My panel etching saga

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My panel etching saga

Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:54 pm

EDIT: I changed the title and I think I will just keep adding to this thread as I go. (I've added my second attempt)
my first panel etching attempt...
...was a failure. I'm a bit dissapointed but I think i learned enough from the process to be a little more successful next time.
Image
Last edited by Rod Serling Fan Club on Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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rico loverde
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Post by rico loverde » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:01 pm

they still look pretty cool. half the fun is learning right?
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Spanningtree
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Post by Spanningtree » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:13 pm

IDK, they look kinda cool in a post holocaust way. You could build up a system and call it the Mad Max...

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Kent
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Post by Kent » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:21 pm

Actually, yeah; they look pretty cool as is.

JohnLRice

Post by JohnLRice » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:30 pm

I like the post apocalyptic too!

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Post by 3vcos » Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:37 pm

What's wrong with them?

If you lightly wet sand them, I bet they would look more like you want

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Post by Jarno » Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:50 pm

What was the etchant / etch resist? Peroxide and hydrochloride and toner transfer? (this is what I've used a lot to etch stompbox enclosures)

I had this happen to me a couple of times, I think because of slightly too much peroxide and leaving it in too long. I usually check progress often, and this slows the process down a bit. If you just leave it in the etchant will get too hot because of the reaction and starts to speed up.

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:49 pm

I like the way they look. I don't mind the pitting, but most of the words are unreadable. The one that is mostly legible is the dual tube VCA in the upper left corner but you can't really tell that from the picture. I think if I would have taken them out 10 minutes earlier they would have been better.

I used ferric chloride (PCB etchent) for the acid and pnp blue for the masking. I'd be curious to learn more about your method Jarno.

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Post by Jarno » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:59 am

Instead of P-n-P blue, I use Epson S041126 paper. This is photoquality paper for use in inkjet printers, but you print out the layout using a laserprinter, it smells a bit (because of the plastic topcoat) but doesn't damage the printer (at least not mine!).
It's less expensive than P-n-P but still not cheap.
Ferric Chloride is a nice etchant, more controllable than Peroxide/ Hydrochloric. But you still need to watch out has the reaction is exothermic and can "run-away".

Think you're on the right track, this process always takes some finetuning!

Edit:
You're etches are quite deep, do they really need to be this deep? Usually the longer the process takes, etchant may creep under the etch resist. Also, it helps to keep a close watch and keep the bowl in which you do the etching moving to remove the oxidised material, and make sure the etching is uniform.

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Post by analogsteve » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:19 am

3vcos wrote:If you lightly wet sand them, I bet they would look more like you want
This.

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Post by Luka » Mon Nov 29, 2010 5:31 am

you etched pretty deep

my first one looked something like that

it was quite the experience as my fe2 was too strong and it ended up bubbling and steaming off horrible vapour. it was pretty intense!! i thought i had created some super radioactive mutoid waste goo :)

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Post by EATyourGUITAR » Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:17 am

sell them as art for $400 each. get someone to blog about how its a metaphor for some deep emotional experience. then you have all kinds of money to buy more echant.
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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:42 pm

So I got the kids and wife out of the house today and had some time to myself for more etching. I've been reading a bit and discovered a recipe for "saline sulphate" etchant. It is a lot more health and environmentally friendly than ferric chloride. It is a lot less reactive, dirt cheap and easy to make at home. Various universities and art studios use it so I thought I might give it a try as well.

I found that it was far better for me. I read the the bite was finer and cleaner than ferric chloride on alminum and I found that to be the case. Fine details were maintained. I also liked that I could check on the panel freqeuntly without feeling like I was sticking my face into steaming, acidic, toxic fumes.

I haven't decided if I am going to pain the grooves or try an aging/staining process. If they stay this dark after a couple days I might just leave them as is.

Image

Image

Image

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Post by Low-Gain » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:09 pm

Very nice!!! :sb: :sb: :sb: :sb:

I really want to try this now. :)

Btw.. i believe all you gotta do to dispose of the solution is mix it w/ concrete

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Post by kindredlost » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:23 pm

Yeah, or a few bags of ammonium nitrate and a Ryder Van.

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Post by Christopher Winkels » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:33 pm

Hell ya. The Mk.2 versions look superb.

