Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

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Man-In-A-Suitcase

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:29 am

.
Last edited by Man-In-A-Suitcase on Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Muzone » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:14 am

brokensolderingiron wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:24 pm
....... GS have made it clear anyone discussing Bheringer lawsuit gets banned. Now thats something to debate!
Only the same as MW making it clear that anyone discussing politics may be banned......

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by strettara » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:32 am

Could we at least agree how to spell Behringer? That might be a start.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by LunaticSound » Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:00 am

galanter2 wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:11 am
LunaticSound wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 6:49 pm
...If everybody always wants the cheapest, there will be nothing but shit one day. ...
Dr. Sketch-n-Etch wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:21 pm
galanter2 wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:41 pm
The laws of thermodynamics say the same thing, but for different reasons.
...
2 -- All systems ultimately move towards equilibrium (where all useful work has been exhausted) ...
OK, then let's put it that way: We are accelerating the heat death of the universe. Behringer fans, that is. :lol:

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:18 am

brokensolderingiron wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:24 pm
However i do note that GS have made it clear anyone discussing Bheringer lawsuit gets banned. Now thats something to debate!
Deleted my GS account back then when Uri took control over the site. If he used money or legal force I didn't care. Site where already ruined by its commercial business model anyway.
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Man-In-A-Suitcase

Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Man-In-A-Suitcase » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:31 am

.
Last edited by Man-In-A-Suitcase on Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:42 am

Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:31 am
StillNotWorking wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:18 am
brokensolderingiron wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:24 pm
However i do note that GS have made it clear anyone discussing Bheringer lawsuit gets banned. Now thats something to debate!
Deleted my GS account back then when Uri took control over the site.
Uri? Is Uri Geller now running GS. Oh! you mean Uli. :doh:
Thanks! :guinness:
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Flounderguts » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:05 pm

Poor Uri Bheringer is getting all this bad press from Uli Behringer.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by StillNotWorking » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:26 pm

Flounderguts wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:05 pm
Poor Uri Bheringer is getting all this bad press from Uli Behringer.
Come on guys! It's the same person. My internet search engine can prove it. :hihi:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Uri+Bheringer&t=ffcm&ia=web
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by onthebandwagon » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:21 pm

I thought a uli was a urinary tract infection.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Estes » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:41 pm

strettara wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:41 am
Estes wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:53 pm
I think it might have to do with some personal failure or something similar and now the bad guy I blame for all this is Behringer.
Yes! It's because they buy all these expensive synths, modulars etc only to discover they are sh*t at music. So they must focus on someone or some company to take it out on for that very reason. The morale of the story is don't go around blaming others for your own personal failure.
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
Anger and hate often have to do with failure in some ways.
From the psychological point of view you are either the person who attaches good thing to yourself or to a circumstance (outside) and for bad things its the same pattern, either you make yourself responsable or someone else. Making music often comes with the thirst of recognition and if you fail at this you can start blame others, blame yourself. If things were going well you would probably either say I was lucky or it was because of my personal effort. The worst combination is when all the good stuff that happens to you is luck and bad things the others. This is how we work most of the time and unfortunately its very hard to change this attitude unless you are used to analyse and reflect your behaviour.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by brokensolderingiron » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:01 pm

Muzone wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:14 am
Only the same as MW making it clear that anyone discussing politics may be banned......
Obviously not the same thing, dont cook apples with pears and claim it's an omelet! That suing episode clearly fit under business ethics/economics.Decision to ban was made long time afterwards , GS mods/owner could have stopped the debacle at start , but no, so fault is on them.
StillNotWorking wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:18 am
Deleted my GS account back then when Uri took control over the site. If he used money or legal force I didn't care.
Site where already ruined by its commercial business model anyway.
Yep ,the marketing model is quite obvious at GS and some of their moderators have a A-hole mentality.
Last edited by brokensolderingiron on Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:26 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by brokensolderingiron » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:10 pm

doublet.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by onthebandwagon » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:35 pm

