Pannels, buying/cutting

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zoogoo
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Pannels, buying/cutting

Post by zoogoo » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:33 am

I wanted to know how to make Pannels. YouTube didn't have any good guides. Like what kind of metal, where to get it, what kind of tool to cut them? Stuff like that. The DIY kits don't seem like you save very much money, the Pannels seem like a lot of the cost as well. Maybe it's cheaper to cut your own, right? I could print sticker decals from home.

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batchas
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Post by batchas » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:51 am

I'd recommend to write panel with 1 x n, so it can be found in the search later on.
Maybe also look for "panel making", "aluminium panel", "buying blanks" etc, this kind of terms under "search" on muffwiggler.

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julian
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Post by julian » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:13 am

It all depends on the finish that you want -

Things can range from a face made out of whatever you have to hand for zero cost, right through to paying someone else to create you a "factory" looking part.

At the low end of things, you have card / wood / black marker pen..

Then on to diy drilled and cut metal, or

Diy drilled blanks

Lasertran, etching, dyamo tape, or even laminated paper.

Then to people like me, who will produce you a factory looking part.

...then to the big multinationals who will do similar (in some techniques, not as well) but for way more money.


So there is a real range, depending on what you like the look of, and how deep your pockets are.


To look at costing closer though -

Take Whoop_johns 3340 vco build. The pcbs are £9 from him, the panel is £20 from me. The 3340s are about £5 from latvia. So thats, aprox £34 ish, plus some postage - call it £40. Maybe £10 for the rest of the parts? Even if you call it £15, youre looking at a £55 3340 vco with a good design and a slick panel. What would it cost you to buy that elsewhere?

Im trying to find out what the doeper a111 sells / sold for (admittedly this was before the re-issue) but i think that was close on GBP 200?
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For custom cnc engraved panels see - http://thebeast.co.uk/?page_id=21

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Joe.
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Post by Joe. » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:17 am

Doepfer blank panels are super cheap. (Actually nearly all blank euro panels are super cheap). I wouldn't invest in the tools you need to make panels yourself, unless you plan to make hundreds. Doepfer blanks are just a couple of dollars.

Get a 'centre punch' and a drill press.

Imho the best way to layout a panel is to design it on your PC then print it onto paper with a sticker backing. Then you can lay it on your panel, punch your hole guides, drill it, and then remove the sticker paper.

You could use a ruler and a marker and draw designs on your panels but they will always look abit wonky.

If you try and drill with a hand held drill you are risking serious injury. Don't do it (drill presses are really cheap the days, and if your using a centre punch you'll always get a get hole). Also, wear safety glasses.

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Post by flts » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:32 am

LoFi Junglist wrote:If you try and drill with a hand held drill you are risking serious injury. Don't do it (drill presses are really cheap the days, and if your using a centre punch you'll always get a get hole). Also, wear safety glasses.
I'd argue that hand held drill is no more a risk for serious injury than a bench press... The actual risk in either case is if you neglect to clamp the workpiece to a table, or to use protective eyewear.

Even in that case, if anything, a bench press is bound to have more power and you don't stop it just by stopping to squeeze a trigger, so things have more time to fly / spin around before you manage to stop the machine.

(I agree though, a bench drill is the sane choice for panel work regarding ease of use, accuracy of positioning, etc., I wouldn't just say it's any safer...)
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Post by FetidEye » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:40 am

you can also choose for wood or perspex
go to a FABLab and do it yourself with a lasercutter
3mm wood

at some FABLabs you can cut metal / aluminum

other option: PCB panel
Last edited by FetidEye on Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jay F.
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Post by Jay F. » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:40 am

Hi,

I documented my technique for module panels over here :
https://growyoursynth.blogspot.be/2017/ ... nique.html

And you'll find two YouTube tutorials from Ray Wilson about that technique here :
http://musicfromouterspace.com/index.ph ... 32&VPH=546

I use Doepfer blank plates (4HP, 8HP or 42HP - 2mm Aluminum) as base material.
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Post by Randy » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:52 am

I get blanks from Syinsi (http://syinsi.com/), price is good, he's local to me and he's an interesting guy.

