Mixer crisis...

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

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mousegarden
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Post by mousegarden » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:58 am

Wray wrote:
mousegarden wrote: Mackie desks are fine, but the EQ isn't that good to me, I have a small 1202VLZ at the moment as a sub mixer, it's great, clean, but that's about it. The 24 channel Mackie is also rather big, and a Mackie's secondhand value is almost nothing.
I'm afraid that's the 'concession part' ;)

But, I hope you find your mixer.

When you use usb you can do all the eqing in your daw
Thanks! I think the problem is always being very aware that modern recording is always a compromise/mixture between formats and ways of working, we mustn't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I need my cassette decks, I need my computer, editing on hardware is a total nightmare that I can't imagine going back to.
I need a mixer, that's for sure, maybe some sort of hybrid, early days yet, I'm sure they'll be something that fits the bill.
Last edited by mousegarden on Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Wray
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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:22 am

My friend is very happy with his midas http://m.musictri.be/Categories/Midas/M ... 24/p/P0AD5

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dubonaire
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Post by dubonaire » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:21 am

Wray wrote:My friend is very happy with his midas http://m.musictri.be/Categories/Midas/M ... 24/p/P0AD5
It's not really 19" wide though.

Although neither is the A&H Qu 24 - which is 24" wide, but would be my choice. I almost bought one.

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Wray
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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:50 am

dubonaire wrote:
Wray wrote:My friend is very happy with his midas http://m.musictri.be/Categories/Midas/M ... 24/p/P0AD5
It's not really 19" wide though.

Although neither is the A&H Qu 24 - which is 24" wide, but would be my choice. I almost bought one.
A real DIY person makes it into 19" himself with a saw.

Personally I don't like the color. My god it's blue...

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Wray
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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:51 am

But with a little paint from the shop ;)

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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:57 am

Lets be realistic. Is it physically possible to have all these options like direct outs, 4ch eq, 6xaux, 24 channels etc in 19"?
It's either less options and a smaller mixer or accept the format... All humans, animals, things, we all have to deal with earthly limitations. Or we go virtual all together! :)

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KaOsphere
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Post by KaOsphere » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:14 am

Already mentionned but X air 18 is :

- small
- transparent sounding
- has 18 in, 6 aux
- runs on OSX, Win
- has recallable presets/scenes using program changes
- Major functions responds to cc ( faders, auxes etc...)
- can be controlled by your phone, a tablet, your computer or a din midi controller ( if you want physical faders )using ethernet, wifi or midi
- is a 18/18 soundcard
- Has built in effects ( sidechain comp,eqs,filter, reverb, etc...)
- can be used totally standalone
- Costs 600 euros...

Downside :

- Only respond to midi channel 1 so you have to reserve this one for x-air
- Fixed cc so check the midi implementation chart and see if exposed functions suit you.
- Needs a din controller to get physical faders
- Interface could be easier
- Major downside is that there is "Berhinger" label on it for anyone to see your sold your soul to some sort of cheap devil...

Checks many boxes to me...
You could probably find one used for 200 less...
At that price point, risk seems fairly low...
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dubonaire
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Post by dubonaire » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:17 am

Wray wrote:Lets be realistic. Is it physically possible to have all these options like direct outs, 4ch eq, 6xaux, 24 channels etc in 19"?
It's either less options and a smaller mixer or accept the format... All humans, animals, things, we all have to deal with earthly limitations. Or we go virtual all together! :)
No there are a number of 19" rack solutions which use remote iPad eg:

https://www.soundcraft.com/en/products/ui24r

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Wray
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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:29 am

dubonaire wrote:
That's what I say... virtual...

When you want real faders, knobs and all the electronics under it, there's no such mixer at le moment. When I'm wrong, correct me.

Maybe there's a mixer with fold in/out faders and knobs! :))

In the future we will have holographic mixers. Zzzoom in/ out at the spot! Looking forward. Like giant roomsize mixers.

"Climb that fader!" Will be a new saying among soundengineers...

And when ready, you zoom it out and put it in your 19" rack! ;)
Last edited by Wray on Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by sneak-thief » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:47 am

mousegarden wrote:MY GAAAADDDD!!!

A&H Q24....you can't apply EQ per channel, you have to assign channels to sub-groups first. It takes a few button presses to just make faders post-fade, in short, it just confirms all I feared about digital mixers.
No, it's not happening, whatever the solution ends up being I'm sticking to analogue.
I don't have one but unless I'm missing something, what you say about applying EQ per channel doesn't match the manual:

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Post by calaveras » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:51 am

I've gone back and forth on this over the years.
Like the OP, I want to have everything plugged in and ready to play all the time. I'm making music with machines that are almost all synced to each other via MIDI, DIN sync, or just a modular clock pulse.
I can get it all in to the computer as individual tracks (only 4 tracks on the Machinedrum. Need to get another 8 channels of conversion).
But I miss having it on mixer channels with faders or knobs that you can grab quickly if stuff needs a level tweak.
It's also fucking great to have ye olde fashioned effects sends. Reverb on one, Delay on two. Maybe a second reverb on three?

I don't know the answer. I might be buying an SSL X desk later this year, or trying to find an old 90's 24 input British mixer. Like a Soundtracs or DDA.

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Post by xthrasherx » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:58 am

I'm also in a similar boat, but for now I have an XR18 air for an interface and a Boss BX16 for live jamming. It isn't perfect, but I'm enjoying using the fairly limited Boss for live performance, capturing just the stereo track (the idea was to force myself to "preform" and build confidence towards possibly doing a live set).

