Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

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Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by tuj » Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:26 am

(long story, PC banned me after about twenty-thousand dollars of transactions after many years because I dared to criticize them on the internet)

Who besides PC sells the Moon Phase in the USA?

I cannot find it on SynthCube's site, Modular Addict appears to be currently closed. Techno Synth in Canada has it, but it's out of stock and it's listed for a shocking $442 dollars which even converted to USD doesn't make sense at all.

Any thoughts?

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by arthurdent » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:11 am

Not in the USA but Thonk has the full kit for $222.96USD if you're up for some DIY:

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/panda-moon-phase/

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Illwiggle » Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:40 pm

Theres a pretty awesome lil site called modularhaven.com that will do the search for you. It scans for used ads as well

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by closedLoop » Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:21 pm

tuj wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:26 am
(long story, PC banned me after about twenty-thousand dollars of transactions after many years because I dared to criticize them on the internet)
Wow. And yet, I'm somehow not at all surprised PC would do that based on my dealings with them.

I've actually had quicker shipping from the UK to NYC than I've had from Cali to NYC lately, if shipping time is your concern.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by tuj » Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:54 pm

Talked to Patching Panda, said I should go to Techno Synth which obviously makes no sense because I can get it cheaper from Germany which is stupid.

Patching Panda doesn't do direct sales. Funny you get all excited to drop some dough on a module and then you can't even get it...

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Naenyn » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:14 am

Illwiggle wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:40 pm
Theres a pretty awesome lil site called modularhaven.com that will do the search for you. It scans for used ads as well
Not to hijack this thread, but thanks for this. There’s also wigglehunt.com as well.
-n :ninja:

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Illwiggle » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:35 pm

Naenyn wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:14 am
Illwiggle wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:40 pm
Theres a pretty awesome lil site called modularhaven.com that will do the search for you. It scans for used ads as well
Not to hijack this thread, but thanks for this. There’s also wigglehunt.com as well.
Hah! Nice, I didnt know about Wigglehunt

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by BlinkyLights » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:11 pm

tuj wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:26 am
(long story, PC banned me after about twenty-thousand dollars of transactions after many years because I dared to criticize them on the internet)
Damn. Got a link?

Quite curious what it takes to elicit that response.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by tumblz » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:33 pm

:foul: :slapfight:

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by gloamtrotter » Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:54 pm

Illwiggle wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:40 pm
Theres a pretty awesome lil site called modularhaven.com that will do the search for you. It scans for used ads as well
nice, that is pretty awesome :tu:

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by yarderyyz » Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:43 pm

fwiw, if its Techno Synth in Montreal they suggested the price is in Canadian. So after conversion its only about $20-30 more than ordering from schneidersladen.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Funky40 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm

arthurdent wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 10:11 am
Not in the USA but Thonk has the full kit for $222.96USD if you're up for some DIY:

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/panda-moon-phase/
yes, thanks. i never heard of the moon phase bevore this thread, now i have a kit on order ;)

the kit seems a easy build, since the smd pcb is allready made. just to say




tuj wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:26 am
(.......... because I dared to criticize them on the internet)
PC has changed btw. their i-net shop habit !
i could easily imagine that it was due to your thread here.......that might have also caused a further thematisation of that "issue" elsewhere.

"coming soon" was indeed a trap ! i stepped in once...........but got my stuff finally ( after 6 months )


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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by tuj » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:23 am

Funky40 wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:58 pm
tuj wrote:
Sun Aug 30, 2020 6:26 am
(.......... because I dared to criticize them on the internet)
PC has changed btw. i could easily imagine that it was due to your thread here...
No it was on Reddit, which I actually took down because I got so much shit over it. Then a few months later I tried placing an order with PC and they silently cancelled my order. I here a guy in my town had his module show up so I look at my order status on their website; it says 'order not found'.

Several emails over several days were sent; none were replied to. After I week I called the PC store in Burbank and spoke to an employee, gave him my order number, and asked him what the deal was. He told me that my order was cancelled by management. I asked why and he said he couldn't tell me. I asked to speak to management and he said they weren't in but would get back to me. A few days later I got an email from Tati stating that she had cancelled my order because of a comment I made about their pre-order practices.

Note this was months after the original post. The original post had been taken down like 2 days after it went up. I was trying to move on. They were apparently not willing, UNLESS, as Tati specified, I agreed to never publicly criticize them again. That was the T&C of resuming business with them.

Literally I spent tens of thousands of dollars with PC since I think 2007 or 2008. Apparently that does not matter to them, they are happy to be the gorilla in the room and squash people into submission like some kind of modular Putin. I'm surprised my modules I get nowadays aren't covered in Novachok.

