Mini-Modules : Minimoog DIY clone on its way.

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kid303
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Post by kid303 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:07 am

@Broadwave

Those diy pcbs for the pots and switches do they do anything specific or are they just an aid to enable interfacing/wiring them to the analogue board.

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kid303
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Post by kid303 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:40 am

@nickster

What power supply have you made

Thats one of the dilemas (there are many) I'm having as to leave it stand alone but there needs to be some form of interfacing with the unit and as you say there are also effect and utility consideration also. Its not so bad if you have a eororack with other modules I guess but its only just occured to me that I was thinking of other euro modules needed to talk to it because of the different voltages in 5u.
What I mean is I was thinking that only euro modules would be able to talk to it and 5u modules wont but I dont think that is the case is it.
I mean for example a Dotcom midi2cv would talk to the MME wouldnt it.
I was thinking I would have to say have this within a say 104hp case with just euro modules in it and a 5u seperate modular and they wouldnt communicate with each other but that sounds silly now I think about it. After all so long as the 1v per oct is maintained then mixing a 5u lfo with a euro oscillator shouldnt be a problem I would of thought.
I guess I was thinking with 5u mainly being + and - 15v and euro being + and - 12v there would be some kind of clash with certain modules.

I guess to cut a long story short and make a question out of this:-

I'm talking seperate cases now obviously not in one case but do 5u modulars communicate with Eurorack modular synths.

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kid303
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Post by kid303 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:49 am

what is the average power consumption of Eurorack modules so I can make a rough guesstimate as to how many modules the RT-65B will power.

Obviously the Mini Module will take up 60hp and that will leave 44hp out of a 104hp case.

If anyone would have an idea (ballpark) of how many modules the RT-65B will power, let me know please. Cheers

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Post by kid303 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:56 am

@ Broadwave

I'm so glad you put me onto that Timber yard, it turns out its only up the road from me, well 10 miles but hey its a big road.

What a brilliant place, I was looking for for timber yards a few months ago and never found that site, strange.
Anyway I cant wait to see you Synthesizer when its done, I couldnt see the slanted sides in the shot of your cut boards and it did appear a little lighter than the saple in the light, more like white oak, did you ask them about that.

Beautifull wood anyway mind.

I got a Dowelking from Neutechnik which is really good for .. well .. dowells.

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jdelgoulet
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Post by jdelgoulet » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:36 am

kid303 wrote:what is the average power consumption of Eurorack modules so I can make a rough guesstimate as to how many modules the RT-65B will power.

Obviously the Mini Module will take up 60hp and that will leave 44hp out of a 104hp case.

If anyone would have an idea (ballpark) of how many modules the RT-65B will power, let me know please. Cheers
This cannot be answered. You will have to do your own maths with the modules you want to have in your rack. The RT-65B can deliver up to 1A on -12V and 3.5A on +12V.
So you take your modules power consumption for each rails and you sum them up, keeping a few mA in case manufacturer data is not optimum.

PS : I'm the owner of a white yusynth, but not the one you see on Yves pages. However, I have sold some white 5U panel on Yves forum back in the days ;-)

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kid303
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Post by kid303 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:04 am

Hi jdelgoulet,

According to the data sheet it says its +5v 5a, +12v 2.8a and -12v 0.5a
Thats why I was asking about equal power to each rail as the minus is rated at 500ma but it will go up to 1a from what I can gather.

Threason I asked if it was you on Yves site is the name is Guigui and from fance obviously its not quite your company name as its missing the n's.

Let me just congratulate you on your thouroghly hard work and attention to detail with this synthesizer, its very impressive.

Do you have any plans to release the individual modules you were intending to create initially or are you just going to move onto something new.

Did you ever chain all those modules together you had lined up just after your friends completed them.
If so I bet that was something to behold.

Just to reiterate it was the 500ma on the negative power rail that made me ask as to how many modules it would roughly power.

Its quite a packs quite a punch so I can imagine the RT-65B will power a fair few modules and from what I can gather the digital modules need the 5v so its actuall a really good choice, especially for someone starting out and not wanting to spend hundreds like an Intellijel power supply for example.
I'm only going by the MFOS website when it comes to my knowledge (lack off) but I didnt fancy wiring two wall warts together. I'd rather go the torroid route but I dont like the idea of having bare wires like the tutorial Ray gave on how to construct a Modular synth case. He did say it was caveman style but I dont trust myself to have something like that, its just an accident waiting to happen.

Was judt looking into getting the LS3954A transistors and you have to get 7 and it costs £38 but the excess will be sold on I'm sure.

