Patching Between Cases

Cwejman, Livewire, TipTop Audio, Doepfer etc... Get your euro on!

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The Mule
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Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:38 pm

How many of you patch between separate cases, each with its own power supply? I've often thought it might be nice to have a few small Doepfer cases with a few modules in them that I don't use as often, which could be brought out when needed and then put back on the shelf or in the closet without taking space in my main case. Maybe a cool sequencer or something like the Grendel DC-2e. Or a few oddball/extreme filters that I only want to use occasionally. Or a Benjolin. That sort of thing... Are there any issues to watch out for when doing something like that?

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by Kattefjaes » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:40 pm

Other than the odd ground loop if you're careless where you plug the power in, mostly don't trip over the cables.

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by Kent » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:45 pm

Just try it and see now it goes. Depending upon many factors, whilst also being highly hamstrung by the largely amateur grounding schemes in Euro-format, you can see if there are any noise or signal issues.

Nothing to really fear.

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:49 pm

OK, cool. I thought I had read somewhere before that doing this could result in tuning issues. Guess I'll pick up a small Doepfer case and give it a shot! Gracias, amigos.

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by yhf » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:49 pm

I have two Doepfer cases. I treat them as one though, meaning that they are not "main case" and "sub case" but they are always both switched on when I patch.

Either way, as long as you don't exceed either case's power I don't see a problem with what you are trying to do.

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:52 pm

That is good news. Maybe not for my bank account, but for my eurocrack addiction!

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by ATW » Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:18 pm

I'm a frequent multi-case patcher. Currently 2 cases (Mantis + Palette) and often with CV going back/forth between them, including pitch and gates. SQ-1 as well. So far I am not noticing a significant difference in terms of pitch droop, noise, and latency. Each case's power brick goes into the same Isobar Tripp lite, and I believe things are grounded reasonably well — not noticing a hum or much of a noise floor issue at the moment. That said, I haven't thoroughly put it through the paces to check w/ pitch tracking and gate latency.

I would guess that there could be a degree of latency if there are two or more separate bus boards and power supplies for multiple cases. Each case likely has a different power capacity and utilization depending on its respective modules' consumption. If there are two identical cases, each with a similar capacity/utilization ratio, then perhaps that reduces potential latency.

I could see an easy way to test it on a multi-case setup. Mult a reliable external gate signal from an SQ-1, BSP, Elektron device, computer, etc to 2 or more cases with a similar module, like a drum or pingable VCF or something audible with an attack that takes trigs. It would prob be better to mult the signal externally *before* going into the case, to eliminate the possibility of introducing an initial latency/droop within one or both cases. Then compare the resulting transient outputs from both cases to check for any latency. The same process could happen w/ pitch cv. Tune a VCO in both cases so the pitches are perceptibly identical, then check for droop from the multed external CV.

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:13 pm

You might get a bit of a spark, or popping noises, when patching if "0V" isn't close to the same in both cases. I found it helpful to run a fairly thick wire between the chassis or front panels of the two cases when I had one, or just patch something between them before both are turned on.

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:25 pm

starthief wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:13 pm
You might get a bit of a spark, or popping noises, when patching if "0V" isn't close to the same in both cases. I found it helpful to run a fairly thick wire between the chassis or front panels of the two cases when I had one, or just patch something between them before both are turned on.
Whoa... The word "spark" is enough to scare me out of doing this. :zombie:

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by helix » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:28 pm

I wouldn't worry. It's all built to be patchable across cases and even to other formats. I think it's rare there's a problem

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:32 pm

It does seem like I've seen people doing it plenty in videos, etc. I'll give it a shot. But if you don't see anymore posts from me on here, I guess you'll know why. :eek:

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by helix » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:33 pm

I mean... how many pictures have you seen of whole walls full of cases and modules. Loads i'm sure. We all dream....

I doubt people would bother so much if it was so much of a problem!?

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by helix » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:35 pm

IN fact. I have two power supplies within the same DIY case. It's a 168HP case i made that has both a doepfer DIY power supply inside, and a doepfer pSU2. Never had a problem with noise, tuning, or anything. They're both running off the same power outlet.

Happy days. Just go for it, and if there are any rare problems, you know that the guys here will be able to solve it for you! :)

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:38 pm

Either the guys here or the paramedics at least! :hihi:

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by cptnal » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:40 pm

I do it all the time. Not an issue.
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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by Antlerface » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:41 pm

I also have two PSU in the same case, a 15U. An old Doepfer DIY and a Row Power. No problems whatsoever, and I regularly patch between the big case and a Shared System.
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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:48 pm

Cool, thanks guys. :)

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:48 pm

The Mule wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:25 pm
Whoa... The word "spark" is enough to scare me out of doing this. :zombie:
It's a tiny, tiny spark -- much less than the typical static shocks I get through most of the winter (I'm very careful to discharge before touching any gear).

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by helix » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:50 pm

starthief wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:48 pm
The Mule wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:25 pm
Whoa... The word "spark" is enough to scare me out of doing this. :zombie:
(I'm very careful to discharge before touching any gear).


TMI? :hihi:

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:51 pm

starthief wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:48 pm
The Mule wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:25 pm
Whoa... The word "spark" is enough to scare me out of doing this. :zombie:
It's a tiny, tiny spark -- much less than the typical static shocks I get through most of the winter (I'm very careful to discharge before touching any gear).
Understood. Good to know I won't be receiving a lethal jolt!

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by The Mule » Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:51 pm

helix wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:50 pm
starthief wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:48 pm
The Mule wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:25 pm
Whoa... The word "spark" is enough to scare me out of doing this. :zombie:
(I'm very careful to discharge before touching any gear).


TMI? :hihi:
:lol:

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by starthief » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:00 pm

helix wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:50 pm
starthief wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:48 pm
(I'm very careful to discharge before touching any gear).
TMI? :hihi:
Image

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by Rex Coil 7 » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:08 pm

The Mule wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 5:38 pm
Either the guys here or the paramedics at least! :hihi:
Aw git over it ... the worst that can happen is you'll shoot lightning bolts out of yer dick. It only lasts for about week, then it clears up by itself.

Kidding aside, you're seeing a symptom of a problem .... and I'll stop right there. 8-)
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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by Graham Hinton » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:34 pm

The Mule wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:38 pm
Are there any issues to watch out for when doing something like that?
Unbalanced systems have to have a common reference which means that all the 0Vs have to be joined. If you don't do it explicitly then an inferior one will become established through whatever paths exist through cable screens and mains earth wiring. Then you will get mains hums on audio and CVs, the latter sounds like modulation because it is--50 or 60 Hz modulation.
helix wrote:I mean... how many pictures have you seen of whole walls full of cases and modules.
And how many of those have you used and heard? Beware of pictures, you always believe they work perfectly. No-one that spends that much money ever admits they have bought a turkey.
ATW wrote:I would guess that there could be a degree of latency if there are two or more separate bus boards and power supplies for multiple cases.
Latency? Do you know what the word means?

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Re: Patching Between Cases

Post by ATW » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:53 pm

Graham Hinton wrote:
Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:34 pm
Latency? Do you know what the word means?
Sure. In the context of this thread, I've noticed a slight but audible delay in gate timings when using a multed clock source to drive two gate sequencers, each in a separate case. There are many variables, no doubt. I am curious about how multiple power supplies for multiple cases factors into something like this. A better version of that question would be "how can a two+ case system be unified/optimized to preserve the integrity of shared CV signals?"

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