Image

Image

As for the Moon module, I ordered it from Scheiderladen. Cost me $30 more to deal with an ethical company and it will be here today which is amazing fast, probably faster than PC.

EDIT: BTW unless I am not clear here, I agree that it is totally within PC's rights to pick and choose who they want to deal with as they are a private business. It's also within my rights to complain publicly about bad service, especially after I have complained privately multiple times to no avail. This is the equivalent of a long-timer at a bar being banned one day because he said the drink mix was lousy on Yelp. Sure, you can do it legally, but it doesn't absolve you from being a prick and bad at business. The cost of dealing with me, which is not high, was easily outweighed by my account history but those types of calculations don't figure into their logic. As far as I can tell, they were purely vindictive in this case as I've never heard of this happening to anyone else.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Richard deHove » Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:58 am

tuj wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:23 am
The original post had been taken down like 2 days after it went up. I was trying to move on. They were apparently not willing, UNLESS, as Tati specified, I agreed to never publicly criticize them again. That was the T&C of resuming business with them.
:woah:

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by luupp » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:10 am

That's quite insane that they would ban someone for that. Wondering for how long a business could operate with this mentality....

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by minatorymodular » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:12 am

Sounds like a typical small business tyrant. There's many of those among us. And I doubt it will in any way impact their profits.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by tuj » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:37 am

luupp wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:10 am
That's quite insane that they would ban someone for that. Wondering for how long a business could operate with this mentality....
You know, there's bound to be consolidation amongst the modular shops at some point, as it looks to be happening already in some ways. PC consistently has a 10% sale of some kind and switched to free shipping, so they're running the lowest margins, have the biggest footprint (reverb, eBay, google), and have become a lot of people's default choice now. I can see why in this the age of consumerism and fungible electronics.

They'll keep operating for a long time because the have a lot of capital behind them, more than the other guys. Much more. Their objective IMHO is to pull a 'Walmart'/'Amazon' on all the other synth stores by discounting the way they do. The other guys can't match it really, which leads to a slow but inevitable end-game at which point all modular orders in the USA are de-facto PC orders. Makers won't bother to distribute to anyone else or sell direct (which you see from Patching Panda...won't do either), so not only will they stay in business, I'd wager in 10 years they are one of four remaining modular stores in the USA.

TBH if I'm going to buy from PC (which I obviously can't do anyway), and I'm not in LA, it doesn't make a lot of sense to bring a store into the equation at all if you can help it. Buy straight from the maker; that's what I did with VPME and he got more money in the end than if I had bought through PC. What's the point of the store if you just order online from it? The physical business isn't helping you in any way, the staff isn't helping you with questions or anything in this type of transaction, it's purely 'where is the cheapest?' We have that mentality a lot these days.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Richard deHove » Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:58 am

Don't underestimate reputation as a factor. I almost never buy on price alone.

And just to stay on-topic: I have Moonphase and love it. I regard it as a "finishing filter" - last in the chain.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:01 pm

tuj wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:23 am
Cost me $30 more to deal with an ethical company
the company claims they cancelled your order after you defamed them by publishing inaccurate information on the internet regarding how they handle pre-orders. I don't know if the information you published is defamatory but if it is they have a legal and ethical right to refuse service. unethical would be if you continued your tactics of cancel culture and extortion to get what you want. I don't know if you defamed them but I can say that ethics does not mean the world revolves around you. ethics means you don't publish inaccurate information. ethics means you respect a company that is within the legal letter of the law to refuse service and not defame them further by calling such a practice unethical or detrimental to free speech. your free speech ends when you publish inaccurate information about a business that causes losses or damage. if you took the post down that would indicate that it did contain inaccurate information. if you still feel the information you posted about pre-orders is in fact accurate then you have an ethical obligation to leave it open for all to see and not cover it up so that you can get gear from PC when it is clearly cheaper and more convenient for you. to cover up bad business practices so that you can get into the good graces with PC as it enriches you would be the definition of unethical. you have a decision to make, you need to decide if you published accurate information or not. if you made a mistake you should apologize directly to the person you have damaged. this a very simple thing that can be solved easy when you take responsibility and say sorry. or stand your ground and warn people telling your true story about an unethical business practice. if your story is true then we would love to hear it. it is a good thing that we call out businesses that do the wrong thing.
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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by synthcube » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:25 pm

tuj wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:37 am
luupp wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:10 am
That's quite insane that they would ban someone for that. Wondering for how long a business could operate with this mentality....
You know, there's bound to be consolidation amongst the modular shops at some point, as it looks to be happening already in some ways. PC consistently has a 10% sale of some kind and switched to free shipping, so they're running the lowest margins, have the biggest footprint (reverb, eBay, google), and have become a lot of people's default choice now. I can see why in this the age of consumerism and fungible electronics.

