[SPLIT] Alternative Firmware(s) for Mutable Instruments Stages

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jube
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:19 am

qiemem wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 6:05 pm
[...]

Do you think a blinking led would be better? Blinking with red makes a lot of sense, but I'm not sure what to with bipolar holds.

Any UI feedback is really appreciated right now as I'm in the middle of reworking it.
Honestly, I'm not that big on blinking lights, since blinking in my mind indicates a pulse or rhythm. The yellow/orange is made by having both red and green inside the led on right? Might changing the intensity of one of them maybe help out, so dimming the green component?

Or, and this might be a bit of a stretch, if you're contemplating blinking, why not a pattern?
Long color for mode, short blip for polarity (where that makes sense):
1. green _ green .
2. green _ red .
3. orange _ green .
4. orange _ red .
5. red _ green .
6. red _ red .

Looping modes could fade from start of pattern, normal modes an immediate transition.

By the way, what I failed to mention, I'm really happy with having bipolar LFOs now! I was missing that feature within a week of getting the Stages. It makes one of my favourites even better.

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mmmcc666
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by mmmcc666 » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:16 am

Thanks for providing these changes. Bipolar LFOs with a wider frequency ranges on the sliders changes Stages from amazing to amazingly amazing! Much appreciated!

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by pelang » Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:30 am

yes, bipolar is a big plus to stage, thanks !

qiemem
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:30 am

jube wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:19 am
Honestly, I'm not that big on blinking lights, since blinking in my mind indicates a pulse or rhythm. The yellow/orange is made by having both red and green inside the led on right? Might changing the intensity of one of them maybe help out, so dimming the green component?
Fair enough! I can try out changing the components, but I have a feeling relying on changes in brightness (as I was doing) or hue is going to be too subtle to make out.
jube wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:19 am
Or, and this might be a bit of a stretch, if you're contemplating blinking, why not a pattern?
Long color for mode, short blip for polarity (where that makes sense):
1. green _ green .
2. green _ red .
3. orange _ green .
4. orange _ red .
5. red _ green .
6. red _ red .

Looping modes could fade from start of pattern, normal modes an immediate transition.
This could work pretty well! In particular, the solid color heavily implies "you're still in this mode". People already have a hard time remembering which color is which type. Pure blinking as I was suggesting would probably just make that worse. I'll try this out and see how it works! Thanks for the idea!
jube wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:19 am
By the way, what I failed to mention, I'm really happy with having bipolar LFOs now! I was missing that feature within a week of getting the Stages. It makes one of my favourites even better.
Great to hear! Glad it's working well for you!

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:35 am

qiemem wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:30 am
This could work pretty well! In particular, the solid color heavily implies "you're still in this mode". People already have a hard time remembering which color is which type. Pure blinking as I was suggesting would probably just make that worse. I'll try this out and see how it works! Thanks for the idea!
You're welcome! Let's hope that it works in practice :-)
Last edited by jube on Sun Jul 26, 2020 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

qiemem
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:54 am

mmmcc666 wrote:
Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:16 am
Thanks for providing these changes. Bipolar LFOs with a wider frequency ranges on the sliders changes Stages from amazing to amazingly amazing! Much appreciated!
Great to hear! Thanks for trying it out!

After playing with it for a few more days, I think I might have a been a bit overzealous with slider range; even slight nudges have pretty huge impacts. In the development version, I've already changed the low-end from 8 min to 1 min (so, same low-end as joe's, but original high end). I'm planning on changing it so that you can set the segment range per segment. I'd use the same ranges as Tides': 2 min to 2hz, 0.125hz to 32hz (Stages' current default), and 2hz to 2khz. You'd change by holding the button and then moving the slider to bottom, middle, or top (if you don't move the slider, the hold would change loop status). Speed of fade would then show which range you're in. The advantages of this method are that you can more easily dial in particular frequencies while getting even a wider range than now. You could also get even periods of several hours through cv this way. And you can use it more easily as a voice (which I've been doing a lot more since adding bipolar). Finally, it could be then accessed from the normal stages mode, which means the slow lfo mode slot could become something else.

The downside is that you can't just swing from one extreme to another as easily (though still could with bipolar CV). What do you think?

