Motas-6 synth

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brickman
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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by brickman » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:40 pm

MotasSynth wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:47 am
In case anyone didn't know already here are some samples from Motas-6 I put together:
https://www.motas-synth.uk/patchBank4.html
https://www.motas-synth.uk/samples.html
Is there any chance the Motas-6 will ever be made with a keyboard ?

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Nelson Baboon
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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Nelson Baboon » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:34 pm

I personally doubt that Jon (a 1 person operation) will start putting out different versions of the motas-6. How many keyboard versions of a monophonic synth would get sold? but obviously I cannot answer this question, other than to state my opinion.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by dogoftears » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:44 pm

i think a cool thing would be to make a rack unit w many voices and outputs, to be controlled by a single knobby m6. could be used polyphonically or multitimbrally. would love this
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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Sun Nov 15, 2020 7:41 am

I can't speak for Motas but I also wouldn't hold my breath for any new hardware anytime soon. Jon's spent a long time developing the Motas-6 into what it is today and I think he's still very focused on maximizing its potential via firmware updates.
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Nelson Baboon » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:21 pm

set the 'thru + all' option, and now i'm getting the proper round robin polychain mode, but i'm still confused about how to get polyphony (in my case, duophony).

obviously, the 'thru + all' midi mode needs to be set as the output of the first unit if you want the patches and changes to be transmitted (I like the fact that you can also send controllers to the second unit independently, and edit it independently in this mode)...but it sounds like then you need to set polychain to off. Will this then play polyphonically if you send send notes to the first synth?

i will probably experiment with this later, but if someone could provide precise instructions for this, if possible, I'd appreciate it.
MotasSynth wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:01 am
Hi, Jon here from Motas Electronics.

To update the Motas-6 firmware the unit has to have MIDI input SysEx enabled (since the new firmware is sent via SysEx MIDI) and allow updates on. See section 17.13 and 17.15 of the user guide. I will update the software guide with more details on this as a priority.

To use the polychain the first unit in the chain (in a chain of 2) needs to have MIDI out set to THRU or THRU+ALL (see section 17.13 of the user guide v1.27) in order that your MIDI controller data is relayed to the 2nd unit. In the new mode THRU+ALL any MIDI generated from the 1st unit is intelligently merged with the incoming data which allows editing parameters on the first to be sent to the 2nd to allow operating the multiples synths 'as one' with the same sound settings at all times. Also loading patches on the first can be sent to the 2nd in this mode. Of course the 2nd unit needs to have its MIDI In set appropriately for this to work (see section 17.13 again), namely set to NRPN+SYSEX. Another option is to have the Motas-6 units not actually in a chain but individually sent the MIDI data from your controller using e.g. an external MIDI splitter/multiple THRU unit, or PC software and individual USB connections. In this case the possibility to edit parameters on the first unit being sent to the second is probably lost (depending on your setup of this) but the units will still play polyphonically as the 'polychain' implementation is not a 'note-stealing' algorithm but a much more comprehensive round-robin algorithm that does not require the units actually in a physical chain...

I apologise if the instructions are unclear or sparse. I have started work on a new 'How To...' guide to compliment the existing user guide to try to make things easier in future. I know that due to the complexity and depth of Motas-6 sometimes it is hard to remember how to use every feature! The reason for the number of options and flexibility is that I don't like to restrict the possible ways Motas-6 could be used, but the downside is the potential for confusion in setting things up.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by MotasSynth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm

Nelson, it sounds like you are almost there if you have 'thru + all' set....Polychain needs to be ON for both units. You can still edit the patches on #1 and they will send the settings to #2 - this is not a feature of polychain in fact. Polychain is just all about controlling which notes are played on which unit. Both units need to have number of polychain devices set to 2 with unit # 1 set to '1 of 2' and unit #2 set to '2 of 2'. Just play polyphonically into unit #1 and the note data will be relayed to #2 via your MIDI connection.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by MotasSynth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:34 pm

brickman wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:40 pm
MotasSynth wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:47 am
In case anyone didn't know already here are some samples from Motas-6 I put together:
https://www.motas-synth.uk/patchBank4.html
https://www.motas-synth.uk/samples.html
Is there any chance the Motas-6 will ever be made with a keyboard ?
There are no plans to make a keyboard version and I think this would be very unlikely, at least for the foreseeable future. There would need to be significant manufacturing effort to achieve this and unfortunately, as others have pointed out, I'm not convinced there would be enough demand to make it worthwhile.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Nelson Baboon » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm

MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm
Nelson, it sounds like you are almost there if you have 'thru + all' set....Polychain needs to be ON for both units. You can still edit the patches on #1 and they will send the settings to #2 - this is not a feature of polychain in fact. Polychain is just all about controlling which notes are played on which unit. Both units need to have number of polychain devices set to 2 with unit # 1 set to '1 of 2' and unit #2 set to '2 of 2'. Just play polyphonically into unit #1 and the note data will be relayed to #2 via your MIDI connection.
ok - that's what the manual seems to be saying. I guess i'm having trouble understanding the logic, which will probably become more clear later. In other words, when I send 1 note at a time to #1, the synths alternate with each note. So, if i send 2 notes simultaneously, it will alternate 2 notes at a time? What if I just want to use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?

in any case, i'll test it out later. It's really nice that you're here in this forum, btw. I prefer it here to Gearslutz!

