Altering the speed but not the pitch

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Duplan
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Altering the speed but not the pitch

Post by Duplan » Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:29 pm

Sorry if that has been asked before, but do you know of any module that can slow down or speed up an audio signal without changing its pitch... Yeah basically I'm talking granular synthesis. I thought the Phonogene could do time-stretching but I haven't found the way.

Thanks for your help :tu:

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Post by Summa » Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:03 pm

Mungo g0 :tu:

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Post by DonKartofflo » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:13 pm

Summa wrote:Mungo g0 :tu:
this.
it is currently the only module in euro capable of that afaik.
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Post by Juanjocov » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:23 pm

I think you can do it with phonogene too. Connecting a clock into the gene shift input. I think the Gene size knob should be at least at 9 o'clock. Fast clock would do time compression and slow clock would do time stretching.

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Post by Duplan » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:10 am

Hmmm.. thank you folks

And g0... $$$ :woah:

What about the Red panda Particle pedal ? Someone tried it for time stretching ?

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Post by dj_bluefalcon » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:26 am

What's the US price for the Mungo g0?

ModularGrid says $750.

Umm... :bang:

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Post by exper » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:15 am

I'd wait to see what Harvestman's granular module will be like. His modules are always great.

Btw, you can get the tyme Sefari to do that as well as the Modcan CV recorder. But it's a more 'vintage' stretch sound.
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Post by tommaso » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:37 am

Juanjocov wrote:I think you can do it with phonogene too. Connecting a clock into the gene shift input. I think the Gene size knob should be at least at 9 o'clock. Fast clock would do time compression and slow clock would do time stretching.
Yup! This is right :guinness:

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Post by Summa » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:19 am

dj_bluefalcon wrote:What's the US price for the Mungo g0?

ModularGrid says $750.

Umm... :bang:

yeah, that's the price I got, the other modules as listed:

f0 $600
g0 $750
w0 $600
+ $25 zoom control or $75 midi & zoom control (one per system, shared with all modules)
+ $25 postage

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Post by twincities » Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:29 am

i believe it was on here that i started an identical thread a month or two ago. the general advice was the g0. i'm hoping to try one out in person soon. make sure it isn't just a clone of the particle.

the upcoming modcan delay does time shift without pitch adjusting so slowing down the clock will stretch what's in a delay stream in real time.

the reissue of the eh 16 second delay stretches without pitch shifting in a similar way to what was described above with the phonogene. creates some really cool textures.

other than that stuff i'd love to hear more advice for this kind of stuff in the modular world. i'm all about it!

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Post by Duplan » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:01 am

twincities wrote: i'd love to hear more advice for this kind of stuff in the modular world. i'm all about it!
Agreed. I think more eurorack inventors should try this direction. IMHO it really is an interesting way of doing electronic music. There are tons of software doing granular synthesis, so why not more modular stuff ? The gO is just too expensive... Mr Doepfer, please do something!


Thanks everyone for the advices, I'll definitely try the Phonogene trick.

About the Red Panda Particle, any more users of this pedal with synths ?


Cheers :party:

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Post by dj_bluefalcon » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:07 am

I have to agree about the g0.

As much as it boggles my brain and gives me a massive Gearection, that one module costs as much as I paid for my first car. Regardless of how badly I want one, I just don't know I could go for that.

In any case, Mungo, please keep up the amazing work. I love love love your modules, even though I may never own any of them.

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Post by xonetacular » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:36 am

dj_bluefalcon wrote:What's the US price for the Mungo g0?

ModularGrid says $750.

Umm... :bang:
seriously- $400-$500 is about my limit for any nice new euro module. I made an exception for the DPO at $600 since it's loaded with vactrols and is several modules in one, but don't think I would ever pay more for anything in euro.

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Post by xonetacular » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:40 am

dj_bluefalcon wrote:What's the US price for the Mungo g0?

ModularGrid says $750.

Umm... :bang:
seriously- $400-$500 is about my limit for any nice new euro module. I made an exception for the DPO at $600 since it's loaded with vactrols and is several modules in one, but don't think I would ever pay more for anything in euro.

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Post by Kingnimrod » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:50 am

tommaso wrote:
Juanjocov wrote:I think you can do it with phonogene too. Connecting a clock into the gene shift input. I think the Gene size knob should be at least at 9 o'clock. Fast clock would do time compression and slow clock would do time stretching.
Yup! This is right :guinness:
someone post a video of this - tried it last night and it didn't work.

