Squarp Pyramid vs. Pioneer Squid

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tioJim
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Post by tioJim » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:15 pm

Here's an important question:

Does the Squid record incoming MIDI?

I can't see any reference to it in the manual.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:36 pm

tioJim wrote:Here's an important question:

Does the Squid record incoming MIDI?

I can't see any reference to it in the manual.
Note data, yes. No CCs, PC, etc

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Post by The Grump » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:22 am

DiscoDevil wrote:
tioJim wrote:Here's an important question:

Does the Squid record incoming MIDI?

I can't see any reference to it in the manual.
Note data, yes. No CCs, PC, etc
Well then fuck that thing! :doh:

It might as well be a Tempest. I mean... no CC data?? Wtf? No recording knob tweaks on other gear? Oh hell no.

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Post by tioJim » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:42 am

The Grump wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
tioJim wrote:Here's an important question:

Does the Squid record incoming MIDI?

I can't see any reference to it in the manual.
Note data, yes. No CCs, PC, etc
Well then fuck that thing! :doh:

It might as well be a Tempest. I mean... no CC data?? Wtf? No recording knob tweaks on other gear? Oh hell no.
You can set them from Squid, obvs, but um yes wtaf?

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:53 am

The Grump wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
tioJim wrote:Here's an important question:

Does the Squid record incoming MIDI?

I can't see any reference to it in the manual.
Note data, yes. No CCs, PC, etc
Well then fuck that thing! :doh:

It might as well be a Tempest. I mean... no CC data?? Wtf? No recording knob tweaks on other gear? Oh hell no.
You have to remember the Squid has just been born, and if miracles exist then software upgrades will help it.

But in its current format it is great to use and could possibly get better! "we hope"

It's worth trying out :tu:

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Post by dubonaire » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 pm

Sounds From The Shed wrote:
The Grump wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:
tioJim wrote:Here's an important question:

Does the Squid record incoming MIDI?

I can't see any reference to it in the manual.
Note data, yes. No CCs, PC, etc
Well then fuck that thing! :doh:

It might as well be a Tempest. I mean... no CC data?? Wtf? No recording knob tweaks on other gear? Oh hell no.
You have to remember the Squid has just been born, and if miracles exist then software upgrades will help it.

But in its current format it is great to use and could possibly get better! "we hope"

It's worth trying out :tu:
I think it would be risky to buy a Toraiz product with the expectation that features you really want might be added. When the SP-16 was released 3 years ago it was released with a published upgrade path, now no longer available, which included for example two effects per channel promised but so far not delivered. As time goes on it looks less and less likely Pioneer will release upgrades. I really hope they do.

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Post by The Grump » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:39 pm

Sounds From The Shed wrote: You have to remember the Squid has just been born, and if miracles exist then software upgrades will help it.

But in its current format it is great to use and could possibly get better! "we hope"

It's worth trying out :tu:
Ummm... no, I really don't. I'm not interested in gettinmg a product that doesn't do what I want already, with the ~hope~ of it maybe getting better, especially when I can't speak with the designers and programmers directly. That's why small companies like Squarp are where it's at. You KNOW they are listening to you requests, and will actually directly discuss your requests and suggestions with you to figure out either how they can be implemented, or a work-around to accommodate your wishes. They actually want and need your input.

Pioneer, on the other hand, doesn't give that much of a fuck. They make a pretty ad, suckers buy the product, hoping it will improve, less than half return the product, and Pioneer has already made a killing.

Fuck faith, and waiting to make music the way I want to, because I must bow to some corporate schedule. Nope. The Pyramid already does way more, it's no contest. Show's over, folks. Get a Pyramid, or wish you had.

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Post by dubonaire » Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:47 pm

The Grump wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote: You have to remember the Squid has just been born, and if miracles exist then software upgrades will help it.

