SH-1 vs SH-101

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anselmi
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SH-1 vs SH-101

Post by anselmi » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:42 pm

I own a 101 with tubbutec expansion and some extras mods (filter FM, 3-range LFO, oscillator triangle wave) that I love to death

Now a guy offers me a SH-1 that sounds really good in the demos

Do you think that having both synths is redundant? I also have a complete 500 series Roland/Malekko modules (eurorack) so I don´t know if I need more analog Roland sound :despair:

what do you think?

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Post by nikmis » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:21 pm

now this is just me, to each his own and whatever, but I would. The sh-1 is a different synth. I believe the filter is a different circuit than the 101, so it should have a different flavor.

also, if you decide you don't like, it is absolutely going to retain its value and you can pass it along.

There's no denying it, but part of the appeal of owning vintage analogs is the internet synth street-cred you get and having a 101 and a 1 is a lot of street cred.

unless you mean the sh-01 boutique thing and I'm just confused

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Post by anselmi » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:32 pm

nikmis wrote:now this is just me, to each his own and whatever, but I would. The sh-1 is a different synth. I believe the filter is a different circuit than the 101, so it should have a different flavor.

also, if you decide you don't like, it is absolutely going to retain its value and you can pass it along.

There's no denying it, but part of the appeal of owning vintage analogs is the internet synth street-cred you get and having a 101 and a 1 is a lot of street cred.

unless you mean the sh-01 boutique thing and I'm just confused
thanks for your comment

no, I mean the SH-1...the vintage one

you are right about the vintage analog street-cred but I´m in Uruguay, and here the market for this kind of synths is close to zero

and yes, I know that the at least the VCO and VCF in both synths are different...not sure about the rest, but this alone could strong enough to make 2 synths sounds different, but anyway, Roland analogs always have a Roland flavor, like Moogs have their own kind of sound too...and having the 101 and the Roland modules covers a lot of this Roland-ish sound...I think...

but well, maybe this little differences counts...

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Post by dubonaire » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:38 am

anselmi wrote:
nikmis wrote:now this is just me, to each his own and whatever, but I would. The sh-1 is a different synth. I believe the filter is a different circuit than the 101, so it should have a different flavor.

also, if you decide you don't like, it is absolutely going to retain its value and you can pass it along.

There's no denying it, but part of the appeal of owning vintage analogs is the internet synth street-cred you get and having a 101 and a 1 is a lot of street cred.

unless you mean the sh-01 boutique thing and I'm just confused
thanks for your comment

no, I mean the SH-1...the vintage one

you are right about the vintage analog street-cred but I´m in Uruguay, and here the market for this kind of synths is close to zero

and yes, I know that the at least the VCO and VCF in both synths are different...not sure about the rest, but this alone could strong enough to make 2 synths sounds different, but anyway, Roland analogs always have a Roland flavor, like Moogs have their own kind of sound too...and having the 101 and the Roland modules covers a lot of this Roland-ish sound...I think...

but well, maybe this little differences counts...
They would probably work together really well. I'd say this is more of a "do I want to have a range of vintage synths?" question more than "will this give me the production edge I need?" question.

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Re: SH-1 vs SH-101

Post by m:o » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:58 am

anselmi wrote: and some extras mods (filter FM, 3-range LFO, oscillator triangle wave) that I love to death
May i ask what mods you hvae besides Tubbutec? The Circuit benders one?

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Post by Fallen_lassen » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:35 am

For looks alone it is worth it imo, cv keyboard for your system 500.
Internal synth is an extra :mrgreen:

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Post by Synthbuilder » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:48 am

For a time I had both the SH-1 and an Oakley modded SH-101. They used to sit next to each other. It was surprising both how alike they were for some sounds and how unlike they were in others. The SH-1 sounded better I think on simple sounds and when it was time to sell one of them the SH-101 went first.

These days I do all my monosynth stuff on my modular but if I had to have either of those back again it would probably be the SH-1. Although I prefer the keyboard of the SH-101 and love the little sequencer, the lack of a second envelope is very limiting.

Tony

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Re: SH-1 vs SH-101

Post by anselmi » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:22 am

m:o wrote:
anselmi wrote: and some extras mods (filter FM, 3-range LFO, oscillator triangle wave) that I love to death
May i ask what mods you hvae besides Tubbutec? The Circuit benders one?
yep...something like the nova mods but performed from zero, not following the nova bends and procedures

this was because my technician analyzed the way the nova mods are implemented and found a lot of irregularities like DC offset on the triangle, modulation bleeding, etc...so I just made a list of the stuff I want and he did them in his own way...sounds fantastic and you can really turn off all of them and have the original unaltered 101 sound, that for me it´s important too

I just bought a replacement battery cover to avoid drilling the original one, and he placed all the new controls there...just in case I want to remove them and have the unaltered version

the only permanent modification are the MIDI ports in the side

controls are (L to R) :

oscillator triangle volume
filter FM source 1 (square/off/saw) mixable with source 2
filter FM source 2 (sub/off/triangle)
filter FM amount
LFO range (high upt to audio rate/normal/veeeery slow)
filter CV input
LFO restart input





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Last edited by anselmi on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by anselmi » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:23 am

Fallen_lassen wrote:For looks alone it is worth it imo, cv keyboard for your system 500.
Internal synth is an extra :mrgreen:
ohhhh...shut up! don´t feed the little devil on my left shoulder!

