What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

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3hands
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by 3hands » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 am

Dragonaut wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:54 pm

Maybe 3hands is right. If I’m going to be so finicky I should just wait up to a year and a half to see my purchase fulfilled. Silly me for thinking paying 50 percent more than retail should entitle me to a sound purchase.
Cute but no.

If I was paying 50 percent more than retail, I would have requested pictures UP FRONT. It’s used. And you’re paying 600 dollars for it. Why did this not happen?

Secondly, to then purchase a module, again at 50 percent over retail, and when you finally DO see pictures of it (not even from the person you’re buying it from), you’re unhappy, and it’s everyone else’s fault but yours. And then to whine about the problem YOU created by not requesting pictures BEFORE you plunked down (I will say it again) 50 percent more than retail...

Clearly, you were either extremely confident in this purchase (and this the seller), or extremely foolish.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:10 pm

What a shame ... a $400 module that looks like ass after less than a few years of service. I would think that if the manufacturer is even the slightest bit concerned about what their legacy will look like after just a few years they'd not even consider the use of fiberglass as a material for the control panel. I've got fifteen year old Doepfers that look far better than that. That is what happens when you put a matte black finish on a fiberglass panel that has (what appears to be) a gold plating of sorts beneath the easily scratched/damaged matte black finish. Hard anodized aluminum panels hold their youthful look far longer. Now, $600 bucks for a used one? Pfft ... that's just prestige getting the best of the buyer. $300 went towards the used value of that module, the other $300 went to fulfilling the need for a prestige item. The person that sold it for $600 bucks knew precisely ~who~ he/she was aiming their marketing at, and they hooked exactly who they were aiming for.

Gonna take a long time with a lot of elbow grease to polish that $600 turd. I wouldn't be bothered by it's looks as long as it is 100% functional. Then again I would not have paid $600 bucks for it either, my upper end on such a used module would be $300 or so, which is actually a bit generous to be honest. $275 is more like it.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by uniquepersonno2 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:27 pm

Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:10 pm
What a shame ... a $400 module that looks like ass after less than a few years of service. I would think that if the manufacturer is even the slightest bit concerned about what their legacy will look like after just a few years they'd not even consider the use of fiberglass as a material for the control panel. I've got fifteen year old Doepfers that look far better than that. That is what happens when you put a matte black finish on a fiberglass panel that has (what appears to be) a gold plating of sorts beneath the easily scratched/damaged matte black finish. Hard anodized aluminum panels hold their youthful look far longer.
I've had a Natural Gate in my system since mid-2018 (I think I bought it from the second production run). It looks as good as it did the day I bought it. I'd say this particular unit has seen quite a bit of wear with a bit less care than some would say is deserved, if my unit is a comparison. I don't think this is on Rabid Elephant.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by brandonlogic » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:35 pm

uniquepersonno2 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:27 pm
Rex Coil 7 wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:10 pm
What a shame ... a $400 module that looks like ass after less than a few years of service. I would think that if the manufacturer is even the slightest bit concerned about what their legacy will look like after just a few years they'd not even consider the use of fiberglass as a material for the control panel. I've got fifteen year old Doepfers that look far better than that. That is what happens when you put a matte black finish on a fiberglass panel that has (what appears to be) a gold plating of sorts beneath the easily scratched/damaged matte black finish. Hard anodized aluminum panels hold their youthful look far longer.
I've had a Natural Gate in my system since mid-2018 (I think I bought it from the second production run). It looks as good as it did the day I bought it. I'd say this particular unit has seen quite a bit of wear with a bit less care than some would say is deserved, if my unit is a comparison. I don't think this is on Rabid Elephant.
Same here, I’ve had it that long too and have got heave use from it and mine is spotless.

I still think it matches the very good description though. It’s not like they said ‘excellent’ or ‘mint’ condition.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by minatorymodular » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:21 pm

Does it still make sound? Is its core functionality otherwise impaired? Some people pay a premium for "relic" guitars---guitars that come out of the factory with fake wear and tear. Likewise the fad of pre-ripped jeans.

Not sure I see the issue.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Dragonaut » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:39 pm

3hands wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 am
blah, blah, blah
You strike me as a guy who really enjoys talking tough on chat boards.

Look ya’ll. I’ve bought a lot of modules in very good condition and when I got them they looked very good and I could tell they had been operated with consideration to their value. One look at this module indicates the opposite and this is even the photo that the owner before this seller took so lol.

