Arturia applies to trademark "Synthi" and releases

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papz
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Post by papz » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Robin Wood didn't design the Synthi nor invented the names but he aquired the full rights of EMS in 1995 after working for all incarnations continuously since 1970. I hardly can see any ethics issue on his side, in case that's what you insinuate.
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Post by rkilman » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:33 pm

papz wrote:Robin Wood didn't design the Synthi nor invented the names but he aquired the full rights of EMS in 1995 after working for all incarnations continuously since 1970. I hardly can see any ethics issue on his side, in case that's what you insinuate.
Hopefully he has done his due diligence in protecting the rights he acquired.

I just can't imagine what Arturia is thinking.

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Post by tobb » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:34 pm

rkilman wrote:
papz wrote:Robin Wood didn't design the Synthi nor invented the names but he aquired the full rights of EMS in 1995 after working for all incarnations continuously since 1970. I hardly can see any ethics issue on his side, in case that's what you insinuate.
Hopefully he has done his due diligence in protecting the rights he acquired.

I just can't imagine what Arturia is thinking.
yes indeed
Last edited by tobb on Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by papz » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:38 pm

It's a bit more complicated unfortunately.
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Post by tobb » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:42 pm

papz wrote:It's a bit more complicated unfortunately.
Edit, Yes probably

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Post by doepferiano » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:20 am

OH! I'm in DANGER too I've to apply for my BRAND "NYSTHI" !
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Post by papz » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 pm

Indeed, Arturia clearly expressed their will to "enforce the brand and make sure it is not misused", targeting third parties such as for example the "SynthiMuse", a random phrase generator for MIDI instruments, who have registered their name in 2016.

I renamed my new "Synthi Card" for 208 because of this. It will be the "VCS3 Card".
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I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Post by chamomileshark » Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:26 am

I contacted Robin when I originally saw this and got a thank you reply.

Papz you obviously know more - care to share in a PM?
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Post by Blingley » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:37 am

ix wrote:
bad news is it would appear that looking on most forums 98% of gear heads have zero ethics now toward rip off manufacturers and would sell their soul for anything if it was cheap and had 2 x osc and will support the Parasites

I think we live in a very dark age of selfish users personally , parasites and schemers and dominant businesses who really only care about their business profit margin and people seem to love them.,

Behringers just a cult really of cheap consumers with a massive ego maniac running things it would seem , its a bit creepy in all honesty how pathetically
cult follower like people became without question for one minute the ethics.
The horrors of democratization and disenfranchised people groups being allowed to buy instruments. I bet my ass that like 90% of the people complaining about Behringer are white middle or upper middle class people from a first world country that have never gone hungry due to monetary reasons. Even Behringer products cost nearly a month's wage in Serbia, for instance.

Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.

Though yeah, trademarking someone else's thing is next level of scummy. :lol:

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Post by dan_p » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:12 pm

^ :despair:
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Post by nectarios » Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:46 am

tobb wrote:....who invented the 'EMS' brand and the 'Synhi' names?

Robin Wood?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Zinovieff
In 1969, Zinovieff sought financing through an ad in The Times but received only one response, £50 on the mistaken premise it was the price of a synthesiser. Instead he formed EMS with Cockerell and Tristram Cary.[15] At the end of the 1960s, EMS Ltd. was one of four companies offering commercial synthesizers, the others being ARP, Buchla, and Moog.[16]

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Post by 3001 » Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:37 pm

These synths need to be less fetishized and owned by the lucky few. I wish these were in the hands of more creative people like they used to be. The greatest usages of the synthi are probably long in the past due to it being a collector's item. :doh:

Robin Wood's a really nice guy, but can't keep up with the demand. It'd be nice if they weren't just for the synth elitists. If these were more mass produced I think we'd see much more creative music out there. The ms20 mini and brutes and all that really had an impact on the music world with musicians being able to get more creative instead of just going the electribe cheap route. more cheap options more better!!! more inclusivity not exclusivity!!!
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Post by AutomaticGainsay » Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:35 pm

No one really responded with outrage in this forum when someone decried Peter Zinovieff simply because the media used the sort of phrase that the media uses to describe people like him, despite the fact that EMS wouldn't exist at ALL without him.

No one demonstrates this level of moral indignation when anyone in the world makes cheap copies of Don Buchla's work and sells them boldly despite not having any right to do so.

And yet, Arturia pursues a legal avenue in this way, and there is OUTRAGE and MORAL INDIGNATION all over the place.

Wow.
"Now, don't misquote me and say I'm against keyboards. I've been misquoted on that one enough. A keyboard is a useful input structure if what you want is rapid simultaneous access to a large number of sounds of fixed pitch, but it's much less useful for controlling some other aspects of sound."
-DB

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Post by chamomileshark » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:20 am

AutomaticGainsay wrote:
And yet, Arturia pursues a legal avenue in this way, and there is OUTRAGE and MORAL INDIGNATION all over the place.

Wow.
I've lived long enough and have enough corporate experience to get the full facts before hitting the moral indignation button.

As someone commented "It's more complicated than that". I'll leave it that.

