Deckard's Dream

Any music gear discussions that don't fit into one of the other forums.

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The Disquiet
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Post by The Disquiet » Tue May 02, 2017 4:09 pm

very interesting, but I'm slightly worried about the intonation problems I'm hearing in some of the demos... Due to beta version of the control software, or is the prototype not properly tuned yet?

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Post by wagoo » Wed May 03, 2017 6:48 am

Looks like preorders are live :banana:

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PYJAMAGROOVE
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Post by PYJAMAGROOVE » Wed May 03, 2017 8:29 am

As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close. Fantastic job. :hail:
If they would replicate the original presets it would be killer.

Now what it should also have is an optional 224-like reverb card to complete that "certain classic 80s sound"...Call it a Deckard's Dream with an "Large Greek Hall" reverb....

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Post by ualslosar » Wed May 03, 2017 8:44 am

Where do I pre-order, please?

Thanks
Larry

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Post by bkbirge » Wed May 03, 2017 9:02 am

Looks like output is mono? I see an expander port, will that have individual outs for the 8 voices? The DIY version is pricey but still tempting, the fully built I think I'd wait to see reviews in the wild before plunking down that much cash.

Modular & Dork Rock:
https://bkbirge.bandcamp.com/
Racks:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/88730
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


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Post by ualslosar » Wed May 03, 2017 9:27 am

Thanks for the website.

Pre-order only for completed units at the moment.

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Post by ualslosar » Wed May 03, 2017 9:30 am

Update - Not just for completed units.

Go to "Store" and find pcbs as well as completed units.

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Post by numbertalk » Wed May 03, 2017 9:30 am


nvining
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Post by nvining » Wed May 03, 2017 9:46 am

CS80 owner thoughts:

It looks like they chose to use the recently re-issued Curtis CEM3340 oscillators as their VCO, and then elected to reintroduce the waveshaper defects (the 30 usec ramp, etc.) after the fact. Interesting. Compare this to http://www.cs80.com/vco.html and the CS80 service manual, which show that it's a charge pump, saw-core oscillator. I wonder why it was done this way? It probably also means that internally Deckard isn't running on Hz/V and is running as V/Oct, which makes me worry about the behavior of the eventual pitch ribbon.

The filters don't sound quite right, either. Compare to Scott Rider's CS80 Shruthi board: http://www.cs80.com/shruthi/ which instantly screams CS80 to me, much more than Deckard does, despite putting totally different digitally generated waveforms through it. It seems like it's missing a thunkiness or something; part of that thunkiness may be because the ring modulator isn't there yet.

It's a difficult situation. I think if you're going to try to take down the king, you'd better come at him with everything you've got. I'm going to get one anyway, because frankly it's still an amazing piece of engineering and it's certainly good enough to gig, but it isn't quite at the point where I can sell my CS80 and stop lugging around a 220lb behemoth that may die at any moment.

Oh well, there's always Scott's CS(R)-80...

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Post by phutureboy » Wed May 03, 2017 10:43 am

PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.
As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :
[video][/video]
Last edited by phutureboy on Wed May 03, 2017 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by bkbirge » Wed May 03, 2017 10:47 am

The front page on the Deckard site says...
"Replicants are not Clones"

And then the FAQ, in response to "Is this a clone?" says...
We were inspired by this wonderful synthesizer when were designing the Deckard’s Dream, but had to do everything from scratch. No single part of a circuit is equal to the CS-80, first of all because it was done using custom and exclusive chips back in the 70s. However we did pay attention to many details of the synth architecture, oscillator waveshapes (like the sawtooth glitch which is a big part of the CS-80 sound), filter topology and of course the modulation possibilities. With the help of modern technology, it became possible to have the same level of expression as the CS-80. However MPE technology this expression even further with the addition of polyphonic pitchbend etc. Despite all this, please don’t expect exactly the same behavior – even if it is very close, it’s still a very modern synthesizer.

Modular & Dork Rock:
https://bkbirge.bandcamp.com/
Racks:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/88730
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/89177
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/379579


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Post by ZZ Ardoz » Wed May 03, 2017 10:51 am

phutureboy wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.
As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :
[video][/video]
I'm very happy with my ME80

Still though, this would look lovely in the collection...

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Post by visible cow » Wed May 03, 2017 11:31 am

Unless I'm misreading the site, it looks like the built unit is about $1200 cheaper than the $5000 mentioned earlier (around $1200 for preorder plus an additional $2500 or so...). I think it sounds fantastic though I have no experience with a cs80.

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Post by phutureboy » Wed May 03, 2017 11:58 am

@bkbirge
Thanks for mentioning, sounds like it's an accurate clarification.
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Post by sinowhy » Wed May 03, 2017 1:10 pm

nvining wrote:CS80 owner thoughts:

It looks like they chose to use the recently re-issued Curtis CEM3340 oscillators as their VCO, and then elected to reintroduce the waveshaper defects (the 30 usec ramp, etc.) after the fact. Interesting. Compare this to http://www.cs80.com/vco.html and the CS80 service manual, which show that it's a charge pump, saw-core oscillator. I wonder why it was done this way? It probably also means that internally Deckard isn't running on Hz/V and is running as V/Oct, which makes me worry about the behavior of the eventual pitch ribbon.