If you don’t think the condition of this faceplate belies abnormal wear and tear on the knobs, sliders and jacks (at least) then I’m pretty sure wouldn’t be any good at assessing the condition of any piece of gear.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Dragonaut » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:38 pm

I’m surprised by how few people actually support my point here considering how other NGs look out in the wild, how particular the eurorack crowd can be (usually) and we’ve all been young at some point and know how careless we were with our gear in our early years. Maybe I’m crazy but to call something in this condition very good is an affront to the English language.

Anyways, I mainly posted this for entertainment purposes so I hope some of you were. I always pay with PayPal so not usually too worried about stuff like this and in any case the seller has agreed to return my cash and pay for the return shipping as well.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by 3hands » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:18 pm

Dragonaut wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:39 pm
3hands wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:52 am
blah, blah, blah
You strike me as a guy who really enjoys talking tough on chat boards.

Look ya’ll. I’ve bought a lot of modules in very good condition and when I got them they looked very good and I could tell they had been operated with consideration to their value. One look at this module indicates the opposite and this is even the photo that the owner before this seller took so lol.

If you don’t think the condition of this faceplate belies abnormal wear and tear on the knobs, sliders and jacks (at least) then I’m pretty sure wouldn’t be any good at assessing the condition of any piece of gear.
You strike me as a guy who refuses to take responsibility for being clueless.

Im done with this thread, it’s a trainwreck.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Arneb » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:11 am

Dragonaut wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:38 pm
Maybe I’m crazy but to call something in this condition very good is an affront to the English language.
Well, yes, but all sale descriptions are. I'm still not entirely convinced that "mint" is a real word.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Zymos » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:58 am

Of course it’s a real word- “Mint condition” comes from coin collecting, as in, appears as if just left the mint.

But it’s misapplied all the time...

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Yes Powder » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:52 am

Considering Reverb's scale, I'd call it "very good."
It's obviously not Brand New/B-Stock, doesn't reach "Mint" or "Excellent" quality, but it's not quite visually beat up enough for "Good", and the fact that it's still fully functional puts "Fair" right out.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by cackland » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:55 am

Maybe reach out to RE and see if they are willing to sell you a new faceplate, if they have any spare

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by mskala » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 am

Zymos wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:58 am
Of course it’s a real word- “Mint condition” comes from coin collecting, as in, appears as if just left the mint.
There can be important technicalities with this sort of thing, too. I recently had occasion to try to estimate the value of some vintage baseball cards - not a hobby I'm involved in myself - and when I did the research I learned that because of the variability in the printing process, collectors value cards more that were printed unusually well, and so even a card that is perfectly preserved from 40 years ago and never touched may not be "mint" to a collector of such things, or at least not the best kind of "mint," because only the few cards that happened to come off of the press looking much better than average will qualify.

Things like that make it important for marketplaces to have agreed, published definitions of what the grading terms mean - as Reverb apparently does, so good on them. Customers can't depend on the vague meanings of these words in ordinary language.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by batch » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:35 am

The issue is that the NG in the photo has Davis knobs on the pots for the open slide CV whereas a NG doesn’t. They are normally just little black ones like on the Decay ones above.

The person who listed this on Reverb was actually pretty clear about this so they are not at fault. That why it was so “cheap”.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Dragonaut » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:33 am

The knobs are kind of the big issue for me here since they can’t be returned to their original state without a high risk of damaging the module. I’m not sure it can be repaired and the faceplate can’t be replaced without taking off those knobs which the previous owner was afraid to take off because they’re on there to tight.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Nutritional Zero » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 pm

Gaslighting Rabid Elephant or Rabid Elephant users is fine in my books.

Full disclosure: I may have expressed an interest in this module in its own thread, but I recently had an epiphany where I realized it’s 2020, snake oil is everywhere, and nerds should no longer be “self-organizing nodes,” they should have a managerial type who counts the beans, cracks the whip, and sets boundaries for the project. There’s something to the hierarchical Japanese corporate model which produced all those synthesizers most of us probably grew up fetishizing and probably none of us would be here if Japanese engineers didn’t have a slightly damp salaryman in a cheap suit to answer to.

À bas les technocrates.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by VibratingMotorGate » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:30 pm

These people should be blacklisted and excommunicated entirely. $600 is already an egregious offense for a dual lpg, but a completely used-up module selling as 'very good condition' for that price? disgusting. I'm already very weary of the eurorack business practices going on (from obscenely overpriced cables, to overpriced modules using cheap parts) and it frankly steers me away, so this not a good look. Behringer could probably end this whole charade tomorrow if they wanted (at least they're lighting some fires). Anyways... your dose of rational cynicism.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by TheMantle » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:47 pm

Nutritional Zero wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 pm
Gaslighting Rabid Elephant or Rabid Elephant users is fine in my books.