For the moment.
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Post by papz » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:59 am

No one registered the Buchla trademark behind Buchla's back.
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I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Post by lisa » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:15 am

papz wrote:No one registered the Buchla trademark behind Buchla's back.
Well, they couldn't since Buchla has been trademarked (since 1966, it seems).

I don't really know what to say about this type of situation. Is Arturia really doing anything wrong? The name Synthi seems to be up for grabs, legally. Why isn't it already registered if anybody cares about it?

BTW, the opposition period runs out in a few days so if anybody wants to fight Arturia on this then it has to happen now.
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Post by papz » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:34 am

Robin Wood didn't register the "Synthi" brand despite the production has never stopped for 50 years. It's Robin's initial mistake, ok, but this doesn't excuse Arturia's move to sneakily take advantage of the situation when they became aware of this.
Arturia registered a competitor's brand for a product still in production behind his back. Isn't that wrong ?
Robin finally decided not to do a legal opposition and went for an "amicable" agreement. Hopefully he won't get scammed again.
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I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Post by lisa » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:43 am

I'm not sure how you'd define "sneakily" but this is how it's done. They filed an application for a trademark in November and it was published in December with a three month opposition period. What would some non-sneaky process look like to you?

Robin could have filed an application right after he took over or in October of 2018. He could also have opposed the registration. I'm guessing he isn't very bothered by any of this as long as Arturia doesn't go after his production?
909, manic trilling courtesy of Make Noise René and DPO, wavetable bass by Disting and some soft melodies by the Korg Minilogue. I mainly sat and watched it all unfold. :eek:


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Post by papz » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:51 am

What would some non-sneaky process look like to you?
Prior consultation and agreement.
Be sure Robin is very bothered by this move.

As said before, this is a bit complicated.
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Post by AutomaticGainsay » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:24 am

papz wrote:No one registered the Buchla trademark behind Buchla's back.
Not for lack of trying, papz.
"Now, don't misquote me and say I'm against keyboards. I've been misquoted on that one enough. A keyboard is a useful input structure if what you want is rapid simultaneous access to a large number of sounds of fixed pitch, but it's much less useful for controlling some other aspects of sound."
-DB

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Post by AutomaticGainsay » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:25 am

papz wrote:Robin finally decided not to do a legal opposition and went for an "amicable" agreement. Hopefully he won't get scammed again.
Then isn't this the end of it?
"Now, don't misquote me and say I'm against keyboards. I've been misquoted on that one enough. A keyboard is a useful input structure if what you want is rapid simultaneous access to a large number of sounds of fixed pitch, but it's much less useful for controlling some other aspects of sound."
-DB

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Post by dan_p » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:25 am

I'm finding it hard to comprehend how anyone can think it isn't at least a little bit out of order to register someone else trademark of a product still in production. And the wigglers citing synthesisers for the masses, starving children and white privilege... Big Lolz
Oh you got a Nickel, I got a Dime,
I'd like to get to know you but I haven't got the time,
You got to walk like a mannequin, roll like a tyre,
Act on reaction dodge the big spud fryer
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Post by papz » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:53 am

AutomaticGainsay wrote:Then isn't this the end of it?
This doesn't make Arturia's move more fair. They should have consulted Robin before doing this instead of registering his brand behind his back hoping he wouldn't notice it, which would have occured if Camomileshark and other people hadn't warned him.

As dan_p wrote "I'm finding it hard to comprehend how anyone can think it isn't at least a little bit out of order to register someone else trademark of a product still in production."
Looks like we're probably naive idealists ? :despair:
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I'm not a synths dealer and I'm not aware of an inexpensive Synthi secret market, please don't ask me if I know one for sale.
I don't offer support of any kind to people attempting to build clones of EMS equipment.

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Post by Graham Hinton » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:58 am

AutomaticGainsay wrote:No one really responded with outrage in this forum when someone decried Peter Zinovieff simply because the media used the sort of phrase that the media uses to describe people like him, despite the fact that EMS wouldn't exist at ALL without him.
The media used the sort of phrase that Zinovieff fed them, he has been a master of playing the media for over 50 years. EMS would not have started without Zinovieff's [then] wife's money, but it is naive to assume that David Cockerell and Tristram Cary would never have done anything for the rest of their lives without that help.

dan_p wrote:I'm finding it hard to comprehend how anyone can think it isn't at least a little bit out of order to register someone else trade mark of a product still in production.
It's a fairly common practise. I know of one person who became a millionaire by registering trade marks of large companies in countries where they were not registered, including "St. Michael" in Spain so when M&S decided to expand there they had to buy their own trade mark back. It was cheaper than reprinting all their packaging. The people who do it are scum like the people who grab domain names and try to sell them to people they apply to. The best thing is to let them waste their money.

There is a difference between a trade mark (TM) and a registered trade mark (R). Since the "Synthi" trade mark has been in continuous use by EMS since 1972 they have prior usage which may invalidate later registration. However trade mark law is different in different countries.

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Post by bwhittington » Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:58 am

Blingley wrote: Ethics are a luxury. A lot of people making music today are not able to afford them.
That is a truly shocking, dispiriting view.

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