Buying a forum seems like a wanna be Bezosian move, re: the Washington Post.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Monotremata » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 pm

Yawn.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by strettara » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 am

Estes wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:41 pm
strettara wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:39 pm
Man-In-A-Suitcase wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:41 am
Estes wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:53 pm
I think it might have to do with some personal failure or something similar and now the bad guy I blame for all this is Behringer.
Yes! It's because they buy all these expensive synths, modulars etc only to discover they are sh*t at music. So they must focus on someone or some company to take it out on for that very reason. The morale of the story is don't go around blaming others for your own personal failure.
I hope you’re being sarcastic.
Anger and hate often have to do with failure in some ways.
Anger and hate? Well maybe. It just seems like a shitty thing to say. After all the vast majority of people on this forum are hobbyists. To say they're shit at music and that's why they're criticising Behringer is a pretty awful attitude.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by twistedneck » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:46 am

If it was not Behringer it would be someone else from someplace else

they still would be making most real lovers of synths pissed off for essentially following the efficiency curve of humanity Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis Im not a Marxist i am approaching it from Hegel's original perspective

in a few business cycles Behringer will wear out their model and the market will tire of 'Cheap Chinese Crap' or equivalent and then we will have a functioning market where all levels can be served at the correct market value we just gotta get through this shit part

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Muzone » Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:17 am

brokensolderingiron wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:01 pm
........ dont cook apples with pears and claim it's an omelet!
https://kitchenaid.com.au/blogs/kitchen ... rta-greber

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by p_shoulder » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:11 am

Estes wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:41 pm
Anger and hate often have to do with failure in some ways.
From the psychological point of view you are either the person who attaches good thing to yourself or to a circumstance (outside) and for bad things its the same pattern, either you make yourself responsable or someone else. Making music often comes with the thirst of recognition and if you fail at this you can start blame others, blame yourself.
The number of people who give a shit about the "thirst of recognition" in the music industry here, frankly, seems quite small. Musical taste around here in fact seems to drift way more towards the avant-garde instead of the Top 100 singles. Possibly there are more fans of, say, Olivier Messiaen here than there are of, say, Drake.

This is a modular synth forum, which means things are techie by nature; in fact, particularly in the DIY forum, some people may not even be huge musicians even at a hobby level, and are more in it for electronics geek-ery. It is indeed possible that many of us here can afford the relatively expensive modular synths due to having a successful career in industries where, unlike much of music these days, you can actually make money.

So I'm not sure where you are going here, it seems like a cheap shot at a crowd that you perceive exists here but really doesn't. I can't speak for anyone else, at any rate, but it's less "anger and hate" and where I spend my money. Many are overjoyed at Behringer's cheap clones. Great. I chose not to spend my money there, personally. Beyond their business practice, I'm a little bored with the cheap clones personally. It's great for kicking the overpriced vintage market in the nads, I guess, but it's not terribly innovative.

Now, if you want "anger and hate", check out Behringer's Glassdoor reviews. A "biased selection" I know, but if Uli's management style is driving talent out of the companies he has acquired, that would be truly sad.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by martimous » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:15 am

If we're going to hate on over-priced vintage, I would add a particular frowny face at folks that buy up vintage gear, fix it up and decide their efforts are worth another $5k on the price of the thing. Then EVERYONE decides theirs is worth that much, and away we go up the price spiral....

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 pm

martimous wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:15 am
If we're going to hate on over-priced vintage, I would add a particular frowny face at folks that buy up vintage gear, fix it up and decide their efforts are worth another $5k on the price of the thing. Then EVERYONE decides theirs is worth that much, and away we go up the price spiral....
And yet this is the market that a few anti Behringer people are desperately trying to protect.

Notice I said a few.

