Curious as to why Nord Modular 3 doesn't happen

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dang_motu
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Curious as to why Nord Modular 3 doesn't happen

Post by dang_motu » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:13 pm

I remember reading the development for this was quite expensive, from an OS perspective, but then later in the same interview the head of Nord basically admitted that all of their base patches are usually designed from an expanded version of what the modular used back in the day.

I realize that modular is niche, but hasn't it's popularity grown exponentially lately? I mean the same folks who bought Nord Drum would probably fork over for some form of digi-modular with hands on interface. I don't see how, if things continue, Nord can ignore this market segment.

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Post by shamann » Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:34 pm

I'd guess it's probably pretty easy for them to ignore. Clavia seems to have a pretty comfortable business established elsewhere.

You'd have to figure that maintaining/updating/troubleshooting the software, and keeping it in a user-friendly form, is also a major part of the cost of the product. As well as the support/complaint headaches that future improvements to the hardware cause among the user base year in, year out. And I'd be surprised if it sold as well as the Nord Drum.

That said, the Softube Console 1 strikes me as an excellent example of how this kind of thing could work today. Given they also have that eurorack-inspired modular software, I would offer that they might be the likeliest company to produce something in this realm.

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Post by suboptimal » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:04 pm

The story goes that the G2 almost sank the company, so I expect their shareholders wouldn't be too keen without a very clear sign that the market will sustain it.

Plenty of people on this forum would buy a G3, especially if it had analog I/O. Not sure that's their market, though. Guitar Center is more their thing.

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Post by CF3 » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:19 pm

viewtopic.php?t=145535&highlight=

It's been discussed at great length many times here and elsewhere.
suboptimal hit the nail on the head: they just about went bankrupt over the G2. The amount of effort they have to put into it versus what they'll get back monetarily probably isn't worth it......otherwise I suspect they'd be doing it right this minute.

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Post by dang_motu » Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:42 pm

suboptimal wrote:The story goes that the G2 almost sank the company, so I expect their shareholders wouldn't be too keen without a very clear sign that the market will sustain it.
Ah, okay, I can see what that might shadow any movement towards modular.

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Re: Curious as to why Nord Modular 3 doesn't happen

Post by felix » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:24 pm

dang_motu wrote:I realize that modular is niche, but hasn't it's popularity grown exponentially lately? I mean the same folks who bought Nord Drum would probably fork over for some form of digi-modular with hands on interface. I don't see how, if things continue, Nord can ignore this market segment.
It has definitely grown exponentially, year after year, but it still doesn't even come close to the size of the market for pianos/keyboards.
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Post by gentle_attack » Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:40 pm

It would be very very cool if they did, but even let's say $2000 msrp, how many people do you know that would buy something that's whole selling point is how complicated it is/ can be? 2k seems really low considering what 2k gets you at Guitar Center...

If you are a sound designer, of course it would be amazing, but I don't think (nobody shoot me) "people in bands" in 2017 would use or even try something like that.
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Post by adnauseam » Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:43 am

Get an Axoloti - Save $1500 USD, join a community of other programmers, noodlers and musicians working with open source hardware and software, and put your dreams of a Nord Modular 3 behind you!

:banana: :bananaguitar: :nana:
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Post by peripatitis » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:40 am

they are putting all of their focus on bontempi products...

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:56 pm

CF3 wrote:It's been discussed at great length many times here and elsewhere.
My guy inside Nord told me they have a dedicated employee signed up in this forum and every time someone makes a thread asking why a G3 isn't at the works they postpone the design for a year.

True story! :razz:
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Post by wavecircle » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:01 pm

The boom in modular has been large, but I think lots of this is down to the collector mentality. With the Nord Modular all you have is that system and you have to sit down and learn it and make music with what you have in front of you. Without wanting to sound harsh, I don't think this appeals to many modular owners. It is the hardware tactility which has caused the boom, people wanting to get away from screens.
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Post by evilspock » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:17 pm

Clavia A.D. 2017 is not Clavia A.D. 1999, sadly. They found a business model that is working for them and you gotta respect that.

At this point, I think we should just be grateful that they still have the Nord Drum 2, even though the lack of individual outs was a design fail.

Spoken by owner of 2 Micro Modulars.

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Post by drumsofd00m » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:53 pm

wavecircle wrote:The boom in modular has been large, but I think lots of this is down to the collector mentality. With the Nord Modular all you have is that system and you have to sit down and learn it and make music with what you have in front of you. Without wanting to sound harsh, I don't think this appeals to many modular owners. (...)
This sounds like a very reasonable observation, I'm inclined to agree from what I've seen.