Full disclosure: I may have expressed an interest in this module in its own thread, but I recently had an epiphany where I realized it’s 2020, snake oil is everywhere, and nerds should no longer be “self-organizing nodes,” they should have a managerial type who counts the beans, cracks the whip, and sets boundaries for the project. There’s something to the hierarchical Japanese corporate model which produced all those synthesizers most of us probably grew up fetishizing and probably none of us would be here if Japanese engineers didn’t have a slightly damp salaryman in a cheap suit to answer to.

À bas les technocrates.
Are you arguing that independent small companies should not exist or at least should not be in the synthesizer business? You do realize Eurorack as a whole is extremely reliant on those companies? Why are you singling out Rapid Elephant? Is it because as a small company they can't quite meet demand?
I really want to understand.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by VibratingMotorGate » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:08 pm

TheMantle wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:47 pm
Nutritional Zero wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:53 pm
Gaslighting Rabid Elephant or Rabid Elephant users is fine in my books.

Full disclosure: I may have expressed an interest in this module in its own thread, but I recently had an epiphany where I realized it’s 2020, snake oil is everywhere, and nerds should no longer be “self-organizing nodes,” they should have a managerial type who counts the beans, cracks the whip, and sets boundaries for the project. There’s something to the hierarchical Japanese corporate model which produced all those synthesizers most of us probably grew up fetishizing and probably none of us would be here if Japanese engineers didn’t have a slightly damp salaryman in a cheap suit to answer to.

À bas les technocrates.
Are you arguing that independent small companies should not exist or at least should not be in the synthesizer business? You do realize Eurorack as a whole is extremely reliant on those companies? Why are you singling out Rapid Elephant? Is it because as a small company they can't quite meet demand?
I really want to understand.

Behringer would like nothing more than to watch all these smaller companies flounder away as atomized entities, than to organize themselves into larger and more efficient business structures with larger industrial capacities. And these smaller manufacturers would rather not have to manufacture and package more, because that would require fundamental change and larger capital influxes. They talk about reaching the masses, but it rings hollow. Either merge with other smaller manufacturers/brands to afford better assembly equipment to meet/create demand, or be left in the dust. They've already made the switch to some kind of automated soldering/printing machinery, so now all that's left to do is lower the price. Lol, this just looks embarrassing to any casual observer.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Arneb » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm

VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:08 pm
Behringer would like nothing more than to watch all these smaller companies flounder away as atomized entities, than to organize themselves into larger and more efficient business structures with larger industrial capacities.
There's absolutely no reason to drag Behringer into this, given that they have never expressed interest in cloning modern gear. Their shtick is to clone '80s stuff for which patents are expired. A Batural Gate, Bejman BMMF-4 or Birklon won't happen.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by VibratingMotorGate » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:18 pm

Arneb wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm
VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:08 pm
Behringer would like nothing more than to watch all these smaller companies flounder away as atomized entities, than to organize themselves into larger and more efficient business structures with larger industrial capacities.
There's absolutely no reason to drag Behringer into this, given that they have never expressed interest in cloning modern gear. Their shtick is to clone '80s stuff for which patents are expired. A Batural Gate, Bejman BMMF-4 or Birklon won't happen.
I am commending Behringer for their work. They're the ones bringing eurorack to the masses. They're packing $80 modules with 6 times the functionality of an intellijel 1U module, THAT is what is laughable to me: the price differential.

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by target_destroyed » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:08 pm

VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:18 pm
Arneb wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:42 pm
VibratingMotorGate wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:08 pm
Behringer would like nothing more than to watch all these smaller companies flounder away as atomized entities, than to organize themselves into larger and more efficient business structures with larger industrial capacities.
There's absolutely no reason to drag Behringer into this, given that they have never expressed interest in cloning modern gear. Their shtick is to clone '80s stuff for which patents are expired. A Batural Gate, Bejman BMMF-4 or Birklon won't happen.
I am commending Behringer for their work. They're the ones bringing eurorack to the masses. They're packing $80 modules with 6 times the functionality of an intellijel 1U module, THAT is what is laughable to me: the price differential.
I'm not sure what's laughable about basic economics. Behringer has many times the resources available to them compared to any euro manufacturer...

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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by B0bcat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:05 pm

:despair: Any chance for y’all to discuss behringer in the behringer threads?
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Pelsea » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:10 pm

Does anyone here remember what a craftsman is?—-nobody?—-Didn’t think so.
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Re: What a used Natural Gate in VG condition looks like

Post by Zymos » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:51 pm

B0bcat wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:05 pm
:despair: Any chance for y’all to discuss behringer in the behringer threads?
Any chance The Borg could not assimilate everyone?
Resistance is futile.

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