processing a moog voyager to get more model d sound

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syzygywell
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Post by syzygywell » Mon Sep 21, 2015 11:29 pm

I caught that when you posted earlier and this may be a moot point as you had stated that overdriving the input isn't the same as using the WAVE CV in but I guess my question is this: when MOOG posted that one shouldn't run the cable from the headphone output was that only a ts cable or both ts/trs because I understood that to be either type. I ask this just out of curiosity if you know.

I will be trying the trs cable from the headphone to the wave cv in when I get back into my studio this week.
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mousegarden
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Post by mousegarden » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:26 am

I think that the Voyager was a compromise too far, not having knobs that give real time control and reflect the actual knob settings like on an all analogue synth is the reason I sold my Voyager, such a dissapontment, and I never got used to it. Great sound, didn't have a problem with that, but those knobs...how Moog thought that that was acceptable I'll never know.

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kipervarg
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Re: processing a moog voyager to get more model d sound

Post by kipervarg » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:34 am

smitty.west wrote:so a couple of cool synths came up for sale locally at some pretty great prices.
one was a moog source (near mint w/ new battery) @ $1300 and the other was a mint voyager @ $1500. i was 100% set on the source as it got a more raw and in-your-face vintage sound that i found closer to my friends model d which is the source of all my moog lust, but then i thought about it and decided to go for the voyager, which is priced especially well i think. i pick it up thursday evening and while part of is thinking i should of gone with the source purely for tone, the other part is already wondering of ways to get the voyager closer to that famous vintage moog tone. there's this beautiful sizzling (but very pleasant) top end to the minimoog and source that i adore. overall i find it to be a more-- pardon the overused adjective-- organic sounding instrument. i've previously compared my friends model d to his voyager and it was a pretty drastic difference. i'm not saying the voyager's sound is bad-- wouldn't be getting it if that was the case, regardless of price--, but i definitely find the d's closer to my liking. wondering if there's any specific pieces of gear you guys recommend i could process it with to get me closer. read somewhere i can route out to an external oscillator and then back in which might get me closer. any tips/tricks? appreciate any/all feedback! part of the reason i skipped out on the source is also that i plan to track down a studio electronics midimoog/midimini which will give me that classic model d sound. would of gone the original model d route, but afraid of it crapping out- my friends is in the shop more than it is in use.
In short, the Voyager comes close but does not sound like a Model D. I owned one for about 6 months before selling it since it did not give me that vintage tone I was looking for. There is something about the classic minimoog sound that is alive, buzzy, unstable, tempermental and plain wonderful. I got a lot closer with the AJH Synth minimod modules. The Voyager has great CV in/out options and felt like a Cadillac but ultimately I could not get the tones I was looking for out of it. Sold it reluctantly.

I also purchased a Sub37 that I decided to keep even though it did not sound like a Model D. The layout is perfect and paraphonic mode sounds lovely. Only thing missing is CV out, but I am OK with it.

The AJH Synth modules have deflated my desire to get a classic Minimoog. Your mileage may vary.

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J KAY
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Post by J KAY » Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:08 am

Get a STG mixer and run it through the that !
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grenert
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Post by grenert » Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:48 pm

syzygywell wrote: I will be trying the trs cable from the headphone to the wave cv in when I get back into my studio this week.
Anyone know if this is safe to do with the Little/Slim Phatty? Or headphone out to audio in?

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Post by digitalganesha » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:55 am

grenert wrote:
syzygywell wrote: I will be trying the trs cable from the headphone to the wave cv in when I get back into my studio this week.
Anyone know if this is safe to do with the Little/Slim Phatty? Or headphone out to audio in?
I honestly don't know. I imagine the Phatty ins and outs are pretty similar to the Voyager - so again I would try it but only using a TRS cable. The reason I was told to use the TRS cable has something to do with grounding and the headphone out.

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Post by digitalganesha » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:58 am

mousegarden wrote:I think that the Voyager was a compromise too far, not having knobs that give real time control and reflect the actual knob settings like on an all analogue synth is the reason I sold my Voyager, such a dissapontment, and I never got used to it. Great sound, didn't have a problem with that, but those knobs...how Moog thought that that was acceptable I'll never know.
Does the "Old School" still pass the knobs through a digital converter? You raise an intriguing question, because wouldn't there have to be a complete redesign of the board to NOT have the knobs run the same in non-old school version of the Voyager?

