Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Discussing some incredible modules that don't quite fit into the other forum categories.

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tojpeters
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Post by tojpeters » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:11 am

Don’t forget RS and loudest warning sales put money into Serge’s pocket
STS refuses to pay royalties

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Post by chiavere » Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:26 am

chiavere wrote: FYI, longtime Serge guru Doug Lynner has a bunch of tutorials on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/mlwebworks
Pahat Kengat wrote:I've watched several of these videos! Really great and informative videos. 8-)
Cool - just making sure you knew about 'em! :bananallama:

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Post by Pahat_Kengat » Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:07 pm

tojpeters wrote:Don’t forget RS and loudest warning sales put money into Serge’s pocket
STS refuses to pay royalties
Yeah, my original list of reasons why I was leaning towards R*S included both companies' praxes in this regard. I was aware R*S was working in direct co-operation with Serge himself, but didn't know LW is also legit in this sense. Nice!

Thanks again everyone who has replied to this topic. You've all been very helpful in gathering information and I appreciate it very much. 8-)

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Post by syncretism » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:22 pm

I'd say that I prefer the spec of an Animus (DC-coupled mixers and primitive ring modulators) to the La Bestia 2 - I'd rather have the PCO than the variable slope filter, but the Bestia sounds great, I like those balanced outs, and the price difference is pretty significant. Even with a relatively "complete" solution like these panels, you're going to want more. You'll always want more until you hit some sort of sweet spot. And since you're gonna need more... I say start with the LBii or a custom LW panel and pocket your savings for the next panel ;)

Just my two bits!

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Post by Pahat_Kengat » Thu Jan 03, 2019 6:46 am

syncretism wrote:I'd say that I prefer the spec of an Animus (DC-coupled mixers and primitive ring modulators) to the La Bestia 2 - I'd rather have the PCO than the variable slope filter, but the Bestia sounds great, I like those balanced outs, and the price difference is pretty significant. Even with a relatively "complete" solution like these panels, you're going to want more. You'll always want more until you hit some sort of sweet spot. And since you're gonna need more... I say start with the LBii or a custom LW panel and pocket your savings for the next panel ;)

Just my two bits!
Currently my plan is to go for a custom LW panel based on the Animal with two oscillators and a ring modulator. 8-) 8-)

I'm still sitting on the fence on what kind of oscillators to go for, as the Buchla 258s on LW's panels fascinate me, but so do Serge's own oscillators. :cry:

And just as I was typing this message I got a response from LW on my price inquiry. :mrgreen:

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Post by evilspock » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:13 pm

Great thread here, cheers to all insights so far. I have an R*S Edelweiss II and zthee 73-75 DIY panels. Would anyone care to voice an opinion on which kind of panel you would complement these with? My intention was to get the La Bestia II but I didn’t even really know much about what all LW had going on, so I didn’t realize other good options were available.

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Post by fonik » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:17 am

Besides all the reasons and arguments that already have been made I want to add one more: at R*S we tried to improve the performance of the modules and you will hear that. If it is the zero residual resonance on a filter, balanced outs on a mixer, sharp transients on the slopes, the tracking and temp compensation of the DUSG, I personally believe that currently the R*S modules the most advanced ones you could get (but maybe I am biased, hehe).
When it comes to the actual panel and the combination of the modules there are several options once you know what you want or need. Even if you think the La Bestia II is not the one, you could have your own personal combination with either the R*S 4x4 modules or committing a custom job to LW.
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Post by wavecircle » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:48 am

fonik wrote:Besides all the reasons and arguments that already have been made I want to add one more: at R*S we tried to improve the performance of the modules and you will hear that. If it is the zero residual resonance on a filter, balanced outs on a mixer, sharp transients on the slopes, the tracking and temp compensation of the DUSG, I personally believe that currently the R*S modules the most advanced ones you could get (but maybe I am biased, hehe).
When it comes to the actual panel and the combination of the modules there are several options once you know what you want or need. Even if you think the La Bestia II is not the one, you could have your own personal combination with either the R*S 4x4 modules or committing a custom job to LW.
Very true, my system is LW but lots of the electronics are R*S. This is the first time since STS stopped doing custom work that you can really have whatever you want on a Serge panel, often with extra mods...
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Post by magneticweb » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:06 pm

I had an STS Animal and an Animate panel and they were absolutely incredible. I have a custom R*S system made by Patch Point that I think is the greatest system I've ever had, and it's incredible. Build quality is as good as the STS wares I had. I honestly don't think the STS stuff (sans unavailable modules in the R*S line) warrant the price. Not sure if it was a gatekeepers fee at STS monopolizing the circuits but I don't feel like I have a lower quality system from R*S because it was less expensive. With the 4x4 modules I feel as if I have more options, especially as the line grows over time. Lots to look forward to with Serge back in mix!

