 pm

Divinital_ wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:21 pm
There's no real need to quote the word problem every time you use it, I get your opinion after the first one. However it's factually a non-quote problem to someone else.
Yes. Precisely why I did *not* scare quote it every time. Or did you miss that in your rush to judgement?

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by galanter2 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:06 am

KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:10 pm
Korg is required by law to use a switching power supply, which the originals did not.
Why is that? Which law where? IDGI

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by tobb » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:45 am

KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 pm
estin wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!
Haterz gonna hate.
Its not about hating,its about been screwed and paying at least $2k too much..

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by dashwood » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:16 am

tobb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:45 am
KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 pm
estin wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!
Haterz gonna hate.
Its not about hating,its about been screwed and paying at least $2k too much..
The guy that did the teardown thinks it's priced about right.

One of his comments below the article:

" If you first consider the following points:
material costs
Labor costs
Prototyping costs / development
Profit
Taxes
transport
Risk premium
Aftersales / support / manuals / firmware etc.

Then you take into account the two hand-made housings in terms of wages and materials, which you can't get really cheap even on CNC wood milling machines, not even in Asia.
The pcbs cost almost nothing, nor do the SMT components. (Approx. 100 € for everything)
It only gets “expensive” with the sockets and sliders.
The panel does not cost the world either (20-50 €).
What takes several hours is putting it together.
The roadcase probably costs another 100 € (presumably through external)
All in all, that fits with € 4,000.
We also want them to benefit and are willing to continue building more of them."

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Xmit » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:56 am

both excited & scared to see people in the UK getting them at last....

where the actual F is mine then ?!! ;)

Ok - I can wait.

I paid on credit card at least, so if Kenny's Music goes bust because of COVID-19 I should be ok...

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by blw » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:57 am

tobb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:45 am
KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 pm
estin wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!
Haterz gonna hate.
Its not about hating,its about been screwed and paying at least $2k too much..
There have been many similar priced products, including "pro" DIY builds of the TTSH. There surely is a tidy markup in all of them, but if you can produce something that makes the whole synth community go aflutter, surely it is sensible you should profit from it.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:51 am

Eh, I slept on it and I think I'm gonna cancel my preorder from MF. For $4,000 in my position not making money from music, I think I'd rather snag a Moog Matriarch and Polyend Tracker with money to spare for something like a guitar pedal or two.

I wish I could justify it but I'm not going to fool myself, I'm probably never going to be remotely good enough to justify owning one of these. Lastly, I'm of the belief Korg will be making these for a while should I ever feel the need to get one. No evidence for the latter but that's what I feel.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by blw » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:57 am

You should buy it and throw it on Ebay. You'd probably net $2000.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:59 am

blw wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:57 am
You should buy it and throw it on Ebay. You'd probably net $2000.
You think so? I really think they'll be producing more of them which would drive that resale down even if it was brand new... You have given me something to consider though.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by blw » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:14 am

Divinital_ wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:59 am
You think so? I really think they'll be producing more of them which would drive that resale down even if it was brand new... You have given me something to consider though.
I'd do it quickly for sure, but someone already sold one for $6500 or something. I'm a little surprised no one has PM'ed you asking to buy your place in line already.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:18 am

blw wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:14 am
Divinital_ wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:59 am
You think so? I really think they'll be producing more of them which would drive that resale down even if it was brand new... You have given me something to consider though.
I'd do it quickly for sure, but someone already sold one for $6500 or something. I'm a little surprised no one has PM'ed you asking to buy your place in line already.
Well I got someone else's place in line but I never really inquired as to where my place was, maybe I will today. I got it from Musician's Friend, the 2600 page appeared in search for about 15 minutes after someone canceled and I quickly decided to snatch it up having messaged MF multiple times weekly for a while asking if there were any cancellations.

They did not honor any sort of waiting list/line, the page would appear and disappear depending on cancellations. Once it disappeared and you asked about it, they'd basically say the 2600 doesn't exist, so I have no idea how they're handling the allocation. Maybe I'm selling myself short, maybe not. I've used the same guitar for nearly 10 years and it's close to mint minus a huge chip I smashed out of it during an audition. If I got 20 years out of the 2600, it'd inevitably be worth it even for a novice.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by blw » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:27 am

If that is there policy, at least post a note here with an exact time when you cancel the order to give someone here a fighting chance to pick one up! :party:

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:29 am

blw wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:27 am
If that is there policy, at least post a note here with an exact time when you cancel the order to give someone here a fighting chance to pick one up! :party:
Will do, not sure how quickly it'd appear afterwards. I do wonder how they're handling it though after zZounds basically got 0 units. This whole thing is a bit haphazard. Like I said, got a bit to think about with that potential profit. I'm not too greedy, even a few hundred extra is fine as long as I don't lose anything with the 10% eBay fee.

