new Roland TR-8S plays samples

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TimeRaveler
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Post by TimeRaveler » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:47 pm

h4ndcrafted wrote:You have a fair amount of control over samples it seems, limitation is 256 samples , only first level folders will be seen within the sample folder.
Where do you see the 256 sample limit? I’ve only heard 600 total seconds.

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Post by drowld » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:56 pm

Why the limitations tho ? it's 600 sec in ram but not on the sd ?

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Post by spudboyblues » Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:31 pm

h4ndcrafted wrote:I think that manual covers most things doesn’t it ?

Here’s a gotcha, the edits from the menu, start point etc, to a sample apply to ALL kits

So no changing it per instrument except for the other controls on front panel.

That’s a bummer right? Since all the filter and env settings are in the menu :doh:
Seems to be the case. From page 17:
The settings you specify here [the sample edit screen] are common to all kits that use the same user sample
Personally, I don't have a huge problem with this, as I often don't use a sample more than once across kits when I perform live (each Kit would be a song). I can see the potential annoyance loading one sample 3-4x to utilize in different ways, though, especially if sample time / quantity of samples are limited. But if there are actually 256 sample slots, loading one 3-4 times doesn't seem like a huge hassle.

This does feel like a bit of a Rytm killer to me, especially as my main use for the Rytm is as a live drum machine layering samples with the machines on the Rytm. Also, SD Cards > c6.

Edit: Looks like there is in fact 600 seconds of sampling time - you load from the SD card onto the machine itself, so it doesn't read from the SD card but actually an internal drive that receives data from the SD.

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Post by AdamJay » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:20 pm

Very cool. But wow this thing has a big footprint.

I hope this forces Elektron's hand in a few areas.
-Customizable LED track colors sure would be nice.
-OB for DT needs to drop ASAP and be immediately usable, for the multi-track output.
-Total backup solution needs to happen ASAP. TR-8S allows you to save it all on an SD card. Great.

I wouldn't be surprised if Elektron has a renewed sense of urgency.
If this also had probability, they'd be sweating serious bullets.

If I wasn't so happy with the OT MK2 for drums, I'd pre-order the TR-8S.

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Post by DGTom » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:35 pm

Assuming the list of 'sample tone only' parameters listed under Inst Edit apply to user samples as well as on board ones (can't see why they wouldn't, but, this would be a great opportunity for Roland to F this up) I don't see the "sample edit" being global as a problem, it's just gain / start / end & you have to load the samples from a computer anyway so they should be redundant.

Start & End should REALLY be Inst Edit parameters, maybe user samples got tacked on too late in the design process. Would be cool if user samples could make use of the ALT somehow...

You should be able to double the number of user samples fairly easily by ping-ponging them as Inst Edit allows for reverse & the envelope looks decent.

This machine has me very interested. Looks like what Korg should have done with an upgraded ESX.

If only Roland had the balls to do a dedicated TR-S.

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Post by mateo » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:49 pm

rohelineoun wrote:
mateo wrote:No actual info on what you can do with the samples though
Roland has the full reference manual up as well. It goes into great detail. This thing looks like a monster.
Ah thanks, that's more like it!

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Post by chess1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:49 pm

Seriously ? I was hoping that you could parameter lock sample start points per step :goo: :cry: Still might grab one

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Post by spudboyblues » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:19 pm

Yeah you'd have to think that this is going to be something that comes in a firmware update. All the parameters are there, all that you'd need is for them to allow it to be mapped via the CTRL knob. Seems like a pretty easy win

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Post by GovernorSilver » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:26 pm

If you're more interested in p-locking sample start/end per step or an "updated ESX" I'd recommend a Digitakt/Octatrack instead, especially if you don't really care about the VA drum parts.

Would have been fine with me if Roland had instead released a TR-08 MkII, basically everything in the TR-8S minus the sample playback.

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Post by pelican » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:59 am

Panason wrote:The DT probably has a bit more sample manipulation ability but really it's a no-brainer. I'd take this over the DT any day... It may even make me consider selling my Rytm if it has proper MIDI sync and live pattern triggering over MIDI.
Negative, no midi pattern change
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Post by lisa » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:09 am

GovernorSilver wrote:Would have been fine with me if Roland had instead released a TR-08 MkII, basically everything in the TR-8S minus the sample playback.
Agree.

Also, I can't really grasp the comparison between the TR-8S and the Digitakt that I've seen elsewhere. What similarities are there? x0x-style sequencer with parameter locks and sample playback.

The Digitakt is a proper sampler that can sample externally or internally, resample, display the samples and edit them. The TR-8S isn't a sampler at all and can't even edit the sounds. On the other hand the TR-8S has fantastic drum synthesis that the Digitak has none of. In my opinion we're talking about two fundamentally different machines.
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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:44 am

TimeRaveler wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:You have a fair amount of control over samples it seems, limitation is 256 samples , only first level folders will be seen within the sample folder.
Where do you see the 256 sample limit? I’ve only heard 600 total seconds.
In the speach bubble here... at least I thought that was the case, I’m confused now by the second bubble, looks as if it’s per folder, that makes a lot more sense given the sample times, my bad sorry.
Image

So it seems samples are loaded into ram ? In a video I saw Mike A said they are not streamed from card, I wonder how much ram this thing has, given that other company’s seem so tight on it, presumably so they don’t kill their other products.
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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:59 am

lisa wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:Would have been fine with me if Roland had instead released a TR-08 MkII, basically everything in the TR-8S minus the sample playback.
Agree.