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Post by mousegarden » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:48 am

digitalganesha wrote:
mousegarden wrote:I think that the Voyager was a compromise too far, not having knobs that give real time control and reflect the actual knob settings like on an all analogue synth is the reason I sold my Voyager, such a dissapontment, and I never got used to it. Great sound, didn't have a problem with that, but those knobs...how Moog thought that that was acceptable I'll never know.
Does the "Old School" still pass the knobs through a digital converter? You raise an intriguing question, because wouldn't there have to be a complete redesign of the board to NOT have the knobs run the same in non-old school version of the Voyager?
I think you may be right, the Old School has totally analogue knobs, because there's no memory ? Not sure though, it's strange, I sold my Voyager to a well known keyboard player who wanted the benefits of memory recall for live use, that's where the Voyager scores, and of course, it's reliable. An Old School Voyage is more akin to the original, but you've lost it's main selling point, the memory. I'd rather get an original Mini in that case, I know it's extra money, but they are worth it, nothing sounds like them, it's not until you actually play one you realise how unique they are.

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ndkent
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Post by ndkent » Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:07 am

Yes, the run the (generally headphone) output back into the external in is a good one for almost any synth. Though it's worth pointing out that it was a not exactly secret trick on the original Mini. So if you think about it, if the results are more exciting on a non-Mini, imagine on the real deal. And yes, some companies are now building it into the hardware

Rather than wonder it's worth simply explaining the jack situation. Generally people use stereo headphones with a tip-ring-sleeve phone connector plug. It's left channel for the tip, right channel for the ring and ground for the sleeve. Even though the instrument is mono out, if the headphone jack was mono then you'd only hear things in the left ear and complain. So you get the same out on the tip and and ring. The trouble with a mono plug in there is that it shorts the hot ring signal to the ground which is not a good thing.

I personally love using a TRS to 2 obviously mono connectors adapter cable for these sorts of situations. What I mean by obvious is you could have a TRS going to 2 female jacks you can't see the connectors for. That would be to share a stereo signal. You DON'T want that. You want a TRS to a right and left. Then you simply use one of them.

Just personal opinion, yes the Source has a relatively simple funky sound right out of the box but really (some of those deeper menu parameters aside) people complaining about the Voyager with a full set of knobs to the single knob source as an option for the original poster is a bit much.

Not a total solution, but a possible further way to augment the sound would be to process through a CP3 clone moog mixer module. There are a couple out there. I have a STG .mix -- past about 12 o'clock the input audio starts to be soft clipped. Sure you could go further though the Minimoog is one of those things where some people just something generally reminiscent is enough to please while others there is a huge gulf between sounding moog-like and the mini sound they are taken by.

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Post by wsy » Wed Sep 23, 2015 5:33 am

digitalganesha wrote:
mousegarden wrote:I think that the Voyager was a compromise too far, not having knobs that give real time control and reflect the actual knob settings like on an all analogue synth is the reason I sold my Voyager, such a dissapontment, and I never got used to it. Great sound, didn't have a problem with that, but those knobs...how Moog thought that that was acceptable I'll never know.
Does the "Old School" still pass the knobs through a digital converter? You raise an intriguing question, because wouldn't there have to be a complete redesign of the board to NOT have the knobs run the same in non-old school version of the Voyager?
Not necessarily.

Suppose I had twenty CV knobs (ok, some of them are simple 0 to +5 volt pots, and some are 0 to some "hot signal" - it doesn't
matter.) If those "hot-side-signal" pots bother you, put an LM13900-based VCA on the other end and since the bandwidth of a knob is
so low, you'll never notice it.

Then, from the many-knobs front panel, I run twenty wires (plus however many wires I need for the hot signals if I don't want
intermediate VCAs). I put those on a 20-pin connector.

From the actual analog-path board, I run another 20 wires into the matching 20-pin connector. Now my analog voice board works just fine.

But I can disconnect the plug in the middle and put a pair of A/D and D/A's in there and (assuming my software and system architecture
can keep up the bandwidth) I can mimic the knobby all-analog (Old School) just fine. But I can also have my software _not_ echo the knobs
onto the analog voice board exactly - I can do other magic, just as the Performer Voyagers do (like the pot mapping, and
putting the XYAG touchpad somewhere by software command.)

So, it aint _necessarily_ the case that the Old School uses different boards; proper choice of connectors can pretty much cover it. :-)

[[ heck, on thinking about it, I might even try to save some $$$ by running just one analog wire and a few digital bits of muxing signal.
Or not.... it makes the analog boards more difficult but it makes the digital board much simpler.
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freeyerheel
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Post by freeyerheel » Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:49 pm

ive been using a mono plug hope i havent fried anything, but my favorite thing to run my old school through is the doepfer 137-1 wave multiplier it seems to give it all kinds of goodness from suttle to extreme, if you have one give it a shoot

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Post by modularrydavid » Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:34 am

Interesting tips. SP was impossible to get to sound "old" …I ditched mine. I think there are elements of the "old" sound that aren't rich at all, more nasal, and that need to be the focus.

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