I'm a big fan of a certain software modular that's no longer being developed. It offered lots of the now fashionable east coast functionality along with everything more traditional and beyond - some of it 19 years ago already. And the interface was reasonably musical, too, not something academic. I wonder if the maker could have sold more of it over the years if he hadn't added all of that in a few large chunks but had let the updates trickle slowly over the years, and/ or offered different "module packs" for purchase in parallel.

That's cynical, but humans crave suspense, surprise, excitement and get bored quickly. Big markets need to acknowledge that. In fields where people are used to decade-long perfection of their personal abilities, as in mastering real instruments for professional use, the mindsets are different and other factors dominate, but modular today *is* about fleetingness, "tearing it down and starting from scratch", listening to drone and self generating patches more than teaching one's body methods of expression, etc, and all that is directly mirrored by the buying behaviour: "Give me new input".

I'd buy a G3 immediately, but then I'm also a boring guy who has stuck to the same hardware modular brand for years.

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Post by peripatitis » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:41 pm

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
CF3 wrote:It's been discussed at great length many times here and elsewhere.
My guy inside Nord told me they have a dedicated employee signed up in this forum and every time someone makes a thread asking why a G3 isn't at the works they postpone the design for a year.

True story! :razz:
hahahahah

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Post by felix » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:58 pm

wavecircle wrote:The boom in modular has been large, but I think lots of this is down to the collector mentality. With the Nord Modular all you have is that system and you have to sit down and learn it and make music with what you have in front of you. Without wanting to sound harsh, I don't think this appeals to many modular owners. It is the hardware tactility which has caused the boom, people wanting to get away from screens.
As a former G2 owner, it's what actually launched me into hardware modulars. I thoroughly enjoyed most things about the G2 except having to patch with a mouse. This completely killed it for me. Working on a computer all day and then patching on a computer at night was killing my wrists. Being able to map knobs to the panel was nice, but hardly a replacement for the real thing.

Every once in a while I feel like it could be cool to still have, but then I remember the mouse. THE MOUUUUSSE. :ripbanana:

For me, the collection mentality didn't factor in at all. When I got in euro there was just Doepfer, Analog Systems (and Solutions), Livewire and Plan B. If anything the collection mentality is what periodically makes me think I shouldn't have sold the G2... just to still have it. I know I wouldn't really use it.
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Post by Johnisfaster » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:15 pm

I really doubt they ever will again but it better be euro patchable or GTFO.
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Post by abruzzi » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:21 pm

Just a small point. I LOVE my G1 (and the micro I have as well.) and will never get rid of it. But I have a workflow and approach that seems uncommon these days. There are three parts of music making that for me almost never happen concurrently: composition, sound design, and performance. The NM works great for that kind of division of labor. I have composing with a computer so the whole build your module on the computer, load it onto the synth and unplug works the way I do.

Today many people, and I suspect most modular people, merge those three steps into one. Plugging modules, and tweaking is a live performance with compositional and sound design side to it. The NM isn't that well adapted to that approach. First, sound design involves building your instrument, module by module. That requires interaction with a PC, and if that process is part of your compositional process and your live performance, then what extra does have a keyboard to download the model to give you? Why not just use software? If you unplug and play, you only have very limited access to modifying sound. You cant repatch, and you are limited to 18 knobs that you have pre linked to knobs on the virtual modules. And if you are doing the generative kinds of modular stuff, again you need the PC connected because you'l likely be changing sequence modules, or at least adjusting their programmed notes.

Anyway, I look at that and think that many modular owners today, wouldn't get into it that much. To me the best part is I can build a patch, and unlike most real modulars, I can play it polyphonically, but then I am a composer and performer in the traditional way. I write my music down on paper, and play the instruments into a DAW to record parts, and works great with a NM.

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Post by wavecircle » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:26 am

felix wrote:
wavecircle wrote:The boom in modular has been large, but I think lots of this is down to the collector mentality. With the Nord Modular all you have is that system and you have to sit down and learn it and make music with what you have in front of you. Without wanting to sound harsh, I don't think this appeals to many modular owners. It is the hardware tactility which has caused the boom, people wanting to get away from screens.
As a former G2 owner, it's what actually launched me into hardware modulars. I thoroughly enjoyed most things about the G2 except having to patch with a mouse. This completely killed it for me. Working on a computer all day and then patching on a computer at night was killing my wrists. Being able to map knobs to the panel was nice, but hardly a replacement for the real thing.

