Functions

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hawklord2112
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Functions

Post by hawklord2112 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:38 am

i will start with a confession.
for all the :goo: under my name i've never owned a MATHS.
when i first got here they were lightning bolted menaces and i didn't understand the idea.
now they're a bit more sane and voted the must have module.

I'm running out of space and looking at options.
as far as i can see there's
MATHS
FUNCTION
Joranalogue Contour
Befaco Rampage
ALA Tilt
Mutable TIDES
O&C
and probably a bucketload more that i've missed.....

.... and the humble Doepfer A171-2
why does noone talk about the plain grey one as much as the others?
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Re: Functions

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:58 am

I got the WMD mini slew. I should have got the VCS. the mini slew expands the makenoise function with a DC coupled ringmod/VCA. the shape knob is a BOTH kind of thing like an attenuverter for feedback from out to BOTH in. I had the modcan B Dual LFO which is actually a DUSG getting around the license by using a normal jack from EOF to trig in. patching a dead cable to trig in makes it one shot. no switches on the panel. mini slew has a button and an LED. I must be crazy saying I want a feature deleted but if it works then why do we need a button? there are things on this mini slew I need a manual for. totally my fault. but I'm probably not creative enough to use the built in VCA on every patch. I don't think it is an audio VCA. more of a CV tools kind of thing.

MATHS has the min max, the comparator, the attenuverters, the mixer. if you go get some somewhere else you can fake it. maybe even have more modularity for the same HP. you can unload the min max or the comparators when the case is full.
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hawklord2112
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Re: Functions

Post by hawklord2112 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:02 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:58 am
MATHS has the min max, the comparator, the attenuverters, the mixer. if you go get some somewhere else you can fake it. maybe even have more modularity for the same HP. you can unload the min max or the comparators when the case is full.
and therein lies the rub - MATHS has so much more than many of the others.

sigh.

time for more module tetris.
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Re: Functions

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:17 am

hawklord2112 wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:02 am
EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:58 am
MATHS has the min max, the comparator, the attenuverters, the mixer. if you go get some somewhere else you can fake it. maybe even have more modularity for the same HP. you can unload the min max or the comparators when the case is full.
and therein lies the rub - MATHS has so much more than many of the others.

sigh.

time for more module tetris.
when I'm down and out, I delete the mults and attenuators. I get flying mults and attenuators. or I have a passive side car. I can load the LPG and a diode OR combiner in there also. I also have mannekins RIP which is passive. I made a 6U rule for myself. the only way to avoid endless eurorack. MATHS would kill my rack HP.
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hawklord2112
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Re: Functions

Post by hawklord2112 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:32 am

thats a point... i have passives i can offload. Mult, passive mixer, OR combiner and TriAtt... all can go in a boxlet.

thanks for reminding me!
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Re: Functions

Post by LDT » Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:09 pm

I have just been looking into, if there is a way to basicly get Maths is less space. Answer: Not really, without giving up functionality. And since I use pretty much all of Maths, Maths it is.

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Re: Functions

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:27 pm

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diggida
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Re: Functions

Post by diggida » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:44 pm

I've read a lot about Maths on this site and it seems like tons of people try to replace its functionality in a smaller footprint and always end up saying they can't do it in a reasonable way. Personally, I gave a Function and think its great and want to add a Maths to it.

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Re: Functions

Post by pugix » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:52 pm

I've been obsessing about VC slopes again recently.

https://pugix.com/synth/universal-slope-love/

The ones I don't have but want are the Joranalogue Contour 1, and the After Later Audio Tilt. Tilt is only 6hp, easier to fit two of them.

As for the Doepfer A171-2, it's a clone of Ken Stone's VCS. I have two of Ken's VCS in MOTM format. I don't know why the A171-2 isn't more popular, other than just doesn't get the hype.

Make Noise Maths and Function are nice modules. I had a Maths, but contrary to popular opinion, I just didn't like the mixer section. I have the hp and prefer to add those features with other utility modules. I kept a Function.
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TH
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Re: Functions

Post by TH » Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:53 pm

I have a Doepfer A-171-2 VCS, and although one of the main reasons I got it was to match the rest of my all Doepfer rack, I also compared it to many of the other Serge inspired slope generators.

The A-171-2 has attenuverters for the rise/fall CV inputs. Some of the other modules lack dedicated attenuators on CV inputs. The way Make Noise handles it seems especially strange to me, with the rise and fall controls becoming attenuators when CV is plugged in. The output of the A-171-2 is normalled back into the CV inputs which allows you to adjust the curves of the rise and fall independently with the attenuverters, and there are two switches to defeat the normalling for linear slopes. Some others have a single curve control which doesn't always allow a classic RC curve without patching, but they also allow changing the curve and using the CV inputs simultaneously.


The Make Noise Maths has a lot of functionality which can't easily be duplicated in a similar size or price. I would prefer to have functions such mixers and min/max as separate dedicated modules, but if want a lot of functions in one module, it is hard to beat.

A couple others that aren't on your list are Random*Source and Elby, which are officially licensed with Serge, along with the Doepfer VCS.