But in its current format it is great to use and could possibly get better! "we hope"

It's worth trying out :tu:
Ummm... no, I really don't. I'm not interested in gettinmg a product that doesn't do what I want already, with the ~hope~ of it maybe getting better, especially when I can't speak with the designers and programmers directly. That's why small companies like Squarp are where it's at. You KNOW they are listening to you requests, and will actually directly discuss your requests and suggestions with you to figure out either how they can be implemented, or a work-around to accommodate your wishes. They actually want and need your input.

Pioneer, on the other hand, doesn't give that much of a fuck. They make a pretty ad, suckers buy the product, hoping it will improve, less than half return the product, and Pioneer has already made a killing.

Fuck faith, and waiting to make music the way I want to, because I must bow to some corporate schedule. Nope. The Pyramid already does way more, it's no contest. Show's over, folks. Get a Pyramid, or wish you had.
I agree with you, but I don't think I was a sucker buying the SP-16. I knew what I was buying, I love it, it's super easy to play and sounds absolutely amazing. I personally don't need it to do anything it doesn't do. Improvements would be nice, but are not deal killers for me. Better timing as a slave would be good but I don't mind it being master clock.

Pioneer DJ is not a company accustomed to freely upgrading, it's model has always been to release new products with more features. You only have to look at its product archive. Now it is trying to find a buyer, my guess is upgrade paths are being valued as new hardware to make the financial model look better.

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:56 am

I've spent most of the week working on a song on the Pyramid so took a break from it to see how the Squid would play with a VST via USB as well as CV out and a few midi outs, sequencing all at once. No lag, which is a good thing? :tu:

This is the end result. I guess it's the benefit of the Squid you can put together a quick fun jam, where-as the musical epic I'm preparing on the Pyramid has nearly made lose the will to live!!!!! :hihi:

[video][/video]

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Post by KaOsphere » Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:30 am

The Grump wrote: suckers buy the product
That superority complex...

I'm glad I can learn from the pros ! :hail:
Sig !

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Post by Sounds From The Shed » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:10 am

The Grump wrote:
Sounds From The Shed wrote: You have to remember the Squid has just been born, and if miracles exist then software upgrades will help it.

But in its current format it is great to use and could possibly get better! "we hope"

It's worth trying out :tu:
Ummm... no, I really don't. I'm not interested in gettinmg a product that doesn't do what I want already, with the ~hope~ of it maybe getting better, especially when I can't speak with the designers and programmers directly. That's why small companies like Squarp are where it's at. You KNOW they are listening to you requests, and will actually directly discuss your requests and suggestions with you to figure out either how they can be implemented, or a work-around to accommodate your wishes. They actually want and need your input.

Pioneer, on the other hand, doesn't give that much of a fuck. They make a pretty ad, suckers buy the product, hoping it will improve, less than half return the product, and Pioneer has already made a killing.

Fuck faith, and waiting to make music the way I want to, because I must bow to some corporate schedule. Nope. The Pyramid already does way more, it's no contest. Show's over, folks. Get a Pyramid, or wish you had.
But Mr Grump you miss the point, the Squarps great for what it does, it enables you to create what I would describe as "complete" songs. But to use, it feels purely functional and a lacks soul.

The Squid which is in its infancy(and let's not be deluded, it may stay an infant based on Pioneers previous software support), is so much more immediate, tactile and performance orientated.

I think you need more imagination to use the Squid to squeeze a bit more out of it, where as with the Squarp, just press a button and let it do the work.

If you are aware of British Politicians

Squarp = John Major (Grey, Dull, get's the job done)
Squid = Boris Johnstone (Wacky, Controversial, Far out, but fun)

Maybe someone can come up with the American version of that comparison

I suppose another comparison would be the Squarp is an SUV plenty of room for the kids, prams and shopping. The Squid is a two seater open top sports car with only enough boot space for your ipad :hihi:

I guess it depends on your style of music. I like to mix it up a bit so need both. But the Squid is by far the best to use regarding interface, speed of use and ability to change things on the fly (I hate that on the fly term but it applies here).

And I don't think anyone who owns one or the other would be a sucker, but would own a sequencer with differing strengths and weaknesses. :tu:

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Post by Panason » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:43 am

KaOsphere wrote:
The Grump wrote: suckers buy the product
That superority complex...

