Complex sequences using Moon 569 what else is essential ?

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Analog Music
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Complex sequences using Moon 569 what else is essential ?

Post by Analog Music » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:44 pm

" Just when I thought I was out , they pull me back end "

Noob Alert !

Ok 5U is pulling me back in from eurorack , must be the gravity of the large interface and JLR videos :yay:

I want to build complex sequences (polyrhythms ) using Moon Modular 569 ,
what other modules are essential in doing this ?

I think JLR had mentioned 563 , 568 why , what can they add ?

I want to be able to run each sequence in different time signature simultaneously , thats very important to me to help create polyrhythms
( reverse is cool to ) .

I'm thinking 568 into 569 may be the way to go but what about quantizes , expanders , clock divider , delay etc... ?

This post is really all about sequencing not VCO VCF etc..

I know this modular approch can grow and keep growing but I can add other modules later , so for now I'm looking for the essentials for a good start and have lots of fun with the 569 .

Thanks for your help

Image

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:37 pm

:sb: All you really need is the 569! :tu: But additional modules make some things easier and other things actually possible, in particular a multi-output clock divider and an external clock.

I need to go eat my dinner but I can expand on this more later, if others fon't beat me to it first. 8_)

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:32 am

Here is some info on how I did the first two videos in my M569 Control Yourself series:

http://www.modulargrid.net/d/patches/view/4409

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Post by Analog Music » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:05 am

JohnLRice wrote::sb: All you really need is the 569! :tu: But additional modules make some things easier and other things actually possible, in particular a multi-output clock divider and an external clock.
Hmm Why use external clock when one is built in ?
( sorry for the noob questions )

Is this a good external clock ?
Image

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:05 pm

Analog Music wrote:Why use external clock when one is built in ?
Partially because the built in clock has a somewhat limited range but mainly for convenience and flexibility. If you use the internal 569 clock and need to clock other devices in synchronization, you'll be restricted to using the gate outputs of the 569. This can work great but sometimes you may want to have the other devices run faster or slower than the main sequencer and using an external clock along with a clock divider makes this easy.

That ACME-4 looks impressive and might work but I was thinking more along the lines of modules. You can use just a regular VCO (preferably with a square or pulse output) as a master clock.

I have the Modcan 53B clock which I use most of the time as a master clock, it's great! It also has a second output that is a division of the first, which is perfect if I only need two different clock rates.
Image

If I need more than two divisions I usually use the 53B clock into the Moon 554 divider first:
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I also have the Synth Tech MOTM-730 which is cool in its own way 8_) (picture by Richard Brewster)
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Leverkusen
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Post by Leverkusen » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:31 pm

As I am still a format mixer I go with pamelas workout, which has settled in my shared system. Silly name but very useful and intuitive to work with - even through its menus. You have 8 clock-outs and can adjust nearly everything, gatelength, delay....

What I find very usefull for polyrhythms, too, is to just skip steps and create uneven sequences.

Of course you can use this one, too:

Image

...uh, that's big - sorry!
:hail:

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kindredlost
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Post by kindredlost » Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:37 pm

Trigger sequencers like the 568 or 563 are useful for creating rests.

Other clocks are good for the swing time or staggar-step sequencing.

I don't own a 569 but I do have the 563 which I use all the time. The 554 quad clock divider is very useful too. Like most here I usually use a dedicated clock at a fast rate and divide down from there for pitch voltage sequencers etc..

The SSL Tap Tempo LFO is a nice clock source as are some of the others mentioned here. That ACME and the COTK time generators look very nice. :love:

Some fun stuff can be done with the reset and skip functions if you have a second sequencer or even a random gate generator. The 4MS RCD and SCM modules are especially musical for very cool divisions and multiplications of the beat. You can get these in kit form and make your own 5U panel. Of course you already know this coming from the Euro Dark Side. :jedi:

I use a Turing Machine to generate either random or repeating reset and skip functions.

So to answer the question, no you don't need anything else to get polyrhythm from a 569 but it helps to have other sequencers to turn it away from being fairly static.

Nice selection BTW.

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Post by Analog Music » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:38 pm

Leverkusen wrote:
Image

...uh, that's big - sorry!
:hail:
WOW ! I wonder if it's as good as it looks ?

Any experience with it ?

One thing I need also is to send swing/shuffle , can the Euclidean Bi-Clock Sequencer do that ?

Man this looks amazing but how good is it ?
Last edited by Analog Music on Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Analog Music » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:44 pm

kindredlost wrote: So to answer the question, no you don't need anything else to get polyrhythm from a 569 but it helps to have other sequencers to turn it away from being fairly static.

Nice selection BTW.
Man great info there ! Thanks
What a great forum .

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Post by xerxl » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:33 pm

Sorry, I'm a bit dense here. On that 569 I don't see four clock inputs that would allow you to run the four sequences at different clock divisions?

Cheers

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kindredlost
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Post by kindredlost » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:44 pm

use the shift inputs

xerxl
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Post by xerxl » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:50 pm

Thanks!!!

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Post by Analog Music » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:29 am

kindredlost wrote: Other clocks are good for the swing time or staggar-step sequencing.
.
What clocks for 5U are good for swing , shuffle ?

