Behringer CS-80 Clone Renderings

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

Moderators: Kent, Joe., luketeaford, lisa

User avatar
coolshirtdotjpg
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1451
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: Freedom, NH

Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Thu May 09, 2019 1:08 pm

How many cork sniffers here own synths with chips produced by behringer? Considering many of the analog VCA/VCF chips are now produced by behringer, I'm guessing a lot. I don't like corporate shittiness any more than the next person, but it is really funny to me how many people think they can buy moog products and eat farm to table and enjoy their feelings of moral superiority. You can't fix a broken system by boycotting one company, and of all the shit that is wrong in the world, cloning old synths is very low on my list of ethical wrongs.

I have wasted so much time arguing with people over this, and their arguments are never consistent, and never seem to be broader than hating behringer. I am not saying they are a great company, but they are a means to an end, in the same way that every boutique synth you own was made with parts created in massive factories with underpaid workers.

The hyperbole in these conversations has reached a pitch that's truly laughable "A CURSE UPON YOUR CHILDREN FOR BUYING THIS ULTRA UNETHICAL PRODUCT - sent from my iPhone"
New video on Prophet 12 Drone Patches:
Prophet 12 Drone Patches

Panason
is banned
is banned
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:56 am

Post by Panason » Thu May 09, 2019 1:15 pm

and eat farm to table and enjoy their feelings of moral superiority
This hairless ape project needs a major re-boot if not a complete wipe.

Mars Attacks film relevant as ever!

sort of back to topic:
Image

A sucessful businessman, so clean cut. Mom would be proud... but does she know her boy didn't design any of this! :hyper:
Last edited by Panason on Thu May 09, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Red Electric Rainbow
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2274
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:48 am
Location: Chicago

Post by Red Electric Rainbow » Thu May 09, 2019 1:22 pm

motorhead412 wrote:It's only poaching if big bad Behringer does it. Never mind the countless numbers of small-scale manufacturers that have been "inspired" by older designs.

There also seems to be an implicit assumption that the components (e.g., resistors and caps) used by small-scale manufacturers are artisanal mom-and-pop products and not made in an industrial sweat shop by tiny Asian hands.

Synths for the 1%, everyone else can use freeware, ha.
insoul8 wrote:
calaveras wrote:It's the poaching. Not hard to understand. Since the 90's Behringer has been blatantly poaching designs of other companies both electronically and in the physical appearance.
It's in bad faith, bad taste and shouldn't be behavior we reward with our business.
Do you feel the same way about the Deckard's Dream? Or the stuff Acidlab does?
its so wild that its totally ok for a small company to do clones at huge price points but such a disgrace for behringer to do it at all. and the fact that its affordable in todays market some people dismiss it immediately as trash.
TOO FAR GONE

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Post by Shledge » Thu May 09, 2019 1:38 pm

The only reason why they're cheap is because behringer does everything within their own factories on a large scale. Their methods and use of components are no different to other companies.

I was pretty sceptical of Behringer until I got a Model D. Got an x32 mixer after that and it sealed the deal. They're not shite anymore - good build quality, sounds pretty good too. What I don't understand is people not accepting that and seeing for themselves - if it were a company like Roland, they'd wank all over it if they suddenly came back to their senses and made decent products.

They're still not a perfect company - they've done some greasy shit in the past, but that argument itself doesn't hold up well when you consider the points other members on this thread have mentioned.

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Post by Shledge » Thu May 09, 2019 1:48 pm

Funch wrote: I kind of amazed at the member to member abuse that goes on here on a site. I read one member refer to this site as a "miracle", really? When the moderators tolerate this abuse it sets the tone for the whole forum.
Members calling other members idiots for enjoying behringer synths isn't just "having an opinion". But being disingenuous and nitpicky is your particular talent, so I'm not surprised.

User avatar
tioJim
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:20 am

Post by tioJim » Thu May 09, 2019 1:52 pm

Shledge wrote:they've done some greasy shit in the past
Still doing it

http://cdm.link/2019/04/behringer-updat ... -products/

Pretty greasy

calaveras
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:02 pm

Post by calaveras » Thu May 09, 2019 1:52 pm

I wonder how many of the Behringer apologists would be so inclined if Behringer's products were priced similar to Moog, Waldorf and other companies that do their own R&D and pay their employees more than slave wages.

'every boutique synth you own was made with parts created in massive factories with underpaid workers.'

This is a false equivalency, and factually untrue. Manufacturers based in Sweden and Germany for instance can't victimize their workers the same way a Chinese factory can. Are there chips in some of these synths that ultimately came from pacific rim factories? Possibly. But not all Pacific Rim manufacturing is as fucked up as Chinese factories. Thailand, Taiwan and the Phillipines all have chip fab sites. Heck there are actually chip fabs in Europe believe it or not!