I'm glad I can learn from the pros ! :hail:
Probably meant that that's how the soul-less corporate entity known as Pioneer sees its customers.

I would have been a sucker if I had bought the SP-16 brand new at the full RRP. On hindsight, giving any money to Pioneer would be a sucker move as they released the DJS1000 soon after and dropped updating the SP-16 with much needed features not long after that... while pretending to care on their joke of a website. Now we have a criminally under-powered (in terms of firmware fuctionality) machine that deserved more.

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Post by The Grump » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:00 am

Panason wrote:
KaOsphere wrote:
The Grump wrote: suckers buy the product
That superority complex...

I'm glad I can learn from the pros ! :hail:
Probably meant that that's how the soul-less corporate entity known as Pioneer sees its customers.
While many times I have found you quite annoying, you actually nailed this one right on the head. "Suckers" does not exclusively apply to the Squid by any means, but Pioneer's approach in general.

As for folks making a comparison between the toy, touting the the Squid as some 2-seater, with no room for luggage, vs. the Pyramid as an SUV... and devoid of soul...I'd sooner put that down to user incompetence than shortcomings of the machine. I'd sooner call the Squid a 280-z with a flashy paintjob, and the Pyramid something resembling to a Tesla (with Insanity Mode, if you know how to get the unlock).

It's quite capable of recording and manipulating fun things VERY quickly, as well as getting ideas to some semblance of completion without too much effort; maybe you just have to get to know it a little better. Maybe you need to make better friends with the knobs and the X/Y pad. Maybe you need to put some fun stickers on it. Or maybe it's just the fact that your head probably works differently than mine. ~shrugs~

There *IS* a learning curve, but it's not hard. Compared to something like JJOS2XL on an MPC1k, a Command Station, an Rm1X/RS7000, a Notron, or ANY of Roland's digital architectures, the Pyramid is a fucking breeze. I don't know why y'all are crying or pretending there's much of a comparison.

The Squid is quaint.

The Pyramid is fucking badass.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:34 am

Give the SQUID 256 Pattern Sets per project like the SP-16 and it will be the greatest hardware sequencer ever created, IMO.

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Post by The Grump » Wed Jul 31, 2019 12:33 pm

DiscoDevil wrote:Give the SQUID 256 Pattern Sets per project like the SP-16 and it will be the greatest hardware sequencer ever created, IMO.
With your apparent lack of interest in recording incoming CC's, PC, etc., beyond Note#/on/off, your opinion should matter to you and a very few others. That's great for you, but for those of us who want/need to capture anything more expressive coming into the sequencer, those little toys that bring you such joy simply will not suffice.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:00 pm

The Grump wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:Give the SQUID 256 Pattern Sets per project like the SP-16 and it will be the greatest hardware sequencer ever created, IMO.
With your apparent lack of interest in recording incoming CC's, PC, etc., beyond Note#/on/off, your opinion should matter to you and a very few others. That's great for you, but for those of us who want/need to capture anything more expressive coming into the sequencer, those little toys that bring you such joy simply will not suffice.
I actually care about all of that as well and it's a shame that the SQUID does not deliver. There are ways to be expressive with the SQUID itself so there is some kind of work around as the SQUID does generate whatever CC you want AND I believe if you record your expression in to another sequencer and then export the .mid files, you can load them up in the SQUID with expression in place.

There is no work around for a lack of Pattern Sets.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "those little toys that bring you such joy" but it sounds pretty shitty so I assume you should GFY?

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Post by The Grump » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:05 pm

DiscoDevil wrote:it's a shame that the SQUID does not deliver.


The real shame is that you keep trying convince others of the validity of your personal choice to support a less capable tool, manufactured and mass marketed by a huge corporation that gives even fewer fucks about you than I do (if you can imagine such a thing), instead of a more capable tool, designed, manufactured, and already updated multiple times by individuals who genuinely do give a fuck about their customers and other musicians.