The XR18 has been very solid, but I've been concerned about the need for a computer / tablet to control it. I might look at the FaderFox MX12 as a solution for physical control over it. Seems like a solid work around. Someone over at Elektronauts was talking about how they used it in their live rig w/ program changes handling fx settings.
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Post by thevegasnerve » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:48 am

Well, we have successfully figured out a way to create yet another mixer thread... Congrats! Since I have removed a DAW from my setup, the mixer now gets all the attention. I hate large studio setups, its just really unsettling to me. I bought a patchbay once and refused to set it up. And every time setup hits that critical tipping point, I downsize. Although I did add a little Mackie Mix8 for my rompler synth so I could work with it separately. So I have no answers Mouse except consider simplifying your setup.

P.S. That doesnt mean I want the thread to die, I could read these all day. Here is my dream mixer at the moment. API - The Box

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Post by calaveras » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:56 am

I go back and forth every few years. The musician in me wants a mixer with big faders and solo buttons. The audio engineer in me prefers to not have a mixer at all but go direct to interface fo the best possible SNR.
Right now I am back to the compromise of using a Mackie 1202 to manage my modular and noisemakers. With my Elektron gear and various monosynths going direct to the Apollo. Am contemplating a second Apollo, or another row of AD converters to flesh out my inputs.
One thing that has NEVER worked for me is using a control surface. I really want a mixer with 16+ direct outs connected to the DAW. Then I can have my musician mix, and my individual tracks all recorded discretely for when the musician mix is not very good, but the performance is.

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Post by CF3 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:08 pm

TheDegenerateElite wrote:I don't have issues patching things and setting levels.


But then again, I don't multitrack the entire mixer in one go. Why would you into a DAW?
Exactly. What's the trouble? It's totally hands on. Personally I CAN'T STAND going direct to an interface and using a DAW as "mixer" for hardware. To me, it defeats the whole purpose. But, different strokes I guess...

Well, we have successfully figured out a way to create yet another mixer thread... Congrats!
:lol: I'm starting to think we need a dedicated "mixer" subforum.

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Post by roger » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:32 pm

Wray wrote:Lets be realistic. Is it physically possible to have all these options like direct outs, 4ch eq, 6xaux, 24 channels etc in 19"?
Soundcraft m12 has 20 ch, but otherwise fills the bill, but yes, you are right.

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Post by Panason » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:49 pm

If you' re just doing electronic music in a home studio and not mixing/recording actual musicians I don't see the need for physical faders. I prefer to set the maximum levels in the DAW and then use the synth/drum machine's own volume control if I want to do a live fade. This way I never have to worry about pushing the level too high. But I generally automate fades and don't mess with EQ settings.

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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:06 pm

Panason wrote:If you' re just doing electronic music in a home studio and not mixing/recording actual musicians I don't see the need for physical faders. I prefer to set the maximum levels in the DAW and then use the synth/drum machine's own volume control if I want to do a live fade. This way I never have to worry about pushing the level too high. But I generally automate fades and don't mess with EQ settings.
Not entirely.
I also work mostly alone.
But because of all the outboard gear like plate reverbs and other effects, I need a solid routing. Plus, when you work hybrid in & out of the box, for instance when (sub-)mastering on a r2r, or you want to make a sub-mix on r2r with outboard effects, you need a mixer.

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Post by thevegasnerve » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:09 pm

Panason wrote:If you' re just doing electronic music in a home studio and not mixing/recording actual musicians I don't see the need for physical faders. I prefer to set the maximum levels in the DAW and then use the synth/drum machine's own volume control if I want to do a live fade. This way I never have to worry about pushing the level too high. But I generally automate fades and don't mess with EQ settings.
While I see what you are saying for some styles of electronic music, I think some use the mixer as a performance tool while recording live, even if multi-tracking. I can setup/rotate two pedals quickly on an aux send and have inserts (although I don't use them), and sometimes move levels more effectively having the mixer present, while monitoring it live. I am adding noise for sure, that's okay. Plus I despise latency, freaks me out.

There really isn't a "right" way, just different methods depending on your approach. And some of the hardware mixing options are evolving with some digital options, which hopefully will continue.

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Post by Panason » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:15 pm

Sure. I don't use any hardware processing (no budget or space) so it's a different setup. I like being able to save all the routings and settings in the DAW for each project.

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Post by dubonaire » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:23 pm

thevegasnerve wrote:Well, we have successfully figured out a way to create yet another mixer thread... Congrats!
:yay:

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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:21 pm

CF3 wrote:
Well, we have successfully figured out a way to create yet another mixer thread... Congrats!
:lol: I'm starting to think we need a dedicated "mixer" subforum.
DO IT ADMINS!!!

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Wray
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Post by Wray » Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:40 pm

sutekina bipu-on wrote:
CF3 wrote:
Well, we have successfully figured out a way to create yet another mixer thread... Congrats!
:lol: I'm starting to think we need a dedicated "mixer" subforum.
DO IT ADMINS!!!
Basically, there's already much more extensive and professional information on mixers and everything else beside modulars & synths on Gearsluts.

Combining the two sites could be something.
Muffslut

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thevegasnerve
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Post by thevegasnerve » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Blasphemous!

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sutekina bipu-on
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Post by sutekina bipu-on » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:31 pm

Wray wrote:
sutekina bipu-on wrote:
CF3 wrote:
Well, we have successfully figured out a way to create yet another mixer thread... Congrats!
:lol: I'm starting to think we need a dedicated "mixer" subforum.
DO IT ADMINS!!!
Basically, there's already much more extensive and professional information on mixers and everything else beside modulars & synths on Gearsluts.

Combining the two sites could be something.
Muffslut
I've been a member of Gearslutz for 15 years now and it is a great site but honestly the synth section of it sucks and more often than not cooler people are here, plus you can talk about gear without the only people discussing it being in the context of rock or something non electronic

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