The filters don't sound quite right, either. Compare to Scott Rider's CS80 Shruthi board: http://www.cs80.com/shruthi/ which instantly screams CS80 to me, much more than Deckard does, despite putting totally different digitally generated waveforms through it. It seems like it's missing a thunkiness or something; part of that thunkiness may be because the ring modulator isn't there yet.
I was wondering about that VCO too, is this the very first new poly based off the CEM3340 reissue? that was unexpected.. and kind of a big deal?

What did he do to modify the CEM3340 sound to invoke the yamaha?

I chalked the demo sound difference up to its use of tight sequenced arps and open rez filter.. but after listening to that demo I'd be interested in knowing how the filter topology is at approaching that mellow CS sound.
Is the deckard an attempt at a discrete version of the CS IC? like a GX1? or, like the CEM3340 VCO, is it a different filter approach and the 'topology' comment in the FAQ is a reference to the voicing and modulation layout of the CS?

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Post by dougt » Wed May 03, 2017 10:09 pm

I don't get this. If you're not going to come close to the original circuits why not just build a controller?

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Post by SynthBaron » Wed May 03, 2017 10:36 pm

CEM3340's and SSM2164's...I guess that kinda answers my question about why there's way less parts than the originals.

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Post by SynthBaron » Wed May 03, 2017 10:38 pm

dougt wrote:I don't get this. If you're not going to come close to the original circuits why not just build a controller?
Probably the least profitable part.

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Post by SynthBaron » Wed May 03, 2017 10:39 pm

phutureboy wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.
As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :
[video][/video]
First time I've ever come across this VA, and after listening to the demos on the site it's the most spot-on softsynth I've ever heard. Just nails that CS filter sound perfectly.

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Post by nvining » Thu May 04, 2017 2:33 pm

SynthBaron wrote:CEM3340's and SSM2164's...I guess that kinda answers my question about why there's way less parts than the originals.
(Disclaimer: I am clearly turning into One Of Those People Who Overanalyze Synthesizers.)

To be clear, I think there's no problem with the 2164 here. My guess is that it's used for the VCF as well as the VCAs, which makes perfect sense - Scott Rider's MOTM480 mk. ii is also based around the V2164. It's a good, useful part. If you ask Dr. Sketch-and-Etch here nicely, he will spend multiple hours telling you how good it is. It's the CEM that is confusing everybody.

An additional point that was made on AH which I hadn't thought of: because the CS80's VCOs use the Hz/V standard, you don't get linear detuning effects. As the late great Jurgen Haible noted: "Offset voltages are a big issue along the CV path in that synth [the CS80], and must be carefully trimmed. What portion of it is left untrimmed, will result in "linear detuning". It makes a CS-80 with its 2 VCOs per voice sound huge - the smaller ones, less so."

If I had to guess why the CEM was used, and then had custom waveshapers put on it, it's to minimize the need for temperature control circuitry. The CS-80s VCOs use a charge pump oscillator design (hence the little 30 usec tick on the saw wave); the only other design I know of in a shipping synth that uses that is the Rhodes Chroma. You can read a description of its VCO here:

http://www.rhodeschroma.com/?id=chamberlin

In this case, the Chroma VCO has a standard exponential converter made out of a matched transistor pair, with a tempco resistor stuck on it. The CEM3340 theoretically does all that for you on board, hence no need for a tempco, just a good autotune routine.

My bigger worry about the filter is that it is missing a certain liquid quackiness. Listen to which has the resonance cranked up. I haven't heard any of the demos where it has that characteristic metallic skronky goodness. On the CS80 this really shows up on the "Funky 1" and "Funky 2" presets.

That said, the question that we should be asking is "is this cool on its own right?" What we're getting is... more like a Voyetra-8, I guess. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

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Post by dopefiend » Thu May 04, 2017 2:50 pm

phutureboy wrote:
PYJAMAGROOVE wrote:As a CS80 owner I must admit that some of the presents sound extremely close.
As a CS-80 owner I'd say this sounds closer to the real thing than those videos :
[video][/video]
Damn, you're right! That's pretty close to the original article.... :yay:
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Post by gosh » Thu May 04, 2017 2:59 pm

I'm loving this synth, especially the modern nature if it i.e MPE. Seriously tempted but another part of me wonders whether to spend abit more and get a Code 8 for occasional multitimbral duty...and muddled together MPE using 8x the same patches. Aargh, I hate gear choices!

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Post by NS4W » Thu May 04, 2017 3:35 pm

How much will a total DIY version be? Any good estimates?

999$ for the kit + TH parts? + case?

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