Every once in a while I feel like it could be cool to still have, but then I remember the mouse. THE MOUUUUSSE. :ripbanana:

For me, the collection mentality didn't factor in at all. When I got in euro there was just Doepfer, Analog Systems (and Solutions), Livewire and Plan B. If anything the collection mentality is what periodically makes me think I shouldn't have sold the G2... just to still have it. I know I wouldn't really use it.
Me too, I still have both my Nords and would never part with them. It's the same reason I would rather have 2 panels of Serge or Buchla than a Euro, the urge to change creeps in too much. I never feel a sense of mastery when I own a Euro system. I think many owners, some with perhaps too much disposable income enjoy this aspect of the Euro system, there is nothing wrong with collecting stuff. I just prefer to see my knowledge and skill level increase over time.
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Post by geremyf » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:39 pm

I heard they were going to do it but where disappointed with Benjamin Brunn's last couple albums so it got canceled.

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Post by CF3 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:02 pm

wavecircle wrote:I never feel a sense of mastery when I own a Euro system. I think many owners, some with perhaps too much disposable income enjoy this aspect of the Euro system, there is nothing wrong with collecting stuff. I just prefer to see my knowledge and skill level increase over time.
:lol: How much do Serge panels cost again? Believe me I've seen PLENTY of Serge/Buchla "collectors" around these parts. I can think of 3 studios I've seen recently with Serge panels collecting dust in a corner. Keep the generalizations to a minimum.

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Post by GovernorSilver » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:33 pm

felix wrote: I thoroughly enjoyed most things about the G2 except having to patch with a mouse.
Same for me.

I heard that there were some apps I could try to turn my iPad into a multi-touch monitor for my desktop computer, and thus patch G2 stuff that way but I haven't looked into this idea much.

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Post by Johnisfaster » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:57 pm

GovernorSilver wrote:
felix wrote: I thoroughly enjoyed most things about the G2 except having to patch with a mouse.
Same for me.

I heard that there were some apps I could try to turn my iPad into a multi-touch monitor for my desktop computer, and thus patch G2 stuff that way but I haven't looked into this idea much.
Id be really surprised if patched with touch worked very well. Whenever I try to touch things that are relatively small I end up trying to find just the right spot over and over. Tap tap tap tap. In ableton I can easily tap in midi notes but resizing notes just doesn't work well.
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Post by wavecircle » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:02 am

CF3 wrote:
wavecircle wrote:I never feel a sense of mastery when I own a Euro system. I think many owners, some with perhaps too much disposable income enjoy this aspect of the Euro system, there is nothing wrong with collecting stuff. I just prefer to see my knowledge and skill level increase over time.
:lol: How much do Serge panels cost again? Believe me I've seen PLENTY of Serge/Buchla "collectors" around these parts. I can think of 3 studios I've seen recently with Serge panels collecting dust in a corner. Keep the generalizations to a minimum.
Less than 6u of Euro if you buy 2nd hand or DIY.

I know there are buchla and serge collectors but nowhere near the scale of Euro, the temptation to chop and change is far greater in euro. I'm not criticising it, just for me it means my system is never settled. I like small systems and I am not rich so my hand is forced in some ways. Again, this is the reason I like fixed systems like the nords, 2/3 panels of Serge or 18u of buchla. I can stay very disciplined within those confines and force myself to learn more about the system. If I had a problem in Euro I would generally solve it by buying more stuff.
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Post by GovernorSilver » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:18 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:
GovernorSilver wrote:
felix wrote: I thoroughly enjoyed most things about the G2 except having to patch with a mouse.
Same for me.

I heard that there were some apps I could try to turn my iPad into a multi-touch monitor for my desktop computer, and thus patch G2 stuff that way but I haven't looked into this idea much.
Id be really surprised if patched with touch worked very well. Whenever I try to touch things that are relatively small I end up trying to find just the right spot over and over. Tap tap tap tap. In ableton I can easily tap in midi notes but resizing notes just doesn't work well.
If I ever get around to messing with Air Display, Duet Display, or Screens on iPad - to of course interact with G2 Editor - I'll post a report. Probably on a separate thread.

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Post by Clive » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:33 pm

felix wrote:As a former G2 owner, it's what actually launched me into hardware modulars. I thoroughly enjoyed most things about the G2 except having to patch with a mouse. This completely killed it for me. Working on a computer all day and then patching on a computer at night was killing my wrists. Being able to map knobs to the panel was nice, but hardly a replacement for the real thing.
:hihi: This is fast becoming the most quoted post in the thread, but ...

I think it's a matter of perspective and application -

I came to the NM1/G2 after using a 'real' modular. Yes, the mouse can be a real pain but I think the benefits make up for this.

Two main things do it for me: the ability to play things polyphonically and the fact that when the patch is 'done' I can concentrate on playing it. The third is the portability and the joy of being able to press a button to jump to my next idea - important if you play live.

For me it's been a total revelation and liberation ... despite the mouse. :ripbanana:

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