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by KSS » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:44 pm

blw wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:57 am
tobb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:45 am
KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 pm
estin wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!
Haterz gonna hate.
Its not about hating,its about been screwed and paying at least $2k too much..
There have been many similar priced products, including "pro" DIY builds of the TTSH. There surely is a tidy markup in all of them, but if you can produce something that makes the whole synth community go aflutter, surely it is sensible you should profit from it.
For those who feel the price is too high, i suggest you build a few of something like this for musicians, anything in quantity really. But not just DIY for yourself, something for pay and expected to work like any other commercially purchased thing. Why do you think so many panel and pcb projects have such short lives? Could it be that the person who thought it was going to be easy and that they'd make big profits instead find out it's a whole lot more work and focus with meager returns -and endless support!- than they bargained for?

Then you may or will? understand not only how much more than cost of parts factors into a price, but also the amount of real work involved in this project. That "tidy" profit is not as much as you think. That's why Patrick who posted the inner photos, and who has built over 60 TTSHs and serviced 20 more, is comfortable saying the Korg price is fair. He is not guessing about the time and real costs, he has experienced them.

And not all the costs are monetary. Musicians can be very flakey buyers. Of course this is true for people besides musicians, but can anyone here really claim otherwise? That musicians are known for being all too often short of cash, mercuric in personality -goes with being creative, and ephemeral in their attraction to any given product. This of course does not apply to all musicians, but enough to make the endless jokes along these lines memorable and relatable.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Divinital_ » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:51 pm

UPDATE : Musician's Friend does not seem to have access to a chronological list in which orders were placed order canceled. Perhaps they never had any sort of list in the first place, I'm guessing it's handle via automation? Regardless, I have no way of knowing "where" I am in line or where anyone might be if I canceled.

For now, I haven't canceled though. I don't think this item will depreciate if it's truly limited, and 2001 is one of my favorite movies ever, so even sitting in front of what was used to score it will be priceless.

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by jdkJake » Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:11 pm

For those of you who ordered from Sweetwater, this was posted at the top of their latest email flyer:

COVID-19 Update: You can count on us. Sweetwater continues to accept all online orders, but shipping will be delayed due to Indiana's mandatory “stay-at-home” guidelines. We hope to begin normal shipping on April 7. Between March 24 and April 6, we will have reduced phone sales support. Please email your Sweetwater Sales Engineer with questions, concerns, or required assistance with your Sweetwater order. Also, if you have any tech support issues, our phone services will be limited but you are encouraged to contact us and we will assist you as quickly as possible.

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Re: Inside the Korg ARP 2600

Post by tobb » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:15 am

dashwood wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 8:16 am
tobb wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:45 am
KSS wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:08 pm
estin wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
LOL nothing like nearly $4k for a big ol box of nada!
Haterz gonna hate.
Its not about hating,its about been screwed and paying at least $2k too much..
The guy that did the teardown thinks it's priced about right.

One of his comments below the article:

" If you first consider the following points:
material costs
Labor costs
Prototyping costs / development
Profit
Taxes
transport
Risk premium
Aftersales / support / manuals / firmware etc.

Then you take into account the two hand-made housings in terms of wages and materials, which you can't get really cheap even on CNC wood milling machines, not even in Asia.
The pcbs cost almost nothing, nor do the SMT components. (Approx. 100 € for everything)
It only gets “expensive” with the sockets and sliders.
The panel does not cost the world either (20-50 €).
What takes several hours is putting it together.
The roadcase probably costs another 100 € (presumably through external)
All in all, that fits with € 4,000.
We also want them to benefit and are willing to continue building more of them."
No,it is not,these are not boutique units,these are produced in quantity,those sockets/faders are ordered in high quantity and so are also very cheap,idem for the knobs,custom molding knobs these days cost peanuts (why do you think you can have now all colors of fake Davies knobs...,the resale prices are unrealistic VS the real cost)

Everything is mega cheap on this synth including the ridiculous PSU.. and yes those pieces of wood housing cost peanuts,you forget its made in high quantity,not a 20 piece boutique batch.

The tolexing likely takes a bit xtra time due to delicate handling,but its not a single piece they do,its chain-work so goes fast,everything is pre-cut

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Re: Korg Arp 2600 Arrival Date

Post by Xmit » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:47 am

is there not a danger here in confusing what something is 'worth' based on the costs of the components, the costs in manufacturing & assembling it versus what it 'will sell for' on the commercial market ?

What Korg have done here is produced a brand new minty fresh version of a synthesizer fetching £6k - £11k on the used market depending upon condition. The 2600s 'worth' is more a factor of it's hertitage, it's mystique, its overal kudos as a classic legendary synthesizer. And of course it sounds fantastic

I would say the KARP version stacks up very well financially given the overall market. The overall package with the keyboard & cases makes it certainly worth the £3400 I've paid.

If I ever get it that is :wink:
Last edited by Xmit on Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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