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Post by nickster » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:58 am

@kid303 I used this power supply solution: https://modularaddict.com/frogleg-synth ... supply-pcb

If you are talking about separate cases for your MME and your 5u then as long as your 5u modules are following the Moog standard of 1 volt per octave then you aught to be able to patch in a cv cable from say a 5u LFO into an appropriate slot in your MME. If that is what you meant.

I decided to stick with having the MME in it's own housing with no additions as I already have a Moog CP-251 and a Eurorack set up. Except somewhere down the road I may well add a MIDI to CV such as the MIDImplant: http://www.midimplant.com/.

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Post by kid303 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:05 am

I've been meaning to ask this for a bit now but just remembered.

Will the BF245C be ok,
On the BOM it just states the BF245 but obviously there are three iterations,
A,B, and C, C being the lower of the specs.
Ledman has BF245B on his site nut they are not necessarily for this project.

I would of thought it is ok but need to clarify.

Also is the 1n5819 diode ok instead of the 1n5819B,
I know sometimes the letter afterwards can mean how it is packaged but not always and the letter can be a spec I guess.

I'm sorry if these are stupidly simple questions to answer but this is one of the only ways I learn.

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Post by kid303 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:24 am

Yeah I know but they are out of stock I checked after your first post on the subject

Yes I thought as long as it is Moog scale they would communicate and yes thats what I mean, I ramble on a lot and its probably very easy to lose the gist.

That CP-251 looks a nice piece of kit.

Sweetwater was demonstrating the Werkstaat and he was interfacing with that through jumper cables.
He knows his stuff that Daniel Fisher, he learnt how to use the Moog Modular system 55 in University many years ago he said as he was demonstrating the re-isue of the system 55.
Anyway I've seen those midimplant when I was trawling the net for mdi2cv interfaces for the MME, it boasts to be the smallest if I'm not mistaken.
There is that midialf to thats small. The best featured midi modules (fullsize) are Yarns and ACX synths midi2cv, that boasts polyphony to I think but most of them midipal to are all based on Oliviers design from Mutable Instruments I think but dont quote me on that. Thats why I'd be inclined to go for Yarns because I'm a cheap skate and I want as much as I can get for my money.
Expert sleepers are ahead of the curve in some ways I think, they have some really interesting interfacing modules. I cant play the keyboard so I'm a big fam of expressive MPE controllers. I love the sound of the flute and violin so to be able to have that breath type force and vibrato is a winner for me.
I'd love to be able to have the touch interface from buchla, although there are other similar controllers on the market know which look pretty much the same.

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Post by jdelgoulet » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:34 am

kid303 wrote:I've been meaning to ask this for a bit now but just remembered.

Will the BF245C be ok,

Also is the 1n5819 diode ok instead of the 1n5819B.
There is no stupid questions ;-)
BF245C is perfectly fine as well as 1N5819.

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Post by kid303 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:35 am

Thank you

studyman
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matched transistor and wiring

Post by studyman » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:10 pm

Hello,
just a simple question; how can i be sur i matched 2 transistors ? and a second one, is there a wiring diagram for the MME minimoog clone ? because i finished the soldering phase but i ..
Thanks
Pierre

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Post by jdelgoulet » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:15 am

How can i be sur i matched 2 transistors ? : trust your multimeter ;-)
Is there a wiring diagram ? : if you bought the 'non suitable for eurorack pcb', there is a wiring diagram for the rotary switches and jacks at this address : https://github.com/guinguin-instruments ... umentation

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Post by studyman » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:29 pm

hello, i bought the eurorack version but what is the connection for JP18-JP11-JP12-JP13-JP1 and JP10 ? i think i need to built a "eurorack power distribution" is it true ? i bought your power supply that you recommended...sorry but i'm new in eurorack ....I'm from DIJON, France...
thanks

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Post by Broadwave » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:44 am

kid303 wrote:@ Broadwave

I'm so glad you put me onto that Timber yard, it turns out its only up the road from me, well 10 miles but hey its a big road.

What a brilliant place, I was looking for for timber yards a few months ago and never found that site, strange.
Anyway I cant wait to see you Synthesizer when its done, I couldnt see the slanted sides in the shot of your cut boards and it did appear a little lighter than the saple in the light, more like white oak, did you ask them about that.

Beautifull wood anyway mind.

I got a Dowelking from Neutechnik which is really good for .. well .. dowells.
It's one of the few decent places on-line that cut to size and aren't too expensive - I'll definitely use them again.

Yes, the wood is American White Oak - I made a boo-boo on the order page and I didn't notice :bang:

It's coming along nicely - The sides are now cut to shape and everything doweled and glued ready for sanding. I'm still unsure of the final finish, Wood Dye looks a bit off, so I'll probably just give it a few coats of Teak Oil to bring out the grain.