I use laser printer waterslide decal paper for the panel graphics, not perfect and a bit tricky to use but it works. I also use a drill press for drilling holes, much easier to get accurate holes with that. And a centre punch.

Since larger panels can be hard to get, I have cut my own, using a pro-grade cookie sheet as a donor and a Dremel to cut it. As you can imagine, getting a straight cut is really difficult.

Randy

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Joe.
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Post by Joe. » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:20 am

flts wrote: The actual risk in either case is if you neglect to clamp the workpiece to a table, or to use protective eyewear.

Even in that case, if anything, a bench press is bound to have more power and you don't stop it just by stopping to squeeze a trigger, so things have more time to fly / spin around before you manage to stop the machine.
That's a real danger that most people (who are being impatient) risk.

lowering the drill head, centring the panel, clamping it, turning on the drill, peck a few times, power off, clean the swarf, unlcamp, repeat. It's a boring routine (see what I did there), and safety isn't the main priority for most people, time is. People naturally want to find shortcuts and be 'more efficient'.

The problem i have with hand drills is people tend to lean over them and press down on them, and risk the drill slipping out. Just thinking about the accidents 1st yr apprentices have scares the shit out of me, let alone your average Joe with a power tool.

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Post by tojpeters » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:57 am

I have a bit of a tutorial in the manufacturers section ,the MFOS heading ,sound lab ultimate build.
The real key is drilling your holes undersize and finishing with a file.
Even a drill press will wander. And use a step drill.

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Re: Pannels, buying/cutting

Post by JohnLRice » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:04 am

zoogoo wrote:I wanted to know how to make Pannels.
For what format? :hmm:

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Re: Pannels, buying/cutting

Post by euromorcego » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:12 am

zoogoo wrote:I wanted to know how to make Pannels. [...] The DIY kits don't seem like you save very much money, the Pannels seem like a lot of the cost as well. Maybe it's cheaper to cut your own, right? [...]
Yes, panneling your own panels can save money. As others have said: easiest is to use blind panels from doepfer and others. And then drill, zoogoo, drill.

Just avoid digital panels, they might color the sound. I recommend wodden panels. You can use laser cutter services (like ponoko.com) to do some nice panels.

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Re: Pannels, buying/cutting

Post by cretaceousear » Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:54 am

euromorcego wrote:
zoogoo wrote:I wanted to know how to make Pannels. [...] The DIY kits don't seem like you save very much money, the Pannels seem like a lot of the cost as well. Maybe it's cheaper to cut your own, right? [...]
Yes, panneling your own panels can save money. As others have said: easiest is to use blind panels from doepfer and others. And then drill, zoogoo, drill.

Just avoid digital panels, they might color the sound. I recommend wodden panels. You can use laser cutter services (like ponoko.com) to do some nice panels.
Aren't laser cutters digitally driven though?

I was going to mention Dibond - a metal laminate - but that's printed digitally, so steps. Come to think of it traditional halftone screens are analog sampling - is that acceptable Zoogoo?
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ersatzplanet
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Post by ersatzplanet » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:03 pm

I use Front Panel Express - https://www.frontpanelexpress.com The software is free, they now do photo graphics (cheaper than the milled graphics they used to only do). The program quotes you the prices in singles and quantities and they can come in many different finishes and thicknesses.

They are not super cheap but the quality of the product is great. If you have any holes other than round, they are hands-down the easiest way to go. I have made many panels with them. Here are some examples:

Image

Image

Image
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Post by ashleym » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:14 pm

Have a look at your local fleabay for some aluminium offcuts. You can normally get a load of scrap sheet for next to nothing to practice on. Drilling, labelling, spraying with a lacquer, repeating when you get the labels in the wrong place for the knobs you want to use etc

You can also get some sheet cut to the right panel size for not much too.