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Post by Prunesquallor » Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:41 am

wavecircle wrote:My system is LW but lots of the electronics are R*S.
Interesting! I'd love to have all my Serge in one format. Did you make the panels yourself?
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Post by wavecircle » Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:41 am

Prunesquallor wrote:
wavecircle wrote:My system is LW but lots of the electronics are R*S.
Interesting! I'd love to have all my Serge in one format. Did you make the panels yourself?
All built by LW, quite a lengthy spec and modification process before that though.
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Post by Prunesquallor » Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:07 am

wavecircle wrote:
Prunesquallor wrote:
wavecircle wrote:My system is LW but lots of the electronics are R*S.
Interesting! I'd love to have all my Serge in one format. Did you make the panels yourself?
All built by LW, quite a lengthy spec and modification process before that though.
Nice! Food for thought.
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Post by user129 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:45 am

Jesus the LW stuff is beautiful.

Does anyone know if things like the pco and uap that I've seen on some of these panels are just repanels of STS boards, or are these schematics somewhere I haven't seen?

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Post by cygmu » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:51 am

user129 wrote:Jesus the LW stuff is beautiful.

Does anyone know if things like the pco and uap that I've seen on some of these panels are just repanels of STS boards, or are these schematics somewhere I haven't seen?
Bit of both I think.

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Post by wavecircle » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:07 pm

user129 wrote:Jesus the LW stuff is beautiful.

Does anyone know if things like the pco and uap that I've seen on some of these panels are just repanels of STS boards, or are these schematics somewhere I haven't seen?
Charlie can pretty much get hold of most things. My UAP is not an STS rehouse. I think it might have come from Zthee...
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Post by Prunesquallor » Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:33 am

user129 wrote:Does anyone know if things like the pco and uap that I've seen on some of these panels are just repanels of STS boards, or are these schematics somewhere I haven't seen?
Are those boards available outside of STS? Even if they were, I'm guessing they would be prohibitively expensive, given what Rex charges for the final product. Hmm...
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Post by The Junglechrist » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:36 am

I recently got a built Mantra panel from Random*Source and I can attest of the very good quality of the product.


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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by Corrupt » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:09 am

Now have two variable slope filters in my system. One from STS and one in a La Bestia, built by Patch Point with vintage op amps IIRC. The RS one is substantially quieter in its output. With a gain boost, the tone and behavior is as close as you could want, but without it, there’s a bit of brute force missing.

Wondering if anyone else has experienced this?

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by Ossicle » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:04 am

Corrupt wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:09 am
Now have two variable slope filters in my system. One from STS and one in a La Bestia, built by Patch Point with vintage op amps IIRC. The RS one is substantially quieter in its output. With a gain boost, the tone and behavior is as close as you could want, but without it, there’s a bit of brute force missing.

Wondering if anyone else has experienced this?
Cannot contribute here due to little first hand experience, but I find this extremely interesting. 'Brute force' may be the main reason I find the overall sonics of the STS more attractive than R*S. I have also suspected that this 'forceful' tonal character of the STS could be largely because of internal gain boost and some overdrive happening in the STS...? If R*S can get close to this with simple gain boosts (e.g. the WM top section has this I think) that would be great & there would be much less reason for hunting those expensive STS panels.

Would love some more info on this.

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by the bad producer » Thu Jan 23, 2020 4:43 am

The *RS* version is really 'the same but different' - it uses THAT VCA's not the Serge gain cells that STS uses. Swapping out the gain cells is like replacing the V8 in a '69 Mustang for a new something engine, sure it is an 'improvement' but in what way? (I don't actually know anything about cars, so I don't know what to compare in terms of new engines :hihi: )

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by Ossicle » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:46 am

That makes sense. Not saying it is necessarily the case with R*S (what do I know) but it wouldn't be the first time that the aim to improve something technically results in weakening its musicality. Engineer vs. musical mind and all that.

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by FatRocky » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:35 am

i love my multicoloured : LW,STS,R*S,Scrotum Lab,Metasonix system they work beautifully together.

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by Scories » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:50 am

STS : It's probably easier to find some used models at a decent price. The Animal is powerful, but I'd recommend the Creature/Audio Interface setup if you can live without a waveshaper. Having a ResEQ and DUSG (over regular oscillators) makes it even more fun and flexible than the Animal in my humble opinion. Plus an extra VCA/comparator, plus a preamp detector... You really get the LEGO block experience of a Serge modular in a small setup.

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by levelhead3 » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:55 am

Scories wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:50 am
STS : It's probably easier to find some used models at a decent price. The Animal is powerful, but I'd recommend the Creature/Audio Interface setup if you can live without a waveshaper. Having a ResEQ and DUSG (over regular oscillators) makes it even more fun and flexible than the Animal in my humble opinion. Plus an extra VCA/comparator, plus a preamp detector... You really get the LEGO block experience of a Serge modular in a small setup.
There is a Creature/Audio Interface on Reverb right now too...

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Re: Baby's first Serge: STS Animal vs. R*S La Bestia II

Post by cebec » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:13 pm

levelhead3 wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:55 am
Scories wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:50 am
STS : It's probably easier to find some used models at a decent price. The Animal is powerful, but I'd recommend the Creature/Audio Interface setup if you can live without a waveshaper. Having a ResEQ and DUSG (over regular oscillators) makes it even more fun and flexible than the Animal in my humble opinion. Plus an extra VCA/comparator, plus a preamp detector... You really get the LEGO block experience of a Serge modular in a small setup.
There is a Creature/Audio Interface on Reverb right now too...
And a Blue Fun Station... :hihi:

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