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Post by BananaPlug » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:57 pm

Hey, this Saline Sulfate Etch sounds interesting. I'd not considered etching due to the nasty chemicals but this is less nasty so now I'm intrigued. Thanks for posting.
:nana:

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Post by Bricks » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:01 pm

Some nice work there!! Quija is my fav!

The process is such a headacbe and so time consuming to get it figured out.. but the results can be so stellar and rewarding

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:35 am

Based on my limited experience I see no benefit of ferric chloride over saline copper sulfate for aluminum. The benefits are many:
- Before it gets too dirty, you can see through the liquid (somewhat helpful for watching your panels). It takes a while before it gets dirty, I can do a few panels before visibility suffers.
- Vapors or off gassing is minimal, you can do this inside. I would not recommend etching w/ ferric chloride inside. Gloves, eye protection and ventilation should still be used. Copper sulfate can stain/burn. Don’t eat it or feed it to your loved ones.
- Saline copper sulfate is easy to make 75g copper sulfate + 75g table salt per liter of water
- Cheap and easy to get. A product sold in the plumbing section of a hardware store called “Root Kill” is basically just industrial grade copper sulfate. It cost me $12 for a decent sized bottle of crystals (enough to make about 12 liters). I can do a lot of batches with this. I etched all these panels with 1 liter and have left over solution. We all have table salt and water. I also bought a $5 food scale from target to measure. I used some plastic tubs I already had and used plastic milk containers to mix/hold the solution.
- Someone may want to verify but I read that you can dispose of the dried copper particles in the trash and the liquid should just be watered down and go down the drain (after all “Root Kill” is made for septic systems and table salt is table salt).
- I also read that the contaminates in the used liquid will settle and you can reuse top liquid. I’ve got mine sitting on a shelf so I will let you know how that goes.
- While admittedly I did a botched job on my first panels, ferric chloride has a stronger tendency to eat your masking. I didn’t experience that at all with the saline.
- “burn time” was similar for both. I was surprised how immediate the etching process was with the saline. Works great!

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:41 am

Low-Gain wrote: Btw.. i believe all you gotta do to dispose of the solution is mix it w/ concrete
That’s the best way to solve most of life’s little problems.
Bricks wrote:Some nice work there!! Quija is my fav!
That one convinced my wife that I am doing something worthwhile. She thinks I should make a full sized one. I made the Ouija as a panel for my WSG since nomenclature isn’t all the important. I think I’m going to have a hard time punching holes into it though.

Thanks for the positive comments and helpful hints everyone.

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Post by tragedybysyntax » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:00 pm

My advice bud would be... for Aluminum, DON'T USE FERRIC CHLORIDE! it seems to just east the piss out of it way to quick! I like 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide/1 part Muriatic Acid. :)

BE WARE OF FUMES THO! WEAR A MASK!
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Post by debriff » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:07 pm

[quote
I haven't decided if I am going to pain the grooves or try an aging/staining process. If they stay this dark after a couple days I might just leave them as is.[/quote]

I see that you are building the Steiner Synthasystem Filter :tu:

Do you use the "Analogue Realities" PCB ? The one which includes two ssm2210 ? Does it sound good ?

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:04 pm

debriff wrote:
I haven't decided if I am going to paint the grooves or try an aging/staining process. If they stay this dark after a couple days I might just leave them as is.
I see that you are building the Steiner Synthasystem Filter :tu:

Do you use the "Analogue Realities" PCB ? The one which includes two ssm2210 ? Does it sound good ?
Yes, David a great guy and it's a cool project. I did not use SSM2210s on mine though. I think it sounds great. It is similar sounding to the frequensteiner but can get a little more aggressive. You can listen to mine in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=21697&highlight=steiner

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Post by Rod Serling Fan Club » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:13 pm

tragedybysyntax wrote:My advice bud would be... for Aluminum, DON'T USE FERRIC CHLORIDE! it seems to just east the piss out of it way to quick! I like 2 parts Hydrogen Peroxide/1 part Muriatic Acid. :)

BE WARE OF FUMES THO! WEAR A MASK!
Yeah, I actually went the ferric chloride route following your instructions on some thread here (no blame intended, I was inspired). If you follow through the thread you'll see my second approach I didn't use ferric chloride.

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Post by Synesthesia » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:20 pm

I FUCKING LOVE THE OUIJA BOARD !!!!!!!! BADASS!!! :nana: :twisted: :omg:

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