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by MotasSynth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:38 pm

dogoftears wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:44 pm
i think a cool thing would be to make a rack unit w many voices and outputs, to be controlled by a single knobby m6. could be used polyphonically or multitimbrally. would love this
There are no current plans to do this, but it is a more likely possibility than the added keyboard option, and I can see the attraction (at least in theory)... right now (as Petajaja has said) I am focused on the current Motas-6 and still very actively adding features and improving the firmware OS.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by MotasSynth » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:47 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm
MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm
Nelson, it sounds like you are almost there if you have 'thru + all' set....Polychain needs to be ON for both units. You can still edit the patches on #1 and they will send the settings to #2 - this is not a feature of polychain in fact. Polychain is just all about controlling which notes are played on which unit. Both units need to have number of polychain devices set to 2 with unit # 1 set to '1 of 2' and unit #2 set to '2 of 2'. Just play polyphonically into unit #1 and the note data will be relayed to #2 via your MIDI connection.
ok - that's what the manual seems to be saying. I guess i'm having trouble understanding the logic, which will probably become more clear later. In other words, when I send 1 note at a time to #1, the synths alternate with each note. So, if i send 2 notes simultaneously, it will alternate 2 notes at a time? What if I just want to use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?

in any case, i'll test it out later. It's really nice that you're here in this forum, btw. I prefer it here to Gearslutz!
Yes, playing 1 note at a time will alternate with #1 playing then #2 then #1 etc. Playing 2 notes together will cause #1 to play the first note down (with MIDI the data is serial so there is always one down first, even with 2 notes played 'at the same time') then #2 will play the 2nd note - so we have a duophonic effect. Then, if the 1st note is released it will decay with the 2nd note still sounding... It is rather complex in words to explain all the actions that occur when more notes are played and others are released etc but that is all in the algorithm for the polychain... Please try it and see how you get on :)

Not sure what you mean by 'use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?' - Motas-6 is monophonic (or paraphonic) so it cannot do this...
If you want both synths to try to play all notes then, yes, just disable polychain.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by brickman » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:31 pm

MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:34 pm
brickman wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:40 pm
MotasSynth wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:47 am
In case anyone didn't know already here are some samples from Motas-6 I put together:
https://www.motas-synth.uk/patchBank4.html
https://www.motas-synth.uk/samples.html
Is there any chance the Motas-6 will ever be made with a keyboard ?
There are no plans to make a keyboard version and I think this would be very unlikely, at least for the foreseeable future. There would need to be significant manufacturing effort to achieve this and unfortunately, as others have pointed out, I'm not convinced there would be enough demand to make it worthwhile.
Thanks for the reply. It's a pity, but understandable.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Nelson Baboon » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:06 pm

MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:47 pm
Nelson Baboon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm
MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm
Nelson, it sounds like you are almost there if you have 'thru + all' set....Polychain needs to be ON for both units. You can still edit the patches on #1 and they will send the settings to #2 - this is not a feature of polychain in fact. Polychain is just all about controlling which notes are played on which unit. Both units need to have number of polychain devices set to 2 with unit # 1 set to '1 of 2' and unit #2 set to '2 of 2'. Just play polyphonically into unit #1 and the note data will be relayed to #2 via your MIDI connection.
ok - that's what the manual seems to be saying. I guess i'm having trouble understanding the logic, which will probably become more clear later. In other words, when I send 1 note at a time to #1, the synths alternate with each note. So, if i send 2 notes simultaneously, it will alternate 2 notes at a time? What if I just want to use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?

in any case, i'll test it out later. It's really nice that you're here in this forum, btw. I prefer it here to Gearslutz!
Yes, playing 1 note at a time will alternate with #1 playing then #2 then #1 etc. Playing 2 notes together will cause #1 to play the first note down (with MIDI the data is serial so there is always one down first, even with 2 notes played 'at the same time') then #2 will play the 2nd note - so we have a duophonic effect. Then, if the 1st note is released it will decay with the 2nd note still sounding... It is rather complex in words to explain all the actions that occur when more notes are played and others are released etc but that is all in the algorithm for the polychain... Please try it and see how you get on :)