Besides this misses the point entirely. There are certainly parts that are only made in one factory, by one company. And you may have no other choice but to buy that odious non-fair labor practices part when trying to hit a design target.

We on the other hand DO have a choice of who we support with our wallets. There are many companies you can support, like Moog and Malekko, that build in the US. And who do not steal designs brazenly.

Moral superiority is not a thing. Nobody is paying more for synths, or clothes or 'farm to table' food so they can feel morally superior to someone else. It's because their conscience bothers them otherwise. Do you have one of those things? I'm sure Behringer doesn't make one, but most of us are born with them.

User avatar
Shledge
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3029
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2016 5:47 pm
Location: UK

Post by Shledge » Thu May 09, 2019 2:00 pm

tioJim wrote:
Shledge wrote:they've done some greasy shit in the past
Still doing it

http://cdm.link/2019/04/behringer-updat ... -products/

Pretty greasy
:doh:

Okay, that is pretty blatant, IK products are not even expensive. I thought they would be beyond this as they got in trouble over copying guitar pedals in the past. At least with synths, they're relying on expired patents and changing likeness enough to keep it legal.

User avatar
tioJim
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1018
Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:20 am

Post by tioJim » Thu May 09, 2019 2:19 pm

Shledge wrote:
tioJim wrote:
Shledge wrote:they've done some greasy shit in the past
Still doing it

http://cdm.link/2019/04/behringer-updat ... -products/

Pretty greasy
:doh:

Okay, that is pretty blatant, IK products are not even expensive. I thought they would be beyond this as they got in trouble over copying guitar pedals in the past.
Lolz. I know right?!

Ach, Behringer will be Behringer.

Panason
is banned
is banned
Posts: 3324
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:56 am

Post by Panason » Thu May 09, 2019 2:36 pm

Nobody is paying more for synths, or clothes or 'farm to table' food so they can feel morally superior to someone else. It's because their conscience bothers them otherwise.
In at least some cases I believe it's because they're very gullible... the "farm to table" being a very likely example.

I don't buy certain things for conscientious reasons but I try to keep my mouth shut about it or risk joining the moral superiority crowd. It's also a signifier of wealth, a way to show off, which seems to happen too.

User avatar
UltraViolet
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:10 pm
Location: Edinburg, Ohio
Contact:

Post by UltraViolet » Thu May 09, 2019 5:48 pm

calaveras wrote:I wonder how many of the Behringer apologists would be so inclined if Behringer's products were priced similar to Moog, Waldorf and other companies that do their own R&D and pay their employees more than slave wages.
Copying old classic synths is Behringer's concept of R & D training. Their engineers learned from copying and then went on to design the Neutron which is quite a nice design.

nadafarms
Buy and Sell
Posts: 452
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:53 pm

Post by nadafarms » Thu May 09, 2019 7:19 pm

Isn’t it obvious that they put out a rendering a week after Yamaha tests the waters with a cs-80 feeler post?

Looks like someone whipped this up real quick as a marketing tactic to deter Yamaha, I mean it’s makes zero sense to have all the tiny faders. No way would you put the tiny faders in for a budget synth remake, this is Behringer being douches IMO.

Hope Yamaha calls their bluff and makes a cs-80

calaveras
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:02 pm

Post by calaveras » Fri May 10, 2019 1:27 pm

https://www.musicradar.com/news/behring ... r-be-built

I mean but why? It's almost like Behringer is only in the synth community to piss people off. Hey here is this thing we could do, that a lot of your said you would buy if anyone made a full analog one again. We can do it! But we won't.

calaveras
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3495
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:02 pm

Post by calaveras » Fri May 10, 2019 1:31 pm

Panason wrote:
Nobody is paying more for synths, or clothes or 'farm to table' food so they can feel morally superior to someone else. It's because their conscience bothers them otherwise.
In at least some cases I believe it's because they're very gullible... the "farm to table" being a very likely example.

I don't buy certain things for conscientious reasons but I try to keep my mouth shut about it or risk joining the moral superiority crowd. It's also a signifier of wealth, a way to show off, which seems to happen too.
Where is this 'moral superiority crowd'? The whole concept reminds me of a WWE episode a long time ago where they had set up some wine and cheese on a long cloth covered table in the ring. Then played chamber music. And a bunch of 'rich snobs' just showed up in evening wear. All of them looking very elitist and snobby.

The only people that act out of 'moral superiority' are religious fundamentalists. That you are having such a hard time with this makes me suspect you are a high functioning sociopath.

