Any Motu 828es users here?

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HIMA
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Any Motu 828es users here?

Post by HIMA » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:05 am

Hi All, I'm a bit lost with a few aspects of how to use the browser based routing and Live. Previously I used a mixing desk with Firewire so I'm a bit new to AIs. Some of these questions might be dumb...

I can get audio from my 828es into live. No issue. But I have to mute the channels in the browser (or Live) else I'm hearing both inputs offset by a few ms. Is that normal?

Next issue, I'd like to leverage the DSP options presented in the browser. But, If I use, for example the compressor, the signal entering Live is pre the compressor. Anyway to address this?

Any insight you can share with me on how to address this would be great!

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Post by hamildad » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:54 am

I dont find the MOTU software easy to use at all.

I also didn't enjoy the Focusrite mixing software but it was simpler so less to go wrong.

you could create a MIX of the input with compressor and then route that mix to Live channel input, rather than the hardware input?

I tried to create a record mix in the MOTU software and ended up more confused that when I started, so good luck.
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Re: Any Motu 828es users here?

Post by nolongerhuman » Wed Sep 18, 2019 10:16 am

HIMA wrote:Hi All, I'm a bit lost with a few aspects of how to use the browser based routing and Live. Previously I used a mixing desk with Firewire so I'm a bit new to AIs. Some of these questions might be dumb...

I can get audio from my 828es into live. No issue. But I have to mute the channels in the browser (or Live) else I'm hearing both inputs offset by a few ms. Is that normal?

Next issue, I'd like to leverage the DSP options presented in the browser. But, If I use, for example the compressor, the signal entering Live is pre the compressor. Anyway to address this?

Any insight you can share with me on how to address this would be great!
I have the 828es here after having switched from a Focusrite interface last year.

I can address the first issue, yes, it's normal. the MOTU web interface is basically the mixer for the soundcard, and runs at essentially zero latency. Ableton has it's own inbuilt mixer and it has it's own latency based on plug ins and settings used. So, for live monitoring or recording you can mute the Ableton mixer, and treat the MOTU mixer like you would a hardware mixer. I personally record almost exclusively with Ableton Live, so I have the MOTU mixer muted and route my channels with Ableton.

It's handy to have the MOTU mixer though, for tracking say...vocals. You can hear and route to headphones a zero latency version of what's being sung, without having to worry about Ableton struggling to live record and offset latency, etc.

The second issue I can't help with as I don't use the DSP effects at the moment, but I imagine it's largely to do with the routing in the MOTU browser. There is a quick and dirty demo on youtube.

Hope that helps!

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Post by HIMA » Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:18 am

I asked the question to Motu and got this as an answer. I'll try it out when I get home today.
It is possible to get post-effect signal from the 828es' virtual mixer and record it into Ableton. There are a couple of ways to do this:

1) You can use the Post-FX channels, which are available in the top right-hand corner of the Routing Grid. If you route these channels to the To Computer channels, you will be able to record the post-effects, pre-fader signal into Ableton.

2) The 828es' mixer was designed more as a summing mixer, and does not have individual channel direct outs that provide post-effects and post-fader signal. However, if you'd like that, you can utilize the Aux and Group channels in the mixer - make all of the Aux channels mono, then assign each channel to its own individual Aux. In the Routing Grid, you can send each Aux output to a To Computer channel, which would be available for recording in Ableton.
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Post by ckwjr » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:00 am

that's helpful! I have the 828 es and had never paid any attention to the Post-FX channels in the browser interface.

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Post by MrBiggs » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:50 am

It's a month-old thread I know, but I'm curious about something here. I have an 828mk3, so running the older Cuemix mixing interface. And I don't have the 828 here with me so can't test to make sure. But I'm pretty sure on the mk3/Cuemix the EQ and compressor/leveler is available on any channel, whether it be input, mix or output. So if I plug a guitar into the Mic1 input and add some EQ to it from Cuemix, when I open an Ableton channel and set up Mic1 as my source, the signal I'm getting is EQ'd.
Again, pretty sure.

But I'm understanding that this isn't the case with the newer models?

EDIT: Okay just went over and tried this out and yes, on the 828mk3, the EQ and compressor/leveler can be routed into Ableton over the input channels without using any of the mix buses. I'd be disappointed if this is not the case with the 828es.
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Post by Panason » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:55 am

MrBiggs wrote: EDIT: Okay just went over and tried this out and yes, on the 828mk3, the EQ and compressor/leveler can be routed into Ableton over the input channels without using any of the mix buses.
Can you explain how to set this up? CueMix is a bit of a donkey.

I monitor through the DAW and in this case it seems to me that the MOTU's DSP processing doesn't apply.

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Post by MrBiggs » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:31 pm

Panason wrote: Can you explain how to set this up? CueMix is a bit of a donkey.
Your comment made me laugh. Donkey is a perfect way to describe it.

I don't think I have anything special set up in my Cuemix routing -- in Ableton I just take the audio from the External In 1, which in this case is the Mic/Line 1 on the 828. What's going into that channel in Ableton is the Cuemix feed postFX. I'll look again this afternoon and make sure that I didn't change any routing settings at some point since 2012 when I got the thing.

Looking at p76 of the manual for the 828mk3, it states:
"The Inputs tab gives you access to settings for individual 828mk3 inputs (or input pairs), such as phase, trim, EQ and dynamics processing. Each input also includes a send to the 828mk3’s global reverb processor. These settings are applied to the signal before it goes anywhere else (to a mix bus or the computer)."

So from this it seems like that's the expected behavior. As I said, I don't think I did anything weird to the settings or routings.

Regarding the new Pro Audio Control, since I wrote the above post, I got hold of an Ultralite mk4 and have it running on my work computer here just to see what the routing and Pro Audio Control looks like. And I can confirm that it works differently.
What you guys said above from MOTU is correct -- in the routing matrix, you have to choose the *post FX* input to get this to work. So the default or normal routing would be mic/line input 1 routed "to computer 1" but you want to change it to the mic/line input postFX 1, which is further over on the left. And it works.
While this matrix thing is more complicated than Cuemix, and I likely won't use a lot of its routing possibilities, it's pretty incredible and intimidating. It completely detaches hardware inputs from software.
For example, on the mk3 and previous MOTU devices using Cuemix, if you have something plugged into Mic1, it would always be hardwired and available as Input 1 in your software. Analog Line input 1 is always "input 3" (which was confusing until Live 10 allowed channel naming).

Well with this, it can be available as any of 18 "to computer" inputs. It doesn't care anymore whether that comes from XLR, S/PDIF, or analog 1/4". I look forward to spending some more time with it to figure it all out. It seems like it could cause havoc with naming the channels in Ableton. I like to have my channels named Eurorack, guitar, Minologue, turntable and so on. And I guess as long as I make a preset in the MOTU mixer and leave it alone that will still work. But since now any input can go to any input anywhere, I'll have to be careful with that.
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