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Post by Fallen_lassen » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:56 am

:lol:

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Post by WaveRider » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:20 pm

anselmi wrote:
nikmis wrote:no, I mean the SH-1...the vintage one

I had one, it's not a must have synth, it has a nice Roland acid sound but you are better served by your modules I think

..btw mine was hopelessly out of tune and a good technician pulled his hair over it and could not calibrate it


I love the SH synths...

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Post by Yellow » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:50 pm

Nice SH-101 and mods!

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Post by anomie » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:53 pm

dubonaire wrote:I'd say this is more of a "do I want to have a range of vintage synths?" question more than "will this give me the production edge I need?" question.
Smart point. Love the 101, but it's a one trick pony, and I don't think it and the SH-1 together make a racing stable. If you can afford it, having 2 is nice, but would the SH-1 let you make music you couldn't with just the 101? That's the question I always ask myself when considering new gear - internet bragging rights ain't gonna help you earn!

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Post by anselmi » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:18 pm

anomie wrote:
dubonaire wrote:I'd say this is more of a "do I want to have a range of vintage synths?" question more than "will this give me the production edge I need?" question.
Smart point. Love the 101, but it's a one trick pony
really? well...mine can do far more than just 1 trick! even without the mods

I use it a lot for arpeggios, bass lines, leads, fx, percussion, acid stuff, leads, even multitracked pads, just because this sound fits so well in most mixes

with the mods it´s another beast...still Roland but more modern and angry

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Post by dubonaire » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:26 pm

anselmi wrote:
anomie wrote:
dubonaire wrote:I'd say this is more of a "do I want to have a range of vintage synths?" question more than "will this give me the production edge I need?" question.
Smart point. Love the 101, but it's a one trick pony
really? well...mine can do far more than just 1 trick! even without the mods

I use it a lot for arpeggios, bass lines, leads, fx, percussion, acid stuff, leads, even multitracked pads, just because this sound fits so well in most mixes

with the mods it´s another beast...still Roland but more modern and angry
Yes I agree. I don't think it's a one-trick pony at all.

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Post by tobb » Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:30 pm

Forget the SH-1,get the SH-2 if you want absolutely that old SH series sound.

But yes the SH-101 fits better,and like you describe it.

basically you can do it with a SH-101,and other then the look those old SH-1 and SH-2 have nothing special AT ALL.

Nonsense a SH-1 sounds fatter or better then a SH-101 (like a seller in the for sale section tries to make us believe ,he just wanna get rid of his very basic sounding synth..),its also just a single vco synth

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Post by Tajnost » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:26 pm

SH-2 or SYSTEM-100 / 100m
:hihi:

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Post by Sir Ruff » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:11 am

As others have already said, the SH-1 isn't going to really expand your sonic potential a whole lot. The SH-101 has "that' sound and then all the extra stuff.

I would spend the money on something with at least two oscillators, or if you want vintage, something different like a Micromoog.

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Post by Nils » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:20 am

Hello Daniel :)
I sold my SH-1 just a couple of weeks ago. It’s a nice little synth with a great tone.

The basic sound is quite different to the 101. It’s very similar to the SH-7 and SH-2. The filter is a tiny bit more «hollow» sounding.

Functionally it’s very similar to the 101, imo the few extras (AR envelope, HP filter, bend envelope etc) don’t really make a big difference.
It does a have a neat little trick; when the ADSR is in LFO mode the LFO will restart with each key press. This «hidden» retrig enables key-trigged random filter cutoff, for example.
The AR envelope is handy, but it’s not as snappy sounding as the gate envelope in the SH-09, the SH-2 and the SH-101.

If you can get it for a decent price I’d say go for it, but the SH-2 is probably the better choice. It’s the best of the small Roland monos imo, a brilliant little synth.

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Post by computer controlled » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:37 am

I've had three SH-1s over the past 20+ years. I love them. They sound dissimilar enough from the 101 to justify both, but def has that Roland SH sound. They're built off of the System-100 i believe. But i may be wrong. And if i read correctly, the SH-1 is the bass in Yazoo's Situation.
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Post by Nils » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:19 am

computer controlled wrote:They're built off of the System-100 i believe. But i may be wrong.
I think it's very different from the System-100 (at least soundwise). If I got it right, it's electronically closest to the SH-7, but also very simiilar to the SH-09 and SH-2.

Here's a filter comparison between the 1, 2 and 7.
https://soundcloud.com/bomsedeisa/roland-sh-1-2-7

A description of the different Roland filters:
http://www.florian-anwander.de/roland_filters/

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Post by RedLab » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:35 am

Gotta say I'm a little puzzled about the posts claiming they should sound different.