User avatar
UltraViolet
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:10 pm
Location: Edinburg, Ohio
Contact:

Post by UltraViolet » Fri May 10, 2019 5:10 pm

calaveras wrote:
Panason wrote:
Nobody is paying more for synths, or clothes or 'farm to table' food so they can feel morally superior to someone else. It's because their conscience bothers them otherwise.
In at least some cases I believe it's because they're very gullible... the "farm to table" being a very likely example.

I don't buy certain things for conscientious reasons but I try to keep my mouth shut about it or risk joining the moral superiority crowd. It's also a signifier of wealth, a way to show off, which seems to happen too.
Where is this 'moral superiority crowd'? The whole concept reminds me of a WWE episode a long time ago where they had set up some wine and cheese on a long cloth covered table in the ring. Then played chamber music. And a bunch of 'rich snobs' just showed up in evening wear. All of them looking very elitist and snobby.

The only people that act out of 'moral superiority' are religious fundamentalists. That you are having such a hard time with this makes me suspect you are a high functioning sociopath.
There is a very legitimate organic movement for food that doesn't have pesticides and other poisons in it. There are also very legitimate concerns for doing less damage to the environment. But, there is a small elitist subgroup paying ridiculous prices for the so called perfect boutique organic, sustainable, etc. food. They tend to think that they are better than everyone else while in fact they are just overpaying to people who know how to play them. I think that is who was being referred to above.

User avatar
coolshirtdotjpg
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1451
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 4:13 pm
Location: Freedom, NH

Post by coolshirtdotjpg » Sat May 11, 2019 10:07 pm

calaveras wrote:I wonder how many of the Behringer apologists would be so inclined if Behringer's products were priced similar to Moog, Waldorf and other companies that do their own R&D and pay their employees more than slave wages.

'every boutique synth you own was made with parts created in massive factories with underpaid workers.'

This is a false equivalency, and factually untrue. Manufacturers based in Sweden and Germany for instance can't victimize their workers the same way a Chinese factory can. Are there chips in some of these synths that ultimately came from pacific rim factories? Possibly. But not all Pacific Rim manufacturing is as fucked up as Chinese factories. Thailand, Taiwan and the Phillipines all have chip fab sites. Heck there are actually chip fabs in Europe believe it or not!

Besides this misses the point entirely. There are certainly parts that are only made in one factory, by one company. And you may have no other choice but to buy that odious non-fair labor practices part when trying to hit a design target.

We on the other hand DO have a choice of who we support with our wallets. There are many companies you can support, like Moog and Malekko, that build in the US. And who do not steal designs brazenly.

Moral superiority is not a thing. Nobody is paying more for synths, or clothes or 'farm to table' food so they can feel morally superior to someone else. It's because their conscience bothers them otherwise. Do you have one of those things? I'm sure Behringer doesn't make one, but most of us are born with them.
So I guess none of those synths use integrated circuits made in china? Fat chance. I'm guessing you are writing this on a computer with no parts made in china as well? I'm guessing none of the money you earn to spend on grass fed hand assembled synths has no origin in a capitalist economy that relies on exploiting its worker? Of course, I agree there are degrees of difference, but its pretty clear that this moralizing is being selectively applied, and isn't very well thought through.
New video on Prophet 12 Drone Patches:
Prophet 12 Drone Patches

User avatar
h4ndcrafted
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4032
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Post by h4ndcrafted » Sun May 12, 2019 2:53 am

Funch wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
snufkin wrote:
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
snufkin wrote:buy Bs synths and your funding a rip off shop full of un happy unfulfilled people, not an RnD house with stressed creative people simple as. ;)
... and I don't care. Behringer makes a number of highly useful pieces of gear that is affordable for multitudes of people, including myself and my wife and brother. Beyond that, I don't care.

:tu:
The thing is you can chose to work with affordable gear made by companies who don't act as badly, DIY, or Buy used. Thing is most people don't want to make the extra effort.
... thing is many (most?) people don't care. Like me. There isn't a single manufacturer of pretty much anything that doesn't have skeletons in their closets. Most of us have at least one thousand items in our homes/cars/lives that were made in China. And most of us know that Chinese factories completely ignore human rights. And yet, we gladly throw our money into their economies.


You gotta learn to pick your battles. Life is far too short to take on the world and it's injustices. As I said before .... live by two rules .... 1.) Don't sweat the little stuff. 2.) It's all little stuff.

:despair:
"On the turning away
From the pale and downtrodden
And the words they say
Which we won't understand
"Don't accept that what's happening
Is just a case of others' suffering
Or you'll find that you're joining in
The turning away"

It's a sin that somehow
Light is changing to shadow
And casting it's shroud
Over all we have known
Unaware how the ranks have grown
Driven on by a heart of stone
We could find that we're all alone
In the dream of the proud

On the wings of the night
As the daytime is stirring
Where the speechless unite
In a silent accord
Using words you will find are strange
And mesmerized as they light the flame
Feel the new wind of change
On the wings of the night

No more turning away
From the weak and the weary
No more turning away
From the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It's not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there'll be
No more turning away?