At the end of the day, I do see both sides. However, I’m much more a musician than a programmer and I’m happy to be able to get my hands on tools that do what they say they do, for a lower price. Yes I have a lot of vintage synths, a eurorack System etc. And I do currently only have the TD3, and a mic preamp from ages ago, so I’m hardly a fanboy. I do however think having a whinge from several massive corporations battling over patent rights is hilarious at best, and sad at the very worst. If Behringer go after smaller manufacturers, then yes, I will have an issue, but that currently hasn’t happened.

Says me.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:16 pm

3hands wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 pm
martimous wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:15 am
If we're going to hate on over-priced vintage, I would add a particular frowny face at folks that buy up vintage gear, fix it up and decide their efforts are worth another $5k on the price of the thing. Then EVERYONE decides theirs is worth that much, and away we go up the price spiral....
And yet this is the market that a few anti Behringer people are desperately trying to protect.

Notice I said a few.

At the end of the day, I do see both sides. However, I’m much more a musician than a programmer and I’m happy to be able to get my hands on tools that do what they say they do, for a lower price. Yes I have a lot of vintage synths, a eurorack System etc. And I do currently only have the TD3, and a mic preamp from ages ago, so I’m hardly a fanboy. I do however think having a whinge from several massive corporations battling over patent rights is hilarious at best, and sad at the very worst. If Behringer go after smaller manufacturers, then yes, I will have an issue, but that currently hasn’t happened.

Says me.
What folks don't like to mention is that the only company in eurorack to be "destroyed" by other companies was Mutable Instruments and guess who killed them? Oh yeah, it was the tons of tiny parasitical mom and pop companies building mutable clones that I'm sure are in the racks of a bunch of the people posting in this thread. And then there was the one company who's business plan was to undercut the other cloners out of existence! Honestly I'd be fine if Behringer came along and took these tools out.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by 3hands » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:42 pm

coolshirtdotjpg wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:16 pm
3hands wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:21 pm
martimous wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:15 am
If we're going to hate on over-priced vintage, I would add a particular frowny face at folks that buy up vintage gear, fix it up and decide their efforts are worth another $5k on the price of the thing. Then EVERYONE decides theirs is worth that much, and away we go up the price spiral....
And yet this is the market that a few anti Behringer people are desperately trying to protect.

Notice I said a few.

At the end of the day, I do see both sides. However, I’m much more a musician than a programmer and I’m happy to be able to get my hands on tools that do what they say they do, for a lower price. Yes I have a lot of vintage synths, a eurorack System etc. And I do currently only have the TD3, and a mic preamp from ages ago, so I’m hardly a fanboy. I do however think having a whinge from several massive corporations battling over patent rights is hilarious at best, and sad at the very worst. If Behringer go after smaller manufacturers, then yes, I will have an issue, but that currently hasn’t happened.

Says me.
What folks don't like to mention is that the only company in eurorack to be "destroyed" by other companies was Mutable Instruments and guess who killed them? Oh yeah, it was the tons of tiny parasitical mom and pop companies building mutable clones that I'm sure are in the racks of a bunch of the people posting in this thread. And then there was the one company who's business plan was to undercut the other cloners out of existence! Honestly I'd be fine if Behringer came along and took these tools out.

Well yeah, they’re not going to mention that, as that doesn't fit the rest of their argument.

The companies Behringer are going after are often times multi billion dollar corporations, not a small company like MI. And as you also mentioned, it would be very Interesting to see how many of the anti Behringer group had a part to play in the demise of Mutable.
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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by Zymos » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:54 pm

No one is going to mention that because it never happened. Seems like the owner is taking a break for personal reasons- MI was not “destroyed”.

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Re: Behringer: practices, ethics, morals and legitimacy.

Post by martimous » Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:17 pm

3hands wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:42 pm
<snip>.... to see how many of the anti Behringer group had a part to play in the demise of Mutable.
Wait, wut!? I had a LOT of Mutable modules on my shopping list. I saw "Braids" is out of stock everywhere, but I didn't know the whole thing is going down. Arrrgh!!!!

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