Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

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frijitz
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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:04 pm

Either. Mine is shaping very well now.

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Th°ne
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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by Th°ne » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:06 pm

Done it.
Not better yet compared from the last state.
//EDITED//
Still trying things around.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:28 pm

Wait, my replacements were actually 311P. So no caps with that version. I’ll check again if I have 311C.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by Th°ne » Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:11 pm

Thanks Ian !

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Tue Apr 28, 2020 11:30 pm

Looks like the LM311N works best. I just checked three different builds, and they all look good.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by Th°ne » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:44 am

Thank you very much Ian !
I will wait to receive the 311N from Mouser and report you the results.
It shouldn't be long.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by Th°ne » Mon May 04, 2020 1:02 pm

Hello Ian
So i finally received the LM311N. Making the second Teezer while ;)
They seems to work great and i have no more chaotique field in the range of the frequencies.
Still a tiny glitch at top of the triangle (attached), I might try things with C6 (according to https://modularsynthesis.com/bridechamber/tzfm/tzfm.htm).
It sounds very nice anyway.
I'm very happy as it's A Very Good Oscillator.The more subtle and rich i've ever tried or heard by my ears. Thank you so much Ian for having done this, and helping me !
Many thanks also to the people running this forum (and all the others meanings in) !

Best regards.
Olivier
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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Mon May 04, 2020 3:47 pm

Glad it is working. Hard to get any better than that. No need to mess with C6. We have a big beautiful injection trimmer for that.

Ian

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Th°ne
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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by Th°ne » Mon May 04, 2020 5:02 pm

I'll try again with the Inj Trim, but it sound so beautiful already. Thank you again Ian !
//EDITED//I was also tempted for future builds, to bring on the front panel the Sin Lev trimmer with a pot, i found some beautiful colors of sound trimming it.
Raw basic test track after some "calibration" : One Teezer sine through a (2180) VCA (driven by SSG smooth out), to the other Teezer Lin FM (AC).
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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by the bad producer » Thu May 07, 2020 10:50 am

Salut Th°ne!

Actually was trying to finish a new Teezer build and came across this exact issue today! I put LM311P in first without thinking and had this problem, replacing them with LM311N solved it

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Thu May 07, 2020 1:09 pm

Thanks! Good to know.

Ian

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by Th°ne » Thu May 07, 2020 1:40 pm

Salut The Bad Producer.
Thank you for these informations. So funny this P and N thingies, ain't it ? !!!! So it is solved, and sounds magic.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by emmaker » Thu May 07, 2020 2:07 pm

I'm going to be making some Teezers at some point and am interested in this 311 issue. But it's not making sense to me.

I looked at old National, current TI and current STMicro datasheets for the flavors of 311. I could not find a 311C so I'm wondering about that. The P and N parts of the part number are packaging as far as I can tell. Nothing to do with electrical characteristics. So don't know why that would affect the signal.

I'm more interested in who the manufactures are and where they were bought (disti, ebay, amazon...). Those seem like they may be more of an issue (or just a bad part) than the packaging.

Thanks
Jay S.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by elmegil » Thu May 07, 2020 2:23 pm

Interestingly, I'm looking at a 2016 TI datasheet for these and it doesn't even mention the N package.

An ON Semiconductor datasheet from 2012 references N, but not P.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by emmaker » Thu May 07, 2020 2:34 pm

elmegil wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 2:23 pm
Interestingly, I'm looking at a 2016 TI datasheet for these and it doesn't even mention the N package.

An ON Semiconductor datasheet from 2012 references N, but not P.
The old National datasheet:
H - Metal can
J-8, N - 8 pin DIP
J - 16 pin DIP
M - 8 pin surface mount, probably SOIC or SO
W - Flat pack

Current TI:
FK - LCCC, 20 pin
JG - CDIP
D - SOIC
P - PDIP
PS - SO
PW - TSSOP

STMicro:
N - DIP
D - SO
Last edited by emmaker on Thu May 07, 2020 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by elmegil » Thu May 07, 2020 2:40 pm

Yeah I found a NatSemi datasheet from 2004, has all that (also interesting is the difference between J-8 and N) and no P

What did TI break? :-D

Worth noting that the only ones I have on hand are TI version, and do in fact only have P suffixes.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by emmaker » Thu May 07, 2020 2:51 pm

elmegil wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 2:40 pm
What did TI break? :-D
Well it could be a number of things.

Chip rev.
Bad chip.
Chip used in something else, has been stressed and doesn't work right.
Counterfeit chip or seconds from a marginal source. Sometimes these can get back into the disti channels via buy backs too.

Jay S.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by elmegil » Thu May 07, 2020 3:12 pm

Unfortunately my Teezer is in storage (with all the rest of my personal Euro stash) or I'd check it, and try out the P packages I have which I'm pretty sure are new (which of course doesn't mean they aren't seconds back in the channel).

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Thu May 07, 2020 3:31 pm

You may consult here for a previous explanation:

https://e2e.ti.com/support/amplifiers/f/14/t/543829

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by the bad producer » Thu May 07, 2020 4:57 pm

Thanks Ian!

FWIW both my P and N 311’s were brand new from Mouser, no funny eBay business.

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Thu May 07, 2020 5:38 pm

The max CM V limit is not mentioned in the data-sheet text, just shown on one of the graphs. Never noticed it. Should be easy to fix when I have some time.

Ian

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by jersupereq » Thu May 07, 2020 8:32 pm

I forgot to order enough 5.6 zener diodes :bang:
But I do have a ton of 5.1 zener though. I believe they should be an ok substitution on the TGTSH and possibly the ADAR Plus, but I'd love a second opinion. Thanks!

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Fri May 08, 2020 1:06 pm

jersupereq wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:32 pm
I forgot to order enough 5.6 zener diodes :bang:
But I do have a ton of 5.1 zener though. I believe they should be an ok substitution on the TGTSH and possibly the ADAR Plus, but I'd love a second opinion. Thanks!
Should be OK, as they just set Trig Out levels, which normally do not need to be over 5V. But there doesn’t seem to be a standard for trig levels, so if there is trouble, check the module’s requirements.

Ian

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Re: Ian Fritz Build Thread - Slider PCB error fix on pg 3

Post by frijitz » Thu May 14, 2020 8:09 pm

Chaotic issue is resolved. For anyone having this problem with the LM311P version, adding 100pF caps from the (+) inputs of the comparitors to ground seems to work. This replaces the direct feedback with feedback through a capacititve voltage divider, avoiding overvoltaging the inputs. I don't have any of the LM311C units, so if anyone wants to try this fix with them please let us know the results. Thanks!

Ian

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