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julian
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Post by julian » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:25 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:I use Front Panel Express -
[snip]
Here are some examples:
Hehe... i resisted the urge to post photos before, but i figure it may be fair game now... : )

Here are some examples of panels cut here -

Image

Image

Image

Image


/spam : )

In all seriousness though, there are many options, all depending on the degree of professionalism required. Im all for people diy'ing also - my own frustration with using Lasertran to make my own panels was what got me into CNC work in the first place, but, if i had not have been as fussy, id probably have just stuck with the waterslide transfers.
.



_________

For stocked euro / buchla / midibox see - http://thebeast.co.uk/?post_type=product

For custom cnc engraved panels see - http://thebeast.co.uk/?page_id=21

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zoogoo
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Post by zoogoo » Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:49 pm

Yes the power tools I'm using must be analog too or the music will be ruined. I saw some people posting the word"laser",I almost lost my shit.

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Re: Pannels, buying/cutting

Post by thetwlo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:49 am

euromorcego wrote: Yes, panneling your own panels can save money. As others have said: easiest is to use blind panels from doepfer and others. And then drill, zoogoo, drill.

Just avoid digital panels, they might color the sound. I recommend wodden panels. You can use laser cutter services (like ponoko.com) to do some nice panels.
be nice, English is clearly not his native language. He doesn't state where he's from but clearly English is not his native tongue.

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NANO-Jorge
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Post by NANO-Jorge » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:06 am

To fabricate my panels, I went to a Fablab here in Valencia. I used 2.5mm wood laser cut. With a laser cutting machine you can cut and engrave.

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Post by FetidEye » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:06 am

exactly!

I mostly use lines (underpowered cutting) for graphics though, because if you use engraving on a large space, the wood layer gets fragile.
And I like the look of black lines on wood.

looks like this:
Image

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NANO-Jorge
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Post by NANO-Jorge » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:50 am

Yes, I do the same, lines for the text.

Image[/img]

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Post by Eric the Red » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:07 am

With anything from 3D printers making plastic panels, cardboard, wood, metal, plexiglass, you can pretty much panels from anything you have sitting around.

The factors that impact this are how much you want to pay - either for parts, tools, etc... and what you want the final product to look like.
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Post by Jefro » Thu Apr 05, 2018 10:46 am

I've been using Synthrotek blanks (turned backwords so they're solid black), a hand drill, a dremel, and a silver paint marker for my DIY panels. They come out looking VERY diy, and a little punk rock. I'm ok with that.

The vias that are on the blanks make hole alignment a breeze and mostly error free. The exception, of course, is if you need a hole that doesn't line up with the vias.

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Post by js213 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:31 pm

ersatzplanet wrote:I use Front Panel Express - https://www.frontpanelexpress.com The software is free, they now do photo graphics (cheaper than the milled graphics they used to only do). The program quotes you the prices in singles and quantities and they can come in many different finishes and thicknesses.

They are not super cheap but the quality of the product is great. If you have any holes other than round, they are hands-down the easiest way to go. I have made many panels with them. Here are some examples:
I just ordered my first panel from FPE. It's a 4U panel for a Pittsburgh Outs and a banana to 3.5mm converter to fit an R*S boat. I'm really anxious to see it in person.

Nice to see the graphics option. I'll probably use that on the next panel (for a couple CGS modules)

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Post by flts » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:27 am

LoFi Junglist wrote:The problem i have with hand drills is people tend to lean over them and press down on them, and risk the drill slipping out. Just thinking about the accidents 1st yr apprentices have scares the shit out of me, let alone your average Joe with a power tool.
Oh... Yeah. You're right. Using an underpowered drill or wanting something that doesn't generally happen very fast (eg. drilling jack holes with a battery powered drill) to happen much faster would make someone do that... I can see how that would be a risk.

(FWIW I was just reminded of this discussion yesterday, drilling a large'ish panel on an old heavy Taiwanese cast iron bench drill, with minimal clamping because it didn't have a crossfeed / cross-slide table, and I wanted to get it done quickly and get back home... I guess it's always easy to educate others and much harder to do it right yourself, at least I had protective gear on)
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