Songwriters: Dave Gilmour / Anthony Moore"
Did you copy and paste that on a Chinese made computer :hihi:
We don't want to conquer space at all. We want to expand Earth endlessly. We don't want other worlds; we want a mirror.

User avatar
slumberjack
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 2:27 am
Location: 44G
Contact:

Post by slumberjack » Sun May 12, 2019 3:00 am

the hate around here is that incredible i might have to get religious to not get too depressed. on second page i asked myself where the mods are tbh.

there's a new interview, the haters gonna hate sure but some migth enjoy the read in german: https://www.amazona.de/interview-reiser ... -in-china/

what i got for sure that dsi is a major client of music tribe...with dem vco and vcf chips. and hints on margins. and all this stuff you don't belive or praise while trying to be objective...

nice sunday y'all...
> WTB ADDAC502 <

www.stefanrudin.bandcamp.com / www.soundcloud.com/stefan_rudin / www.youtube.com/user/slumberknut



Carefully crafted dj set meandering between deep house, minimal and electro.

User avatar
h4ndcrafted
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4032
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Post by h4ndcrafted » Sun May 12, 2019 3:17 am

Our father , who isn’t in heaven
Because only a human could come up with such a simplistic idea.
Going to hell be thy name
Except i’m not, because that’s silly too

Amen break


Happy Sunday to you too brother or sister or whatever.
We don't want to conquer space at all. We want to expand Earth endlessly. We don't want other worlds; we want a mirror.

User avatar
umma gumma
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 pm
Location: Canada

Post by umma gumma » Sun May 12, 2019 11:17 am

what, 3 pages and nobody has posted an image yet??

Image

I think they should call it the "BS-80"



:hihi:

User avatar
h4ndcrafted
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4032
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:27 pm

Post by h4ndcrafted » Sun May 12, 2019 3:13 pm

I’m calling it a synth that will probably get made and sound dope, but probably not that much like a CS-80
We don't want to conquer space at all. We want to expand Earth endlessly. We don't want other worlds; we want a mirror.

User avatar
UltraViolet
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:10 pm
Location: Edinburg, Ohio
Contact:

Post by UltraViolet » Sun May 12, 2019 4:35 pm

h4ndcrafted wrote:I’m calling it a synth that will probably get made and sound dope, but probably not that much like a CS-80
I agree it won't sound just like a CS-80, but I think it may end up being as close as Deckard's Dream. If they do that and do a good job with the keyboard, it will be a poor man's CS-80. Since you really need 2 or 3 vintage CS-80s in order to have one working most of the time, the price of the real thing is totally out of reach.

User avatar
umma gumma
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 pm
Location: Canada

Post by umma gumma » Sun May 12, 2019 8:50 pm

UltraViolet wrote:
I agree it won't sound just like a CS-80, but I think it may end up being as close as Deckard's Dream. If they do that and do a good job with the keyboard, it will be a poor man's CS-80. Since you really need 2 or 3 vintage CS-80s in order to have one working most of the time, the price of the real thing is totally out of reach.
and you could carry one under each arm; try that with a CS80!

:bananaguitar:

wilf_a
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:36 am
Location: London

Post by wilf_a » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:58 pm

tenembre wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 2:14 pm
Hmm, yet another poly without microtuning support?

Fine for most I guess, but for me, <sigh>

No space on the panel for it, but MTS dump would be acceptable. I'd probably have to say this on Gearslutz for it to even possibly matter...
I really want to second this!! If anyone from the team sees this, there's a whole lot of us out there that only really play with our own weird tuning systems, and it would really be a game changing thing for us to be able to get an affordable poly synth (the DS-80, Deepmind, etc). It's in the Prophet 5, DX7, and you can get microtonal midi hacks for early Junos and Jupiters, plus there's a badly done one in the Minilogue XD, but most of those aren't really affordable.
It's really not that complex to code it, and I'm sure there'd be people up for giving advice!

User avatar
Bowman
Common Wiggler
Posts: 224
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:23 pm
Location: Great White North

Re:

Post by Bowman » Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:46 pm

umma gumma wrote:
Sun May 12, 2019 11:17 am
what, 3 pages and nobody has posted an image yet??

Image

I think they should call it the "BS-80"



:hihi:
That does look beautiful. And “BS-80” would be fine with me. I’m following this.
"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" Elvis Costello (by way of Martin Mull)

Post Reply

Return to “General Gear”