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:31 pm

I've got a new version of the firmware ready! :party: In addition to adding bipolar LFOs and ramp re-trigger control, it now adds the following:
  • Independent LFO (clocked and free) range control for each segment. For free-running, ranges are the same as Tides: 2 min to 2hz at the slowest, 0.125hz to 32hz (default and Stages' original range), and 8hz to about 2khz at the fastest (which means you can easily use segments as variable shape VCOs!). As with the original Stages and Tides, this range is further expanded by CV. For clocked, ranges are: 1/8 to 1 in low, 1/4 to 4 by default (as in original Stages), 1 to 8x in high. Hold the segment's button and move its slider to change LFO frequency range. LFO range is indicated by the speed of the mode indicator LED's cycle. Note: artifacts appear at high frequencies depending on wave shape. Frequency has been capped at 7khz (A8) as the module acts very strangely after that...
  • Arbitrarily slow clocked LFOs. Previously, clocked LFOs in Stages had a reset timeout at about 5 seconds; now, the reset timeout adapts to the clock cycle, allowing for arbitrarily slow clocked LFOs (logic taken from Tides 2).
  • Track & hold. While you can get track & hold with the original Stages, it takes 3 segments to do so. Now, a single, looping, gated step (orange) segment will track & hold. Single, non-looping, gated step segments still sample & hold.
Furthermore, given the number of people that mentioned Stages was already plenty complicated, I changed the UI so that it stays out of your way until you need one of the new features. So, on that note, you now hold a segment's button and turn it pot to the right to make a segment bipolar; left for unipolar (or cycle segment type). Ditto for ramp re-trigger control. This way, it behaves almost exactly like the original Stages unless you explicitly want one of the new features. The downside is you need two hands to enable bipolar mode, which is definitely a downside. I debated between a bunch of different UI mechanisms, and am pretty happy with it, but feedback very welcome.

Also, because the dimmed LEDs were pretty hard to distinguish, now bipolar segments will flash a dim red about once per second instead. I've definitely found this easier to see, but let me know what you think!

For an easy reference, the control scheme is:
  • Hold button and turn pot right: bipolar mode (ramps block re-trigger)
  • Hold button and turn pot left: unipolar mode (ramps re-trigger)
  • Hold button and move slider to the top (on an LFO segment): fast LFO range
  • Hold button and move slider to the middle (on an LFO segment): medium (defualt) LFO range
  • Hold button and move slider to the bottom (on an LFO segment): slow LFO range
Once controls are settled, I'll try to make a nicer reference sheet for this firmware in general.

A few more details about the control scheme: holding a segment's button while moving the slider or pot will disable loop mode changes or multi-mode changes, so you don't need to worry about holding the button for too long. Also changes to polarity/lfo range won't occur unless you move the setting's respective control; thus, you won't accidentally change the range on an LFO while changing it's polarity unless you move the slider. If the slider/pot is already in the position of the setting you want, simply wiggle it to one side and then back into the desired setting while the button is held. You should be able to see when the changes take effect. After you release the button, you can then use the pot/slider as normal.

One other change: I changed slow-LFO mode back to joe's original 8x slowdown; this works with the new range selector, so you can now intermix crazy slow LFOs (16 min!) with pretty fast ones. That said, there's a good chance I'll drop this mode altogether to make room for something else since the selectable LFO range pretty much covers this.

Planned improvements
  • Digital noise creeps into the oscillators after like 2khz-3khz, and they straight up stop functioning after 7 (which is why I put a cap on it). I'm still trying to figure out the key differences with the Ouroboros oscillators, but I'd like to improve the high-end behavior. That said, the artifacts can sound kinda cool.
  • Turing Machine segments are still on a branch. I'm currently thinking I'll add them behind a separate mode (maybe replace slow LFO mode with a TM-enabled mode).
  • Have plans for a mode with a bunch of interconnected modulation sources that can range from related LFOs to controllable chaos...
Download

You can find the latest release here (also attached): https://github.com/qiemem/eurorack/releases/latest

IMPORTANT: Installation will clear the module settings if coming from a different firmware or the previous version. Right after updating, Stages may continuously cycle between green, orange, and red LEDs. Turning the module off and on again should restore functionality. This happens because this fork expands the amount of data stored for each segment, so will be incompatible with the settings stored from a different firmware. If you encounter problems, please let me know, either in a GitHub issue or here.
Attachments
stages-bipolar-v1.0.0-beta3.wav
(5.47 MiB) Downloaded 4 times
Last edited by qiemem on Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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gelabs
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by gelabs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:01 am

Hold button and turn pot right: bipolar mode (ramps block re-trigger)
Hold button and turn pot right: unipolar mode (ramps re-trigger)
:deadbanana:

But seriously, amazing work ! ;)
The planet was, I realized, one of the spots before my eyes.
sc - bc - yt - mg

qiemem
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:08 am

gelabs wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:01 am
Hold button and turn pot right: bipolar mode (ramps block re-trigger)
Hold button and turn pot right: unipolar mode (ramps re-trigger)
:deadbanana:

But seriously, amazing work ! ;)
Oh ha! Thanks! Fixed :)

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by autopoiesis » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:11 am

seriously amazing work here. guess I will need to buy back a Stages now ...

jube
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:20 am

Shame I can’t try it out atm. On holiday with synth but without a sound source on which I can play the wav :doh:

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:20 pm

I’ve updated my stages using someone’s phone. Mode selection works quite well! However after a while it seems to misbehave and outputs a constant 5v on outputs 1,2, 5 and 6.
Last edited by jube on Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by gelabs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:30 pm

Didn't have the above bug, but I noticed that if you select fast or slow mode for an LFO and activate another one then the first one is reset to default speed. Edit : All of the others actually, it happens when you select or deselect LFO mode for a segment.
The planet was, I realized, one of the spots before my eyes.
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:59 pm

jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:20 pm
I’ve updated my stages using someone’s phone. Mode selection works quite well! However after a while it seems to misbehave and outputs a constant 5v on outputs 1,2, 5 and 6.
Hmm... interesting. What segment types does this happen with? Polarity/frequency range states? How long does it take to happen? Does messing inputs cause it resume normal behavior or does it stay like that until reboot? I would appreciate any information you can provide. A picture of it happening and basic info about what's feeding into CV and gates would be wonderful if you can.