Not sure what you mean by 'use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?' - Motas-6 is monophonic (or paraphonic) so it cannot do this...
If you want both synths to try to play all notes then, yes, just disable polychain.
yes. of course i realize that these are monophonic synths. sorry that i was struggling to verbalize my question to exist with the polychain framework.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:31 pm

Nelson Baboon wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:06 pm
MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:47 pm
Nelson Baboon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:37 pm
MotasSynth wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:26 pm
Nelson, it sounds like you are almost there if you have 'thru + all' set....Polychain needs to be ON for both units. You can still edit the patches on #1 and they will send the settings to #2 - this is not a feature of polychain in fact. Polychain is just all about controlling which notes are played on which unit. Both units need to have number of polychain devices set to 2 with unit # 1 set to '1 of 2' and unit #2 set to '2 of 2'. Just play polyphonically into unit #1 and the note data will be relayed to #2 via your MIDI connection.
ok - that's what the manual seems to be saying. I guess i'm having trouble understanding the logic, which will probably become more clear later. In other words, when I send 1 note at a time to #1, the synths alternate with each note. So, if i send 2 notes simultaneously, it will alternate 2 notes at a time? What if I just want to use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?

in any case, i'll test it out later. It's really nice that you're here in this forum, btw. I prefer it here to Gearslutz!
Yes, playing 1 note at a time will alternate with #1 playing then #2 then #1 etc. Playing 2 notes together will cause #1 to play the first note down (with MIDI the data is serial so there is always one down first, even with 2 notes played 'at the same time') then #2 will play the 2nd note - so we have a duophonic effect. Then, if the 1st note is released it will decay with the 2nd note still sounding... It is rather complex in words to explain all the actions that occur when more notes are played and others are released etc but that is all in the algorithm for the polychain... Please try it and see how you get on :)

Not sure what you mean by 'use both synths polyphonically without any 'round robin'?' - Motas-6 is monophonic (or paraphonic) so it cannot do this...
If you want both synths to try to play all notes then, yes, just disable polychain.
yes. of course i realize that these are monophonic synths. sorry that i was struggling to verbalize my question to exist with the polychain framework.
How're you getting on with the Polychain stuff? I've found it easiest so far to set it up being sending the midi settings and polychain settings using the transmit function by pressing +

I've been really enjoying it, it's a lot of fun designing patches from the one Motas while hearing the two play together polyphonically.
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Nelson Baboon » Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:38 pm

it's definitely fun, moving from syncing the 2 to editing parameters on #2 which then diverges that synth from the first, etc. Or sending #2 cc values.

it looks like setting off the random patch on synth #1 does NOT automatically transmit the random function to #2, which I like.

lots of experimentation left to try.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:41 pm

That's really cool regarding the random function, I've been meaning to do a demo of that anyway so I'll probably do it with the two units with the same patch loaded and then triggering the randomize via cc and listen to the two patches diverge from each other.

I've not used the polychain stuff nearly as much as I'd like to, most of my experimentation with it currently is with sequencing parameter changes through the MotasEdit program and Architect, it's actually blowing my mind how much is possible here and it seems to work flawlessly, I've not been able to get the Motas to freeze or anything despite sending it a LOT of automation.

Will be doing more with the polychain stuff now over the next few days and hope to have something to share soon.
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by MotasSynth » Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:04 am

Released today:
MotasEdit - version 1.09 now adds editing of patch parameter mappings https://www.motas-synth.uk/news.html

--------------------------
v1.0.9
Feature: added editing of parameter/CC mapping
Feature: improved default file location handling
Feature: added support for VCO2/3 infra- and ultra-sonic modes
Feature/Bug-fix: added MIDI channel choice operation, previously was fixed at NRPNs sent on ch1, SysEx on ch2
Bug-fix: Corrected text error on LPF1 resonance choice.
--------------------------
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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Nelson Baboon » Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:06 pm

Goddamn. i've never seen such serious dedication, and this is a one person operation. I might not set up the new firmware until the long weekend, but i really want to work on some drones with these, and there will be time. If you're on the fence about the motas-6, compare the rate of development with any other fucking synth in all of recorded history.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Tue Nov 24, 2020 5:46 am

Really nice update and great timing what with me making more and more use of the editor, the Motas goes completely insane when you combine all its internal modulations with additional modulations from software through the editor. Thanks for your continued support!
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by chaosick » Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:55 pm

Success! Looking forward to integrating one into my otherwise mostly modular setup.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:38 am

I was watching a video on the Pulsar 23 earlier and thought it was really cool but ultimately can't afford to spend out that much on gear and also the CV aspect of it doesn't really work with the way I do music.

