[AVAILABLE] TTSH V4 Build Thread

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Post by synthcube » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:22 pm

the current latest version posted in the second post is very close; there will be a few minor revisions to a few parts but the majority is set.
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Post by search64 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:22 pm

Oh damn, hadn’t seen the newest version of the BOM from 3 days ago. Do I need to compare them or do you have the cliff notes on the changes so I can adapt the mouser cart?

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Post by synthcube » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:34 pm

safest and best to compare them, although within a few days we should be able to post another even-closer-to-final BOM
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Post by indigoskywalker » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:15 pm

Hi Guys

Have a few questions for synthcube and the community...

Having done a little research into the ARP2600 over the past week, this might be a matter of opinion, but I have noticed how the TTSH is based on the less good sounding of all the ARP2600's. The earlier Blue Marvin and up to 1971 ARP2600's sound fantastic and are reported to be less noisy than the later 2600's. Why did human comparator not go with the older pre 1972 design with 4017 or 4027 VCOs and avoid the LM301's in the rest of the signal path?

Are the 4027-1 VCO's the most stable or is that finding schematics for the earlier designs are unobtanium?

Are synthcube able to offer the TTSH v4 with alternatives to the LM301 (where applicable) as this seems to be a big culprit of the noise in the signal path after the VCO's...?

Also, which filter board is provided? Are there two filter boards in the kit or do we have too choose between the 4012 or the 4072 at the time of ordering?

thanks in advance

Kevin

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Post by search64 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:31 pm

indigoskywalker wrote:Also, which filter board is provided? Are there two filter boards in the kit or do we have too choose between the 4012 or the 4072 at the time of ordering?
Yes, two filter boards provided, so you can go ahead and toss the 4072 once you get the kit, I mean pick your preferred filter.

Unless you want to get a full kit, you can always change the LM301s to TL071 or even OPAs if you’ve got money to burn.

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Post by indigoskywalker » Fri Aug 30, 2019 3:51 pm

search64 wrote:
indigoskywalker wrote:Also, which filter board is provided? Are there two filter boards in the kit or do we have too choose between the 4012 or the 4072 at the time of ordering?
Yes, two filter boards provided, so you can go ahead and toss the 4072 once you get the kit, I mean pick your preferred filter.

Unless you want to get a full kit, you can always change the LM301s to TL071 or even OPAs if you’ve got money to burn.
haha that made me chuckle, so the 4012 sounds better ;-)

I was actually reading some posts by Mike Peake about Tim Smith and upgrades to real 2600's, it seems that yes we can just swap the audio path op amps for TL071 or even OPA604's, but the CV stufff Tim recomends going with LF412's etc.

Did Human Comparator address any of the issues like the VCF cutoff range?

Are there any threads on MW that detail modding the TTSH and improving it?

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Post by sduck » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:50 pm

The blue marvins used a lot of MC1539G instead of LM301s. Besides the different filter. These have slightly less slew than the LM301's, which is part of the sound. The problem with these is that they have a nasty habit of locking up at the extremes of cv range, which can be alleviated with some mods to resistor values and some extra caps.
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Post by synthcube » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:34 pm

Here are a few images of the forthcoming road case. We are really proud of how these turned out especially for the price point. The snap-removable cases are for the reverb tank, power brick, cables etc if you choose to use them. The panel mounting corner blocks are the hardest and best wood for this application that we know of-- and we left them undrilled so you can choose your panel mounting hardware and match the drilling to exactly the location of your panel mounting holes. MIDI IN and MIDI THRU jacks are preinstalled. Even lovlier in person than on the pics!!


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Post by search64 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 12:56 pm

Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:

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Post by search64 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:00 pm

indigoskywalker wrote:
search64 wrote:
indigoskywalker wrote:Also, which filter board is provided? Are there two filter boards in the kit or do we have too choose between the 4012 or the 4072 at the time of ordering?
Yes, two filter boards provided, so you can go ahead and toss the 4072 once you get the kit, I mean pick your preferred filter.

Unless you want to get a full kit, you can always change the LM301s to TL071 or even OPAs if you’ve got money to burn.
haha that made me chuckle, so the 4012 sounds better ;-)

...

Did Human Comparator address any of the issues like the VCF cutoff range?
I don’t think he changed anything much about the design. There are probably some mods to be made by changing some resistor values maybe.