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Post by ersatzplanet » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:05 am

You can always do it the truly analog way:

From - http://valhalladsp.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... e-digital/

In a 1966 Journal of the Audio Engineering Society article, William Marlens traces the history of analog pitch and time changing devices, with the earliest patents dating back to the 1920′s. The basic idea of all of the patents was to record the audio signal onto some moving medium (tape, wire, film, etc.), and then use a rotating playback head, where the read heads would be moving at a different rate as the recording head:

Image

The rotary playback head has 2, 4 or more read heads. By adjusting the rate of the rotation relative to the tape motion, the pitch of the signal can be raised or lowered. Time expansion / compression can be achieved by speeding up or slowing down the rate of the tape, while keeping the tape heads moving past the tape at a rate that is identical to the original recording rate. As a given tape head comes into contact and is rotated away from the tape, the output signal from that given head will fade in and out, which results in a natural cross-fading of pitch shifted segments.

I remember theses machines from my old college EM classes. The ones mentioned there were of German origin and had the typically wild sounding (to non Germans of course) multi-sylable german name that I don't remember. Sort of like the rotating heads of a Video recorder only not helical and with a varispeed transport.
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Post by Duplan » Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:17 pm

This thread is old, any news on this matter ? New modules ?? Audio Damage Grainshift maybe ?

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Post by tommaso » Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:00 am

Kingnimrod wrote:
tommaso wrote:
Juanjocov wrote:I think you can do it with phonogene too. Connecting a clock into the gene shift input. I think the Gene size knob should be at least at 9 o'clock. Fast clock would do time compression and slow clock would do time stretching.
Yup! This is right :guinness:
someone post a video of this - tried it last night and it didn't work.
[video][/video]

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Post by DerHeinrich » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:15 am

ersatzplanet wrote:You can always do it the truly analog way:

From - http://valhalladsp.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... e-digital/

In a 1966 Journal of the Audio Engineering Society article, William Marlens traces the history of analog pitch and time changing devices, with the earliest patents dating back to the 1920′s. The basic idea of all of the patents was to record the audio signal onto some moving medium (tape, wire, film, etc.), and then use a rotating playback head, where the read heads would be moving at a different rate as the recording head:

Image

The rotary playback head has 2, 4 or more read heads. By adjusting the rate of the rotation relative to the tape motion, the pitch of the signal can be raised or lowered. Time expansion / compression can be achieved by speeding up or slowing down the rate of the tape, while keeping the tape heads moving past the tape at a rate that is identical to the original recording rate. As a given tape head comes into contact and is rotated away from the tape, the output signal from that given head will fade in and out, which results in a natural cross-fading of pitch shifted segments.

I remember theses machines from my old college EM classes. The ones mentioned there were of German origin and had the typically wild sounding (to non Germans of course) multi-sylable german name that I don't remember. Sort of like the rotating heads of a Video recorder only not helical and with a varispeed transport.

I actually believe this was a French invention which was named the Phonogene (and yes the Makenoise Phonogene was named after this). Working with multiple tapeheads on a rotating spool. It was used in the studio where Pierre Schaeffer and his lot did their thing. I actually saw one a few years ago in the depot of a museum in The Hague, The Netherlands gathering dust... sad sad sad..
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Post by DerHeinrich » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:18 am

HwK's comment mentions it in his comment under the blog post
http://valhalladsp.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... e-digital/

The Dutch guy building his own mentioned by HwK is actually a friend of mine
:lol:
And I have actually seen his prototype at the time..
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Post by kao:be. » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:57 am

exper wrote:I'd wait to see what Harvestman's granular module will be like. His modules are always great.
do you know more then us? :D
I mean we are waiting for this module for 3 years or even more and we still don't know anything specific about it. Maybe next year, maybe after next year, maybe never... If I would need time stretching which -apparently- can be achieved with other modules as well I would not even think about waiting for such an uncertain thing... and I don't think you would do.
so I ask it again: do you know more then us? :D
Last edited by kao:be. on Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by kao:be. » Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:58 am

double

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Duplan
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Post by Duplan » Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:30 am

Thanks Tommaso for the video ! (reposting it cause your link didnt work)


[video][/video]

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Post by Paranormal Patroler » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:00 am

Well, the TS does the above really easily.
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Post by tommaso » Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:39 am

Duplan wrote:Thanks Tommaso for the video ! (reposting it cause your link didnt work)


[video][/video]
thank you! I'm always in trouble when I have to embed something :sadbanana:

btw the only thing to consider in this video is the a147 lfo clocking the gene shift. the rest of cables into the phonogene are not use in this example.

you can for sure get better result then my video if you carefully chose the size of the genes and manipulating a high resolution sample ( I recorded that guitar @ minimum fidelity possible with the phonogene :deadbanana:

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