The panel PCBs help with the interwiring, but it's still a mess at the moment as I'm rushing to test everything - I'll tidy it all up later... errr... probably :hihi:


Colour test left to right - Linseed oil, Walnut Dye, Red Mahogany Dye, Teak Oil
Image

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Post by Rex Coil 7 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:31 am

Altitude909 wrote:
kid303 wrote:..switch mode power supply I think but I thought they are inherently bad for audio applications in terms of adding noise..
that's complete nonsense. EVERY modern musical device and pretty much all commercial euro power supplies are SMPS based.
No it isn't nonsense, not even a little bit. I've lost count of how many threads there are within Miffwugglers alone that go into "why doesn't my (Rene, Pressure Points, VCO, etc ...) work properly" etc..

It's far simpler to manufacture a crappy switching PSU than it is to make a good one. Many (most) switching PSUs are designed down to cost. Most have too much ripple, half wave rectified, circuit noise, etc. Don't allow big name brands splattered on the side of a given switching PSU fool or confuse you, either.

Member *kid303 has a very valid question aimed at very valid notions, certainly not "complete nonsense". And that member is also very correct to be concerned.

My statements are backed up by years of designing, manufacturing, and selling audio circuits myself. Not coming from regurgitating opinions someone else posted that I've read on the almighty internet.

Nonsense? .... indeed not. Especially when one takes into consideration the amount of money and time spent on building a project of magnitude. The power supply and distribution system is the very core of the entirety. If that's not ~right~ the rest of the entire device will suffer for it.

Build your home on mud and the foundation is bound to crack.

8-)
You mean this place has hot chicks, morning drinking, and free vomit? ... I'm all in!
5U PROJECT - (skip pages 4 through 6, boring junk) ... viewtopic.php?t=78836&highlight=
Never Quit, Die Falling Forward

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Post by jdelgoulet » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:37 am

studyman wrote:hello, i bought the eurorack version but what is the connection for JP18-JP11-JP12-JP13-JP1 and JP10 ? i think i need to built a "eurorack power distribution" is it true ? i bought your power supply that you recommended...sorry but i'm new in eurorack ....I'm from DIJON, France...
thanks
JP10 : you must put a jumper (so that both pins are connected)
JP11 - JP12 - JP13 are not use yet : leave them like that. Those will be used for an up coming extension that will allow to access all 3 VCOs output waveforms at the same time (plus a sine wave generated for all 3), allowing you to patch the VCO like if they were single eurorack modules.
JP1 is not used yet : same as JP11, JP12, JP13 but for noise.
JP18 : this is the eurorack power. The pinout is :

-12V/GND/GND/GND/+12V
If you look closely on the board at the bottom of JP18, it is marked '-12V'.

Yes you will need a bus board. Also, if you only have the MME right now, you could just make a simple adaptor using some bare 'pre-drill' PCB.

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Post by studyman » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:04 pm

great ! that's more clear now ! thanks...

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Post by studyman » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:19 pm

and jp 19 ...?

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Post by jdelgoulet » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:49 pm

studyman wrote:and jp 19 ...?
The purpose of JP19 is to select if you want the VCF-ENV envelop output before or after the 'Amount' control.
There are 3 pins. If you connect (with a little jumper) 1 and 2 you get the envelop pre 'Amount' control. If you connect 2 and 3 you get the envelop signal after the "Amount' control.

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Post by studyman » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:05 pm

ok,
have you a reference for a good bus board in DIY or PCB....?

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Post by jdelgoulet » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:24 am

studyman wrote:ok,
have you a reference for a good bus board in DIY or PCB....?
I don't but if you can etch PCBs at home here is the blueprint you can use to make one. This one can go at the back of the Mean Well PSU :

Mini Bus Board blue print pdf.

Image[/url]
Image[/url]

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Post by Broadwave » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:25 am

studyman wrote:ok,
have you a reference for a good bus board in DIY or PCB....?
I've always used FR4 Tinned 0.1 stripboard as a power bus - Never had a problem, and it's also excruciatingly cheap.

Image

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Post by bemerritt » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:24 pm

Removed :despair:

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Post by Jop » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:19 pm

Hi there,

Want to start soon with this project but have some doubts how to solder the voltage regulators. Besides the pins is it needed to solder the big ground pad to the back of the chip? Any tips how to achieve this without overheating the regulators?

I have found below instructions, does these make sense?

http://coecsl.ece.illinois.edu/segbot/regulators.html

Thanks!

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