The 4012 is the Moog filter which everyone loves and has great bass and resonance. The newer Arp filter is decent but has a design flaw that hampers its range, plus everyone seems to agree on the fact that you shouldn’t touch the resonance with that filter.

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Post by synthcube » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:13 am

search64 wrote:Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:
the snap case is designed for the shorter tank, but you can always mount a longer tank an the back panel if you choose.

Metal case pictures coming soon..
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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:22 am

search64 wrote:
indigoskywalker wrote:
search64 wrote:
indigoskywalker wrote:Also, which filter board is provided? Are there two filter boards in the kit or do we have too choose between the 4012 or the 4072 at the time of ordering?
Yes, two filter boards provided, so you can go ahead and toss the 4072 once you get the kit, I mean pick your preferred filter.

Unless you want to get a full kit, you can always change the LM301s to TL071 or even OPAs if you’ve got money to burn.
haha that made me chuckle, so the 4012 sounds better ;-)

...

Did Human Comparator address any of the issues like the VCF cutoff range?
I don’t think he changed anything much about the design. There are probably some mods to be made by changing some resistor values maybe.

The 4012 is the Moog filter which everyone loves and has great bass and resonance. The newer Arp filter is decent but has a design flaw that hampers its range, plus everyone seems to agree on the fact that you shouldn’t touch the resonance with that filter.
The Human Comparator (and therefore Synthcube) implementation of the 4072 includes the field notice change from the ARP Service Manual addressing the cutoff range problem.

The 4012 low pass filter has the same problem almost all lowpass filters have with bass response. Like any low pass filter, if you have the cutoff set in the bass range, it has great bass response. If you raise the Q and cutoff frequency, you have less than great bass response. There are lots of things you do with a patch to compensate for this, but I think its not accurate to single out the 4012 for bass response.

As far as preference for 4012 vs 4072, I have heard a range of opinions on this. In my experience (which is limited to TTSH and not 2600), I find the 1V/Oct calibration of the 4012 to be easier and have a wider effective range. The 4012 comes in handy with tuned noise type patches. The 4072 has its uses and adherents. An annoyance with the 4072 is that one of the trimmers is only accessible inside the case. Nonetheless, people buying V4 are encouraged to build both filter cores and decide for themselves. If you already have some filters in your rig, chances are one of them is a clone of the ladder filter. In this case the 4072 would represent some variation.
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Post by fuzzbass » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:29 am

synthcube wrote:
search64 wrote:Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:
the snap case is designed for the shorter tank, but you can always mount a longer tank an the back panel if you choose.

Metal case pictures coming soon..
Types and 4 and 9 tanks fit the steel case with no mod or drilling required.
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Post by search64 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:48 am

fuzzbass wrote:
synthcube wrote:
search64 wrote:Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:
the snap case is designed for the shorter tank, but you can always mount a longer tank an the back panel if you choose.

Metal case pictures coming soon..
Types and 4 and 9 tanks fit the steel case with no mod or drilling required.
Does anyone have any detailed pictures of the previous version of the steel case? Can't seem to find any, except with the front panel on. Just curious to see it I guess.

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Post by ScottMcCandliss » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:28 pm

search64 wrote:Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:
Hi, I'm the case designer and builder... reverb tanks are standard sizes. The v4 specifies a 9 1/2" reverb tank, so the optional reverb bag kit fits that. With or without the option, the holes for a 9 1/2" tank are pre-drilled in the bottom.

If you choose to use a different size reverb tank, assuming you buy it new (they aren't expensive), you can get a reasonably priced tolex tank bag to match from the same supplier, most likely.

The bag mounting method involves fastening the bag to the surface. Inside the tank should be mounted on thin hardwood strips fastened with screws to the tank. On the other side of the strips should be 2 ply corrugated cardboard glued to the strips. The entire assembly goes inside the bag, which, as stated, is then fastened to the wood case.

This appears to be the preferred method of mounting reverb tanks for many Amplifier manufacturers.

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Post by synthcube » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:36 pm

status update--

We have everything in the shop now, except for the panels and metal cases. These are due next week. Wood studio cases and road cases being made up. We're in the midst of 'pre-kitting' orders based on the order queue, and as soon as panels are here we'll be commencing shipping.

thanks all!
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Post by nicdro » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:25 am

thanks for the update!
how close to "final" is the bom?

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Post by synthcube » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:04 am

almost final-- awaiting final OK from test builders---
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Post by search64 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:42 am

Will update the mouser cart once the BOM is final.

