Behringer 2600

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ScremercS
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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by ScremercS » Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:02 pm

lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am
The "complete instrument" argument has always felt like a brain fart to me. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean, most of the time. Almost all instruments feel like instruments to me.
This is why 2600 give people GAS :hihi:

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by lisa » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:24 pm

anselmi wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:49 pm
it´s a feeling that the complete set behaves as one piece instead of several, uncorrelated parts
not just because of electrical compatibility but a whole design
I feel that way about at least 98% of all synths I've ever used. I even feel that way about my eurorack setups. So, to me, it seems like a very low bar to clear.

In any case, I'll check out a 2600 to see what the fuzz is all about. :goo:
An exclusive, all Alesis Ion track! The best synth ever made. :guinness:


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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Voltcontrol » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:29 pm

lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:24 pm
anselmi wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:49 pm
it´s a feeling that the complete set behaves as one piece instead of several, uncorrelated parts
not just because of electrical compatibility but a whole design
I feel that way about at least 98% of all synths I've ever used. I even feel that way about my eurorack setups. So, to me, it seems like a very low bar to clear.

In any case, I'll check out a 2600 to see what the fuzz is all about.
I don’t see it kicking the Ion off it’s throne for you in my crystal ball. :lol:
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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Sat Oct 24, 2020 2:39 pm

lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am
lisa wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 3:58 am
I know that I can patch my own complex oscillator for instance but I usually don't; on the other hand, I do use my normalled complex oscillators all the time. So, apparently normalling makes a great difference to me.
The "complete instrument" argument has always felt like a brain fart to me. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean, most of the time. Almost all instruments feel like instruments to me.
Your first quote answers the question raised in the second. Same thing. But 'normalling' as applied to a set rather than a single module.
Yeah. I should try one out. My problem with most of the classics is that I find them boring and overrated. Many of them really boring and overrated. When I look at a picture of the 2600 front panel I get the same notion, that there really isn't much there. For the time, sure, but not compared to what's available these days. Not compared to any of my eurorack setups. But I should try it, sometimes I click with tools in unexpected ways.
If you approach it as a comparison to a eurorack, you'll likely have the same experience you've had before with other vintage synths. At least before you start patching it up. And I'd suggest not patching it up until you've fully explored the native normalled patch.

Better to approach it the way an organist might approach a piano. The organ can do far more things, but the piano still has some tricks the organ can't do. The organist wouldn't be looking for all the stops. Or even the multiple keybeds. They're not there. But in their place is a well-configured musical instrument which is not trying to be an organ.

In this same vein the 2600 has a limited number of 'modules', but they're really well suited for each other. Instead of the few sweet spots you find in most other vintage synths, there's a whole lot of sweet *ranges*. Giant sweet 'spots' all through the synth.

And unlike a minimoog, which I agree, *is* pretty limited in the ways you've described, once you hit the wall with the 2600s' native normal patch, you've got the patching to explore. It's still not going to be a eurorack 'organ', but if you can appreciate what it does do so well, you can spend a great deal of time before you come to the ends of its capabilities. Like a fine piano.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Blairio » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 am

doombient.music wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:10 pm
lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am
[...] The "complete instrument" argument has always felt like a brain fart to me. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean, most of the time. Almost all instruments feel like instruments to me. [...]
Being completely ignorant, I suppose it means "plug it in and play it, and don't bother to buy a plethora of modules first before you start feeling reasonably complete and ready to go".

I might be wrong, of course.

Stephen
Sometimes 'the complete (this or that)' simply means that something had no obvious areas of weakness. The 2600 may indeed be a case in point, with every part of it delivering a strong performance.

I have never used a 2600. It sounds great (as does my Behringer Odyssey), however I am currently in retreat from modular synthesis (for a while at least) so I will pass. Did you know you can weave amazing garments out of old patch cables?