Also, I can't really grasp the comparison between the TR-8S and the Digitakt that I've seen elsewhere. What similarities are there? x0x-style sequencer with parameter locks and sample playback.

The Digitakt is a proper sampler that can sample externally or internally, resample, display the samples and edit them. The TR-8S isn't a sampler at all and can't even edit the sounds. On the other hand the TR-8S has fantastic drum synthesis that the Digitak has none of. In my opinion we're talking about two fundamentally different machines.
This, you can kinda edit samples but that changes them for every kit , start time , filter per track etc, all though surface level can be different. So it doesn’t have close to the edit options the Elektron has, if they fixed this then the Digi would be in real trouble.

The big difference for me is you have a wider range of sends and inserts and obv the performance aspect. I also have never liked Elektons output stage for some reason, I hear it on all their stuff, maybe it’s some internal limiter I don’t like the sound of ?
Last edited by h4ndcrafted on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:04 am

Anybody know about the stereo widening effect. I can understand how it works but not if the sound is already in stereo ? Or does it change the algorithm for that?

I wonder how it folds to mono, I know from plugins that do this, they are not all equal as some folded to mono introduce phasing due to the offset I.e a certain free one vs the BX digitals one that folds nicely.
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Post by chriscarter » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:37 am

h4ndcrafted wrote:Anybody know about the stereo widening effect. I can understand how it works but not if the sound is already in stereo
Pretty sure I read that you can only import mono wav or aif samples.

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Post by Panason » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:46 am

AdamJay wrote:
-OB for DT needs to drop ASAP and be immediately usable, for the multi-track output.
-Total backup solution needs to happen ASAP. TR-8S allows you to save it all on an SD card. Great.
Elektron are fucked. OB will never work as promised. You will always have digital audio sync issues if you are using another audio interface alongside OB. The new Elektron toys are not designed for serious studio use, but for people who just have one or two elektron boxes and a laptop. "Total backup" is a fucking joke they way they implemented it... it's like the awful iPhone sync where you can wipe the contents of your device with one click. Total BS that doesn't belong in studio gear.
Last edited by Panason on Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:56 am

chriscarter wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:Anybody know about the stereo widening effect. I can understand how it works but not if the sound is already in stereo
Pretty sure I read that you can only import mono wav or aif samples.
It can import stereo, hence the stereo sample times, 300 secs at 44.1
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Post by chriscarter » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:05 am

h4ndcrafted wrote:
chriscarter wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:Anybody know about the stereo widening effect. I can understand how it works but not if the sound is already in stereo
Pretty sure I read that you can only import mono wav or aif samples.
It can import stereo, hence the stereo sample times, 300 secs at 44.1
Oh Ok... I was going by this bit in the manual p17:

"The maximum length of a single audio file that can be imported is approximately 180 seconds (in the case of 44.1 kHz/MONO).
Depending on the state of memory usage, the maximum time might be shorter."

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:07 am

.nm
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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:18 am

chriscarter wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:
chriscarter wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote:Anybody know about the stereo widening effect. I can understand how it works but not if the sound is already in stereo
Pretty sure I read that you can only import mono wav or aif samples.
It can import stereo, hence the stereo sample times, 300 secs at 44.1
Oh Ok... I was going by this bit in the manual p17:

"The maximum length of a single audio file that can be imported is approximately 180 seconds (in the case of 44.1 kHz/MONO).
Depending on the state of memory usage, the maximum time might be shorter."
Yeah I think I did the same as you at first, bc I was like not another mono limitation, thankfully that’s not the case.

Worth a close read, I’ve found about 3 points that are a bit misleading if you are just skimming.
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Post by GovernorSilver » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:32 am

h4ndcrafted wrote: This, you can kinda edit samples but that changes them for every kit , start time , filter per track etc, all though surface level can be different. So it doesn’t have close to the edit options the Elektron has, if they fixed this then the Digi would be in real trouble.
It's ok to dislike Elektron products, but it's risky to buy a product with the hope that features that are not there today, will be added tomorrow. I've made that mistake a couple of times in the past.

If more capable sample playback is more important to you than the virtual 808/909/etc, I'm sure you can find alternatives to both Roland and Elektron.

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Post by Panason » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:38 am

pelican wrote:
Negative, no midi pattern change
No surprise there. It's just another Roland toy.

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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:38 am

GovernorSilver wrote:
h4ndcrafted wrote: This, you can kinda edit samples but that changes them for every kit , start time , filter per track etc, all though surface level can be different. So it doesn’t have close to the edit options the Elektron has, if they fixed this then the Digi would be in real trouble.
It's ok to dislike Elektron products, but it's risky to buy a product with the hope that features that are not there today, will be added tomorrow. I've made that mistake a couple of times in the past.

If you want more capable sample playback, I'm sure you can find alternatives to both Roland and Elektron
I totally agree, given Roland’s past experience, I certainly wouldn’t hold my breath. I would never by it in hope.
FWIW I love elektron products, I will always keep my MD. I just prefer the sound of other machines. Most samplers I love are too archaic for me these days.
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Post by h4ndcrafted » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:45 am

Are pelican and Panason ‘samefag’ as the school boys at chan would say?
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Post by pelican » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:52 am

wtf?
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