When is the a la carte page up? :yay:

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Post by synthcube » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:05 pm

update---
- final BOM should be published this week. BOM v1.2 is close but not final
- critical path to first shipping date is still the panel paint job; we've been told to expect them late this week (same for 1601 panels by the way). Assuming that holds true, we'll be commencing the shipping based on the queue shortly thereafter.

and we should have the ala carte page up this week, to align with publication of the final BOM

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Post by dBVelocity » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:09 am

Looking forward to this! I've been matching transistors and getting pretty pumped up. :guinness:

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Post by zaxby » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:33 pm

hi! like everyone here I am very excited for this!

I was curious if we might have an opportunity to add a la carte items to our kit shipments in order to save on shipping and boxes.

and, on a related note, will you have any of the 1AB2A1B reverb tanks on the a la carte page? it is the only thing I am not able to source elsewhere.

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Post by search64 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:42 pm

zaxby wrote:hi! like everyone here I am very excited for this!

I was curious if we might have an opportunity to add a la carte items to our kit shipments in order to save on shipping and boxes.

and, on a related note, will you have any of the 1AB2A1B reverb tanks on the a la carte page? it is the only thing I am not able to source elsewhere.
See my earlier post about reverb tanks, you don't need that exact tank. Also look at guitar amp kit stores for those tanks.

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Post by ScottMcCandliss » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:53 am

fuzzbass wrote:
synthcube wrote:
search64 wrote:Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:
the snap case is designed for the shorter tank, but you can always mount a longer tank an the back panel if you choose.

Metal case pictures coming soon..
Types and 4 and 9 tanks fit the steel case with no mod or drilling required.
Firstly, Type 4 and type tanks are both the same size, approximately 16 1/2 (~420 mm) in length.



I'm looking at the drawing titled:

Shokbutsu AB\1054-002.dft

for the 1mm steel TTSH case with no lid.

There are indeed two sets of holes pre-drilled in the back panel. However, the largest displacement is 222 mm which is about correct for type 1 and type 8 tanks. There is a set of holes on a 132 mm foot print, presumably for some type of electronic reverb.

I don't see any holes in the drawing that would fit type 4 or 9 tanks. Those would have something over 375mm displacement between longitudinal mounting holes.

However, I doubt synthCube would have a problem with special orders for the reverb tank holes. Might slow the lead time a bit since it would have to wait for a fresh batch in the queue.

f you use a reverb tank bag, then you don't need holes sized for the tank, but for the mounting of the bag. Those can vary a lot. Or you could fasten the bag to the case with adhesive backed velcro.

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Post by fuzzbass » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:51 am

ScottMcCandliss wrote:
fuzzbass wrote:
synthcube wrote:
search64 wrote:Really nice! So the reverb tank for this needs to be the shorter version if you want to use the leather case?

Now how about some pics of the metal case as well? :mrgreen:
the snap case is designed for the shorter tank, but you can always mount a longer tank an the back panel if you choose.

Metal case pictures coming soon..
Types and 4 and 9 tanks fit the steel case with no mod or drilling required.
Firstly, Type 4 and type tanks are both the same size, approximately 16 1/2 (~420 mm) in length.



I'm looking at the drawing titled:

Shokbutsu AB\1054-002.dft

for the 1mm steel TTSH case with no lid.

There are indeed two sets of holes pre-drilled in the back panel. However, the largest displacement is 222 mm which is about correct for type 1 and type 8 tanks. There is a set of holes on a 132 mm foot print, presumably for some type of electronic reverb.

I don't see any holes in the drawing that would fit type 4 or 9 tanks. Those would have something over 375mm displacement between longitudinal mounting holes.

However, I doubt synthCube would have a problem with special orders for the reverb tank holes. Might slow the lead time a bit since it would have to wait for a fresh batch in the queue.

f you use a reverb tank bag, then you don't need holes sized for the tank, but for the mounting of the bag. Those can vary a lot. Or you could fasten the bag to the case with adhesive backed velcro.
I retract what I said above. The steel case comes pre drilled to accept types 1 and 8 pans. M4 fasteners are the best choice for this. To use types 4 or 9 reverbs, some drilling is needed. Better to drill the pan to fit the case. In either case, the mount points are different from the wide holes on the pan accommodating the shock mounts.

What is the advantage of a reverb bag, when the pan is fully enclosed by the case? I have only seen these in open back guitar amps, where wah wah pedals and fat coiled cords are routinely dropped on top the reverb.
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