Got a friend who have an SH-1 and we tested it against my SH-101 having them side by side:

Every single sound we came up with on one could be reproduced without any difference on the other (besides what could be achieved using their different features; one of them having a sequencer and the other a 2nd envelope, HPF, external in etc.)

Conclusion was they were sounding extremely alike

So yes, in my experience, having both is redundant unless you want a 2nd unit and/or need the different features

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Post by anselmi » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:00 am

Nils wrote:Hello Daniel :)
I sold my SH-1 just a couple of weeks ago. It’s a nice little synth with a great tone.

The basic sound is quite different to the 101. It’s very similar to the SH-7 and SH-2. The filter is a tiny bit more «hollow» sounding.

Functionally it’s very similar to the 101, imo the few extras (AR envelope, HP filter, bend envelope etc) don’t really make a big difference.
It does a have a neat little trick; when the ADSR is in LFO mode the LFO will restart with each key press. This «hidden» retrig enables key-trigged random filter cutoff, for example.
The AR envelope is handy, but it’s not as snappy sounding as the gate envelope in the SH-09, the SH-2 and the SH-101.

If you can get it for a decent price I’d say go for it, but the SH-2 is probably the better choice. It’s the best of the small Roland monos imo, a brilliant little synth.
Hi Nils! how do you doing?
thanks for the reply...this confirm what I though...I´ll keep my 101 and the modules...I´m very happy with them

and yes, the SH-2 is the one of the family that I´d like to add...it´s not expensive but it´s heavy enough to be a deal breaker because of the shipping costs and customs taxes here
Nils wrote: Here's a filter comparison between the 1, 2 and 7.
https://soundcloud.com/bomsedeisa/roland-sh-1-2-7

A description of the different Roland filters:
http://www.florian-anwander.de/roland_filters/
very interesting information, thanks!
a couple months ago I tried a SH-1000, that is a synth that I never care of before...and the filter catched my ears...here says that it´s a diode ladder one, similar (in description at least) to the SH-5...so maybe this new Roland module (the 505) could be an more interesting add on than a whole synth


nice to read you again
cheers!

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Post by Sir Ruff » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:50 am

RedLab wrote:Gotta say I'm a little puzzled about the posts claiming they should sound different.

Got a friend who have an SH-1 and we tested it against my SH-101 having them side by side:

Every single sound we came up with on one could be reproduced without any difference on the other (besides what could be achieved using their different features; one of them having a sequencer and the other a 2nd envelope, HPF, external in etc.)

Conclusion was they were sounding extremely alike

So yes, in my experience, having both is redundant unless you want a 2nd unit and/or need the different features
Yes, this has been my experience with all of these models as well. Although I didn't have a chance to A/B my SH-101 with the SH-1 I had recently, my expectation is that they would sound very similar, if not identical on certain sounds.

The key sonic difference that separate the SH-101 from the SH-09/2 is that the former's filter does not lose bass like the latter. The 101 CEMs are also perhaps a tad brighter. But that's it as far as I'm concerned. The sawtooth and "Roland" hollow squarewave and harmonically rich filter is the same in all of them, and this is evidenced by that 1/2/7 filter demo. Now, that's not to say that the 101 and SH-1/2, etc. won't be perceived as sounding different because of the difference in filter responses, but it's important to understand exactly WHY they sound different rather than just casting the usual subjective and meaningless "discrete 70s" vs. "chip-based 80s" terms that people usually use to compare them.

Also, I think people get way too caught up on specs--discrete vs. CEM, etc--and physical differences (crappy "old" keys vs. new regular ones) and let that bias their impressions, instead of just using their ears. At the end of the day, the Roland engineers did an exceptional job of using different technology to create an essentially homogeneous monosynth sound across their entire line. Any filter differences that exist between the SH-series are minute compared to, say, a Korg 700 vs. a Korg MS-20.

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Re: SH-1 vs SH-101

Post by m:o » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:28 pm

anselmi wrote:
m:o wrote:
anselmi wrote: and some extras mods (filter FM, 3-range LFO, oscillator triangle wave) that I love to death
May i ask what mods you hvae besides Tubbutec? The Circuit benders one?
yep...something like the nova mods but performed from zero, not following the nova bends and procedures

this was because my technician analyzed the way the nova mods are implemented and found a lot of irregularities like DC offset on the triangle, modulation bleeding, etc...so I just made a list of the stuff I want and he did them in his own way...sounds fantastic and you can really turn off all of them and have the original unaltered 101 sound, that for me it´s important too

I just bought a replacement battery cover to avoid drilling the original one, and he placed all the new controls there...just in case I want to remove them and have the unaltered version

the only permanent modification are the MIDI ports in the side

controls are (L to R) :

oscillator triangle volume
filter FM source 1 (square/off/saw) mixable with source 2
filter FM source 2 (sub/off/triangle)
filter FM amount
LFO range (high upt to audio rate/normal/veeeery slow)
filter CV input
LFO restart input
Interesting Anselmi. Is your technician ablte to do this again?
I have great interest in this an live in Germany. Would you mind making contact between the tech and me?

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