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by doombient.music » Sun Oct 25, 2020 5:05 am

Blairio wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:29 am
doombient.music wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:10 pm
lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am
[...] The "complete instrument" argument has always felt like a brain fart to me. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean, most of the time. Almost all instruments feel like instruments to me. [...]
Being completely ignorant, I suppose it means "plug it in and play it, and don't bother to buy a plethora of modules first before you start feeling reasonably complete and ready to go".

I might be wrong, of course.

Stephen
Sometimes 'the complete (this or that)' simply means that something had no obvious areas of weakness. The 2600 may indeed be a case in point, with every part of it delivering a strong performance. [...]
I beg to differ -- there are so many conceptual weaknesses to the 2600 I still am amazed I've been using one for almost 25 years (which goes to show how much I appreciate its sound over its shortcomings, I guess).

Other than that, it was (and still is) all I can afford in terms of modular synthesisers.

Stephen

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by dadRabbit » Sun Oct 25, 2020 8:28 am

So happy these are only going for $600, might pick up two.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Flounderguts » Sun Oct 25, 2020 9:42 pm

Or 6 of them for a Poly 15600!
----------------------

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by winn3r » Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:44 pm


$42,000 or $3,600 :hmm:

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:14 am

winn3r wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:44 pm
$42,000 or $3,600 :hmm:
Can say the same about *any* product with both high-end and low cost mfrs. Even toilet paper has a wide range of price.
The 11:1 range here is mirrored in that industry too. 3 high end rolls over 7 dollars vs. 4 rolls at the Dollar store .

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by anselmi » Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:12 pm

KSS wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:14 am
winn3r wrote:
Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:44 pm
$42,000 or $3,600 :hmm:
Even toilet paper has a wide range of price.
each ass is a different story...same applies to ears :metasonix:

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by winn3r » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:57 pm

The difference between high end rolls and dollar store rolls is huge!! :hihi: Is the CMS 11x better than Barp? We'll see . . .

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by lusoman » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:01 pm

If you keep Barping, you'll be needing some quality TP fer sure...
Call me old-fashioned, but I like a dump to be as memorable as it devastating.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by thetwlo » Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:40 pm

lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am
The "complete instrument" argument has always felt like a brain fart to me. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean, most of the time. Almost all instruments feel like instruments to me.
it's "complete" as in, it's not modular, only patchable.
It's a full instrument without any additional cables or modules.
As for sound, depends on which one you have, they all sound different after aging.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by anselmi » Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:43 pm


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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Dave Peck » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:47 pm

Lot of problems with that 'demo', IMO. But it does reveal something - do you notice how the Behringer filter cutoff doesn't sweep all the way up to the top of the audio range? It seems to quit at a much lower top frequency than either the original Arp or the Korg. Compare at 16:40, 18:30, and 19:40. That's not ok.
Last edited by Dave Peck on Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by doombient.music » Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:22 pm

anselmi wrote:
Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:43 pm
Who's that fellow Jeff Lebowski is hanging out with?

Stephen

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by dooj88 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:46 am

thetwlo wrote:
Mon Oct 26, 2020 10:40 pm
lisa wrote:
Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:36 am
The "complete instrument" argument has always felt like a brain fart to me. I don't even know what it is supposed to mean, most of the time. Almost all instruments feel like instruments to me.
it's "complete" as in, it's not modular, only patchable.
It's a full instrument without any additional cables or modules.
As for sound, depends on which one you have, they all sound different after aging.
i prefer mine aged at least 25 years in a windowless laminate wood paneled basement with slightly above average humidity. it provides that subtle yet key 'vintage analog uncertainty' character that all sophisticated palates enjoy.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Dave Peck » Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:05 pm

dooj88 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:46 am

i prefer mine aged at least 25 years in a windowless laminate wood paneled basement with slightly above average humidity. it provides that subtle yet key 'vintage analog uncertainty' character that all sophisticated palates enjoy.
Yes, it's a naive domestic effort but I find that I'm amused by its presumption. Haughty, yet indifferent. Insouciant, yet intriguingly obtuse. :cloud:

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by dooj88 » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:37 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:05 pm
dooj88 wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:46 am

i prefer mine aged at least 25 years in a windowless laminate wood paneled basement with slightly above average humidity. it provides that subtle yet key 'vintage analog uncertainty' character that all sophisticated palates enjoy.
Yes, it's a naive domestic effort but I find that I'm amused by its presumption. Haughty, yet indifferent. Insouciant, yet intriguingly obtuse. :cloud:
i was just being sassy. i'd think it a reasonable assumption that components will degrade over time and impact the signal flow in unexpected ways. i just don't have the scratch to explore the world of collectable vintage synthesizers.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Dave Peck » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 pm

Yeah me too. The only vintage synths I have are the ones that I bought a long time ago before they were vintage. They're great but a hassle to keep running properly and I am not too interested in buying already-old synths.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by thetwlo » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:50 pm

Dave Peck wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 pm
Yeah me too. The only vintage synths I have are the ones that I bought a long time ago before they were vintage. They're great but a hassle to keep running properly and I am not too interested in buying already-old synths.
yes, they used various circuits--of course. But I bet they didn't use the same caps either, and other parts. Just guessing different caps may have aged differently.
I think that's the charm with the old stuff the all aged a bit differently. But yeah, not buying vintage stuff now.
My 2600 was $900 in '97, and I love it, I'm sure it's totally out of spec now, they all are, it's 40+ years old.
Not saying it sounds "better" just different. That might be charm, or a serious irritation depending on how you use it.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by Blairio » Thu Oct 29, 2020 12:35 am

Dave Peck wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:21 pm
Yeah me too. The only vintage synths I have are the ones that I bought a long time ago before they were vintage. They're great but a hassle to keep running properly and I am not too interested in buying already-old synths.
In the car and motorcycle world terms like 'classic', 'antique ' and 'vintage' have particular meanings.

Classic = over 20 years old
Antique = over 45 years old
Vintage = built between 1919 and 1930

Maybe its time to adapt a similar scale for synths. Perhaps:

Vintage = anything made before 1980
Classic = anything older than 25 years

That way, the term 'vintage ' no longer confers status on what could simply be any crap old synth or keyboard - it simply tells you what era it was from.

On that basis my Korg MS10 is a 'vintage' synth, and my Emu Proteus 1 with Protologic board a 'classic' rompler.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:12 am

thetwlo wrote:
Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:50 pm
My 2600 was $900 in '97, and I love it, I'm sure it's totally out of spec now, they all are, it's 40+ years old.
That's simply not true. Many or even most are still *easily* within spec. If you'rs is not, that's on you and the solution is only a service call away. There's almost nothing that prevents an old 2600 from being brought into spec.

Even many of the old supposed 'truths' are rather uninformed, yet widely believed. That one can't repair encapsulated submodules is totally false, yet often heard.
Not saying it sounds "better" just different. That might be charm, or a serious irritation depending on how you use it.
I completely agree with this^ statement.
But NOT with the often mis-correlated statement too man times seen used 'around' it. Like here in this thread. That "they all sounded different from the start anyways", and by now with 'aging' those differences will only increase. Musicians -and all humans really- hate to see their sacred cows murdered. But this trope is just that, a trope. Anyone who worked in the synth business when these were new, knows that they all sounded FAR more alike than different. To say otherwise is to subscribe to 'romantic' BS.
Last edited by KSS on Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Behringer 2600

Post by KSS » Thu Oct 29, 2020 11:24 am

To anyone watching the video posted above, ARP never made a 3602 KBD. They did make a 3604, and the ones in the video are 3620. He even says "3602" while the camera is pointed at the label which clearly reads "3620." <--Maybe someone can let him know and he can add some useful cartoons to correct the mis-statements in the current version?

And he *really* needs to get his Korg 2600FS calibrated. Along with desperately needing new key bushings for his '74 ARP.

I *was* really looking forward to the video. Now that I've seen it, I'd say it's worth watching for some useful information about the B2600, but be *very* careful what conclusions you draw from it about the differences or similarities fo these three synths. <--The video maker says so too, but he's emphasizing the video's lack of sonic integrity , and I'm saying there's more to it than that.

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