Anyway.. looking at the sections on there, it got me thinking if I couldn't eventually do something similar with the Motas due to how much potential control you have over everything.

I spent about 10 minutes making a patch on the Motas and putting together a sequencer in Architect and this recording was the result with me messing around with some of the filter settings on the Motas while recording.



Looking forward to exploring this more and optimizing the Architect patch and the patch on the Motas itself for this stuff in the future. This has come to be another thing I really love about the Motas - Because of the level of control you have over everything due to its powerful digital brain, you can build things in software for it to take it even further.. for example, I'm working on a 303 sequencer which will model the accent behavior of the 303 for the Motas, what I've managed to achieve with this so far is reassuring that I should be able to get some really nice results here.
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:55 am

Hey everyone, I recently had the idea to try and model the 303's behaviour in the Motas and thought I'd share a quick recording I made going through its classic sounds but moving on to things that only the Motas can do.



While it's definitely not quite there, I think the potential is there to get pretty close to the original sound, I've got some ideas on how I could maybe improve it but will probably wait a bit before I give it another go.
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by monads » Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:45 pm

^The 303 modeling is really nice Petajaja!!! Need to push resonance in some cases for a closer model/results.

So after my posting/receiving the unit this instrument has taken me some minutes to wrap my head around. It sounds awesome, but what has taken me extra time to digest is the powerful digital architecture built around. It's not like your typical conventional synth. Sometimes the manual throws you off when referring to Patch Summary vs. Patch Overview and meaning one and the same. Or like 'Global' LFOs/Envelopes but not located in the Setup menu which is where I'd expect to set & forget. My next steps are to explore the plug-in/editor integration.

For sure the more time I spend with the instrument the more comfortable I become and amazed.

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by Petajaja » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:16 am

Hey, happy you like the recording, it definitely could've been better and the resonance as you mentioned is part of the issue.. I'm not able to crank it as much as I'd ideally have liked because of the way I'd done the accent which gives it a bit of a resonance boost which was too much at times.

Cool to hear you got your unit and that you're enjoying it, there is definitely a bit of an adjustment period as it is very different than anything else out there but I'm certain it'll quickly become second nature for you and when it does, you'll start to wonder how you ever dealt with so little mod sources on other gear!

Would be really curious to hear anything you make with it or anyone else than myself who owns one for that matter! It's such a great synth but I can't help but feel I fall into certain traps with how I approach it and that there's probably so much uncharted sound territory I've yet to have touched upon. An example of this is that I'd kind of overlooked syncing a VCO to another and then using the sync'd VCO as a source of PM.. Much more stable results with this and also you're able to pull off some really weird and usable timbres via this. for example with the PMing VCO tuned a 5th down and dialing the amount in right, you end up with what sounds almost exactly like a saw wave which you can then alter the shape of slightly or drastically if you want.

The Motas is honestly the most inspiring piece of gear I've ever played due to the endless ways I can approach it, controlling it from my computer has definitely been one of the big breakthroughs for me recently so I definitely recommend checking out that editor!
Check out my Motas-6 demos over at: https://soundcloud.com/retroreflector :love:

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by grizzleb » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:47 am

Petajaja wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:55 am
Hey everyone, I recently had the idea to try and model the 303's behaviour in the Motas and thought I'd share a quick recording I made going through its classic sounds but moving on to things that only the Motas can do.



While it's definitely not quite there, I think the potential is there to get pretty close to the original sound, I've got some ideas on how I could maybe improve it but will probably wait a bit before I give it another go.
just had a flick through - sounds absolutely great!

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Re: Motas-6 synth

Post by monads » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:00 am

Petajaja wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:16 am
.....Cool to hear you got your unit and that you're enjoying it, there is definitely a bit of an adjustment period as it is very different than anything else out there but I'm certain it'll quickly become second nature for you and when it does, you'll start to wonder how you ever dealt with so little mod sources on other gear!.....
It actually clicked in my little brain today!! I spent the first few hours reading the manual in-front of the synth. Took a few days off...rinse/cycle/repeat and then clicked! The manual does need improvements in areas. I love the modulation options, but I'm not gonna hide the fact I miss the immediate visualization of a mod matrix to display what I'm modulating. The Patch Summary/Overview does give some insights via LFO fluctuations, but difficult to see EG mods for example.

Sometimes I could see myself falling into the same traps you discovered like 'overdriving' the Mixer or Output sections! But it sounds soo good! I do wish we could save VM patches (references to stored sounds at least), and ability to Export archive/easy recall.

Motas-6 is definitely a unique/amazing instrument. Not for 1st time synthesis enthusiasts or your starter synth though.

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