The only related thing I've seen is that, when LFOs hit frequencies > 7khz, they would tend to just output a constant -5v, or the frequency would start responding weirdly to the slider. Even bringing the frequency back down, it would tend to stay like that, but then eventually resume normal behavior. This is why I disabled high frequencies.

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:02 pm

gelabs wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:30 pm
Didn't have the above bug, but I noticed that if you select fast or slow mode for an LFO and activate another one then the first one is reset to default speed. Edit : All of the others actually, it happens when you select or deselect LFO mode for a segment.
Ooh good catch. Thanks! Fix is up (and attached): https://github.com/qiemem/eurorack/releases/latest
Attachments
stages-bipolar-v1.0.0-beta3.wav
(5.47 MiB) Downloaded 7 times

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gelabs
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by gelabs » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:34 pm

Woah, that was fast ! :tu:
The planet was, I realized, one of the spots before my eyes.
sc - bc - yt - mg

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by lilskullymane » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:35 pm

wow, have been using factory stages quite happily for a few months now but these betas are looking insane. is the update still done with the official firmware update procedure?

jube
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:50 pm

qiemem wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:59 pm
jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:20 pm
I’ve updated my stages using someone’s phone. Mode selection works quite well! However after a while it seems to misbehave and outputs a constant 5v on outputs 1,2, 5 and 6.
Hmm... interesting. What segment types does this happen with? Polarity/frequency range states? How long does it take to happen? Does messing inputs cause it resume normal behavior or does it stay like that until reboot? I would appreciate any information you can provide. A picture of it happening and basic info about what's feeding into CV and gates would be wonderful if you can.

The only related thing I've seen is that, when LFOs hit frequencies > 7khz, they would tend to just output a constant -5v, or the frequency would start responding weirdly to the slider. Even bringing the frequency back down, it would tend to stay like that, but then eventually resume normal behavior. This is why I disabled high frequencies.
I had a free running bipolar lfo on 1 and single stage envelopes on 5 and 6. It happened after a couple of minutes I think. Disconnecting everything and power cycling fixed it only after a couple of tries. Module seems to be responsive, top leds and sliders UI feedback maintains expected behavior. But bottom leds of 1, 2, 5 and 6 are stuck on bright green.

I’ll try to make a video when it happens again!

qiemem
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:59 pm

lilskullymane wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:35 pm
wow, have been using factory stages quite happily for a few months now but these betas are looking insane. is the update still done with the official firmware update procedure?
It is! https://mutable-instruments.net/modules ... /#firmware

One caveat: you will probably have to restart the module whenever you switch between this firmware and another firmware. Seems like it needs a manual restart to clear out incompatible settings. That should only be necessary on first update though; after that, you shouldn't need to manually restart.

Thanks for the interest!

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:20 pm

jube wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:50 pm
I had a free running bipolar lfo on 1 and single stage envelopes on 5 and 6. It happened after a couple of minutes I think. Disconnecting everything and power cycling fixed it only after a couple of tries. Module seems to be responsive, top leds and sliders UI feedback maintains expected behavior. But bottom leds of 1, 2, 5 and 6 are stuck on bright green.

I’ll try to make a video when it happens again!
You had to power cycle several times?! Whoa that's pretty weird. Thank you for the information! A video would very much be appreciated. Just in case had you changed anything right before it happened? Looping status? Gate inputs?

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by qiemem » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:22 pm

gelabs wrote:
Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:34 pm
Woah, that was fast ! :tu:
Advantages of working from home :banana: Also it was a two line fix. :P

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:28 pm

After starting up it seems to be stuck still. The responsiveness I mentioned previously does not seem to apply anymore.

Here it is with a free running lfo on 1 and a envelope on 6. Scope on O_c is stuck on 6.67V (so I’m guessing +8V from Stages)
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0g7T3hZ ... zir2HnxX7g

Here it is running a sequencer, same 6.67V on every step.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0jLp8VP ... -s4aPUMOvw

I also tried the harmonic oscillator, same output. I’m gonna take a break. Hope this helps!

jube
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:32 pm

I’ve moved it to another spot in my case, with another cable and it seems to hold out longer now :hmm:

Will let you know when weird behavior returns

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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by hawkfuzz » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:49 pm

What case do you have?
THUMPR BC SC

jube
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Re: Mutable Instruments Stages

Post by jube » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:08 pm

My power is a Tiptop uZeus, seems to be holding up for 30 minutes now. Maybe the busboards are not evenly stressed? Might be my fault, but I haven’t seen this with original firmware yet.
Last edited by jube on Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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