We get it, you like what the SQUID does, you're happy, yay for you. I am not impressed, not inclined to try it out, I have a tool that I love using, and your efforts to peel me from it are a failure. Have fun, go make more music.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:30 pm

The Grump wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:it's a shame that the SQUID does not deliver.


The real shame is that you keep trying convince others of the validity of your personal choice to support a less capable tool, manufactured and mass marketed by a huge corporation that gives even fewer fucks about you than I do (if you can imagine such a thing), instead of a more capable tool, designed, manufactured, and already updated multiple times by individuals who genuinely do give a fuck about their customers and other musicians.

We get it, you like what the SQUID does, you're happy, yay for you. I am not impressed, not inclined to try it out, I have a tool that I love using, and your efforts to peel me from it are a failure. Have fun, go make more music.

What the fuck are you even talking about? Half of this entire thread is me trashing the SQUID and the rest is me answering specific questions regarding functionality. Seriously, go fuck yourself.

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Post by DiscoDevil » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:38 pm

And if you're not interested in the SQUID... Why are you reading a thread about it? If anything I've tried to convince people NOT to buy it.

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Post by dubonaire » Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:43 pm

The Grump wrote:
DiscoDevil wrote:it's a shame that the SQUID does not deliver.


The real shame is that you keep trying convince others of the validity of your personal choice to support a less capable tool, manufactured and mass marketed by a huge corporation that gives even fewer fucks about you than I do (if you can imagine such a thing), instead of a more capable tool, designed, manufactured, and already updated multiple times by individuals who genuinely do give a fuck about their customers and other musicians.

We get it, you like what the SQUID does, you're happy, yay for you. I am not impressed, not inclined to try it out, I have a tool that I love using, and your efforts to peel me from it are a failure. Have fun, go make more music.
Lay off the crack dude your post is irrational. Nothing DiscoDevil has said comes anywhere close to efforts to peel you off it.

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Post by The Grump » Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:27 pm

dubonaire wrote:...Nothing DiscoDevil has said comes anywhere close to efforts to peel you off it.
DiscoDevil wrote:Give the SQUID 256 Pattern Sets per project like the SP-16 and it will be the greatest hardware sequencer ever created, IMO.
:hmm:
DiscoDevil wrote:And if you're not interested in the SQUID... Why are you reading a thread about it? If anything I've tried to convince people NOT to buy it.
A friend has one, and I was curious how they stack up against one another. After reading this thread, I have a better idea. I mean come on, who isn't still looking for that piece of gear that does the thing you wish the gear you already have would do?

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:05 pm

Bored of talentless trolls? me either.
We don't want to conquer space at all. We want to expand Earth endlessly. We don't want other worlds; we want a mirror.

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Post by Nelson Baboon » Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:07 pm

dubonaire wrote:
Bath House wrote:...your hysterical relentlessness...
:deadbanana: Exaggeration much?
was looking at comments about the squid, because I'm considering one.

this thread is an absolute fucking disaster. I'm fine with that description. I wish certain people would just fuck the shut up after making their point multiple times.

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Post by Panason » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:18 am

I wish people would STFU and stop trying to censor other people.

First we get Sir Ruff rudely telling DD to stop critcising the Squid, then we get Grumps rudely telling DD to stop praising the Squid.....

just STFU and let people share their views on pieces of fucking gear. Gear is not people and don't have feelings to be hurt, large corporations don't need your fanboyism to survive, so just STFU and let the comments on gear roll! :deadbanana:

PS just noticed kaosphere's hysteric comment and added to Ignore. Needs more kaos and less butthurt.

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Post by dubonaire » Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:03 am

Panason wrote:I wish people would STFU and stop trying to censor other people.

First we get Sir Ruff rudely telling DD to stop critcising the Squid, then we get Grumps rudely telling DD to stop praising the Squid.....

just STFU and let people share their views on pieces of fucking gear. Gear is not people and don't have feelings to be hurt, large corporations don't need your fanboyism to survive, so just STFU and let the comments on gear roll! :deadbanana:

PS just noticed kaosphere's hysteric comment and added to Ignore. Needs more kaos and less butthurt.
As much as I think you are critical to a fault I really do agree with you on this.

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