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:41 am

Analog Music wrote:
kindredlost wrote: Other clocks are good for the swing time or staggar-step sequencing.
.
What clocks for 5U are good for swing , shuffle ?
:hmm: Clocks that are hip and like to party? :party: :hihi:

Seriously, standard clocks put out steady even pulses. To get uneven pulses you can do it several ways. One is to use two different clock rates (from a multi-output divider or multi-row trigger sequencer) into a Boolean logic module. Or you can more simply set up the Moon 568 or COTK C969 or similar to produce pretty much any type of repeating feel.

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Post by Analog Music » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:00 am

JohnLRice wrote:
Analog Music wrote:
kindredlost wrote: Other clocks are good for the swing time or staggar-step sequencing.
.
What clocks for 5U are good for swing , shuffle ?
:hmm: Clocks that are hip and like to party? :party: :hihi:
Excellent :lol:

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Post by Analog Music » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:17 pm

I was thinking about running the 569 sequencer with 4 Moog Slim Phattys by CV .
The Moog Slim Phatty has cv input for Volume , filter , pitch and Gate .

1st , will this work , is it even possible ?
2nd , good idea or bad ?
What do you think ?

Image

Thanks

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:51 pm

If you already have 4 Slim Phatty's :eek: :hyper: I think that would be a fantastic sounding setup with the 569! (have you seen Moon's desktop cases?)

You might check around first about the Moog's tracking accuracy though. I remember reading something about them not being really accurate with the CV input, but I can't remember if that was just early Voyagers or other models etc. :hmm:

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Post by Analog Music » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:06 am

JohnLRice wrote:If you already have 4 Slim Phatty's :eek: :hyper: I think that would be a fantastic sounding setup with the 569! (have you seen Moon's desktop cases?)

You might check around first about the Moog's tracking accuracy though. I remember reading something about them not being really accurate with the CV input, but I can't remember if that was just early Voyagers or other models etc. :hmm:
Thanks JLR , No I don't have them yet but was thinking about getting 4
Little Phatty's to be sequence by Moon 568 into 569 .
Wasn't sure if it was possible but now I know it is .

No I haven't seen the desktop case but sounds like a good idea.
Yea I'm gonna check on Moog's CV input to make sure it works .

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:20 am

I was really impressed with the sound of the SubPhatty and the new Sub37 looks to be even cooler! And reason you are wanting to go with the Slim?

You can download a copy of the new Moon Modular catalog in PDF and see the desktop cases.
http://www.lunar-experience.com/DOWN/MoonKat2014.pdf

Here is a link to the Moog forum in case you don't know about it. It's not as active as Muff's and mainly focused on Moog products but they are nice helpful folks too! :tu:
http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewforum.php?f=12

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Post by Analog Music » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:56 am

Thanks for the Links :tu:
Last edited by Analog Music on Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Analog Music » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:51 am

JohnLRice wrote: And reason you are wanting to go with the Slim?
Yea good question , I was just thinking it was a simpler solution
instead of buying separate VCO ,VCF, VCA etc.. x 4 .
I just figured with the Slim Phatty I would get all of those modules in one unit plus I could get that Moog sound , patch memory , and they can be poly-chained together to play chords .

Or
maybe I'm way off and missing the point . Thats why I'm here to see what
more experienced people think and the info has been invaluable .

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:02 am

I wasn't realizing that the Slim Phatty rack is relatively inexpensive, under $700. 4 x Slim Phatty plus a Moon 569 might be pretty a interesting setup and cost about $5000 or a little less.

I guess it depends on how you want to work and what you want to do. :hmm: In some ways, I think 4 x Slim Phatty plus a Cirklon sequencer would make more sense and be more powerful . . . . . :hide:

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Post by Analog Music » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:23 am

JohnLRice wrote::hmm: In some ways, I think 4 x Slim Phatty plus a Cirklon sequencer would make more sense and be more powerful . . . . . :hide:
Hmm Why Cirklon sequencer what can it do that the 869 can't ?

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:37 am

Analog Music wrote:
JohnLRice wrote::hmm: In some ways, I think 4 x Slim Phatty plus a Cirklon sequencer would make more sense and be more powerful . . . . . :hide:
Hmm Why Cirklon sequencer what can it do that the 569 can't ?
Well, they are totally different sequencers and working with them is totally different. The cost is close to the same though.

If you want real time step sequencing fun without having to think hard, the 569 is the way to go IMHO! :tu:

But if you want more channels of CV and gate, longer and/or more complex sequences, sequence and patch memory, MIDI control, etc etc and some menu diving isn't a problem, the Cirklon might be a better choice.
http://www.sequentix.com/cirklon.htm

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Post by Analog Music » Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:33 pm

JohnLRice wrote: If you want real time step sequencing fun without having to think hard, the 569 is the way to go IMHO! :tu:
This :sb:
I defiantly like the live improve appeal of the 568, 569 .
I feel like I can get more work done this way .
As cool as the Cirklon is ( I want one ) I feel it's taking me back toward the computer style workflow which I was trying to get away from but I don't have any experience with it .

When I look at the 568 and 569 it reminds me of starting with
a blank canvas so you can paint freely or make music .

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