They'll keep operating for a long time because the have a lot of capital behind them, more than the other guys. Much more. Their objective IMHO is to pull a 'Walmart'/'Amazon' on all the other synth stores by discounting the way they do. The other guys can't match it really, which leads to a slow but inevitable end-game at which point all modular orders in the USA are de-facto PC orders. Makers won't bother to distribute to anyone else or sell direct (which you see from Patching Panda...won't do either), so not only will they stay in business, I'd wager in 10 years they are one of four remaining modular stores in the USA.

TBH if I'm going to buy from PC (which I obviously can't do anyway), and I'm not in LA, it doesn't make a lot of sense to bring a store into the equation at all if you can help it. Buy straight from the maker; that's what I did with VPME and he got more money in the end than if I had bought through PC. What's the point of the store if you just order online from it? The physical business isn't helping you in any way, the staff isn't helping you with questions or anything in this type of transaction, it's purely 'where is the cheapest?' We have that mentality a lot these days.
We'll keep stocking patching panda and any other DIY friendly makers as long as we possibly can :) -- we just don't have that kit at the moment.
Regarding the above prediction... we will see if the 'amazon on-line only' model really works for modular synth at scale, or (as we expect) the nature of the market will value the right combination of selection, price, service, diy and modular synth knowledge and passion, hands-on touch, in-person support (brick and mortar shop, module demo stations, workshops etc) . A lot of it depends on how and where modular synth enthusiasts choose to spend their discretionary dollars shopping. Frankly I'd rather try to compete against PC, Thonk, MA and a few other 'dedicated' places than to be the backers behind PC trying to compete with Amazon and the like :)
We do a lot of things around here that MBAs tell us we should not do-- stocking older modules in small quantities, buying declining brands and formats, selling ala carte parts, making our kit BOMs publicly available, etc. It's not all about making money. Worst case-- we will go under, and have the world's best modular synth garage to play with until we die... best case, we will grow, thrive, make a little bit of profit, support existing and new makers to expand the space, encourage new people to come in and try modular synths, and have some fun in the process. FWIW.
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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by closedLoop » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:49 pm

FWIW -

The way PC previously handled Pre-Orders was extremely misleading. They seemed to have changed how they list out of stock items very recently. Previously, nearly all out of stock items were listed as "Reserve Yours Today!" as though fresh stock was imminent. I ordered something that was listed that way, and when I called some time later to check on the status, they said they had no idea when it would come in stock again.
They were fine about canceling that order.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by minatorymodular » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:07 pm

Eatyourguitar - in another thread you said that Intellijel's 1U format constituted an unethical monopoly. What are you going on about?

This type of debate, about smaller vs. slightly less small modular shops, it all seems pointless. As long as there's a profitable synth market, the rate of profit will tend to fall as businesses undercut each other. Bigger shops can handle smaller margins. Vote with your dollar if you like. As long as modular as a whole is profitable enough, it won't work. As soon as music retailers fully catch on, there might not even be modular specific shops anymore, except as an extremely expensive niche product like in the past.

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Zymos » Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:42 pm

I slag PC every chance I get, cause they can be pretty sucky, even under my real name on Facebook, and they still haven’t banned me!

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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by Pelsea » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:16 pm

Some morals to this story:
  • Anything you post on the internet is there forever. Even if you take it down immediately, it has probably been copied and will surface again.
  • If you have something to bitch about, stick to verifiable facts. Let the readers form their own opinions.
  • If you are a vender, dealing with jackasses (not referring to anyone here) is part of the job. Just include it in your price structure. Turning down business costs you money and will not change anyone’s behavior.
  • Also, even the most unjustified complaint is probably based on something that really happened. If your site is confusing customers, you are probably losing more business than you realize. An episode like this is an opportunity to improve your business practices.
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Re: Somewhere in USA to buy Patching Panda Moon Phase that isn't PC?

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:40 pm

minatorymodular wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:07 pm
Eatyourguitar - in another thread you said that Intellijel's 1U format constituted an unethical monopoly. What are you going on about?
I did not ever describe intelijel as unethical. This is how defamation starts. You can go back and read what I wrote exactly. You can copy and paste it if you want. I'm not going to hide what I said. I'm not going to go on about it. If anyone wants to read what I actually said they can go read it. It is also permanently on the internet that you are spreading lies about me so I think that reflects on you more than it does me.
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