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Re: Functions

Post by Schrank » Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:39 am

TH wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:53 pm
The way Make Noise handles it seems especially strange to me, with the rise and fall controls becoming attenuators when CV is plugged in.
That‘s not actually the case. They become bias controls, so they are providing offset.

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Re: Functions

Post by PhineasFreak » Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:13 am

i use the doepfer along with a pair of wmd/ssfSPO's - never failed me yet...

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Re: Functions

Post by stepvhen » Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:01 am

Most of these modules do the same thing, I'm not convinced Maths has anything they don't, other than a mixer/attenuverter section (which I have needed to reach for with my Rampage now and then). They do however each have somehting unique about them (or should). pugix's comparison above is really good for the three modules considered. I haven't found another function module that blocks re-triggers until the fall stage is complete (DUSG), which I think is really the only way to get good subharmonics (if you're into that).

Another one is Frap Tools Falistri; when you morph a slop between log,lin,exp, the timing of the slope doesn't change. So using it as a VCO, you don't get a pitch drift when changing timbre.

It really depends on what you want to use the module for. I could use another slew in my rack since I keep using my Rampage as LFOs/Clocks, I might consider the Doepfer.

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Re: Functions

Post by moremagic » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:07 pm

maths retriggers during the fall but not durimg the rise. idky people repeat that nonsense that it doesnt but it just aint so

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Re: Functions

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:20 pm

moremagic wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:07 pm
maths retriggers during the fall but not durimg the rise. idky people repeat that nonsense that it doesnt but it just aint so
the modcan dual lfo retriggers after EOF. a propper DUSG clock divider. I never owned a real serge but I read the serge manual a long time ago. maybe this is not correct and I'm just making shit up. I don't want to go back to find it now.
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Re: Functions

Post by TH » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:11 pm

Schrank wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:39 am
TH wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:53 pm
The way Make Noise handles it seems especially strange to me, with the rise and fall controls becoming attenuators when CV is plugged in.
That‘s not actually the case. They become bias controls, so they are providing offset.
My mistake, thanks for the correction. I must have been thinking of a different module. So they are just unattenuated, but you can use the two attenuverters in the middle section.

stepvhen wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:01 am
I haven't found another function module that blocks re-triggers until the fall stage is complete (DUSG), which I think is really the only way to get good subharmonics (if you're into that).
The Ken Stone circuit, used by Doepfer and Elby, can be used as a pulse divider. If you send an oscillator into the trigger input along with the 1v/oct into the exponential CV input, it will produce sub-harmonics and track over at least a few octaves before it glitches.

"If a series of triggers are applied to the VCS faster than the total rise and fall times, the module will divide the incoming signal by a whole number. In the audio range the output will be the sub-harmonic series".

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Re: Functions

Post by autopoiesis » Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:23 pm

there is also the newer but not much discussed Cosmotronic Delta V mk2 which brings the essence of the DUSG concept to 10hp. I really want one or two.

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Re: Functions

Post by Paranormal Patroler » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:58 am

Hawklord, you're back!!!
All rights reserved; all wrongs reversed.

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Re: Functions

Post by hawklord2112 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:56 am

Paranormal Patroler wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:58 am
Hawklord, you're back!!!
yyyyyyyyup

thank you!
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Re: Functions

Post by teamhobson » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:22 am

Have you checked out the Ritual Electronics Anima? Slightly less functionality compared to Maths but you do get attenuverters for the CVable parameters. The Anima also comes with the added benefit (if you see it that way) of slope length/time remaining constant when slope shape is modulated.

They are also beautifully made.

Oh and, occult, magick, pheasantry etc etc :evil:

https://www.ritualelectronics.com/products/anima

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Re: Functions

Post by closedLoop » Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:53 am

diggida wrote:
Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:44 pm
I've read a lot about Maths on this site and it seems like tons of people try to replace its functionality in a smaller footprint and always end up saying they can't do it in a reasonable way. Personally, I gave a Function and think its great and want to add a Maths to it.
Completely agree, though I got rid of Maths after a couple of years as my system grew. With dedicated env gens, dedicated slew, dedicated env follower, dedicated offset attenuator, you'll definitely be spending more money, and it will take more rack space, but you do get much, much more functionality because those modules are each purpose built to do one thing really well. It seems like most people keep Maths because it has a relatively unique, 'snappy' envelope generator.

Maths is great for a small systems, but it's like a swiss army knife. Sometimes you need a real pair of scissors.

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Re: Functions

Post by diggida » Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:40 am

Makes sense to me. I only have a function and I like it a lot.

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Re: Functions

Post by hawklord2112 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:07 am

teamhobson wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:22 am
Have you checked out the Ritual Electronics Anima? Slightly less functionality compared to Maths but you do get attenuverters for the CVable parameters. The Anima also comes with the added benefit (if you see it that way) of slope length/time remaining constant when slope shape is modulated.

They are also beautifully made.

Oh and, occult, magick, pheasantry etc etc :evil:

https://www.ritualelectronics.com/products/anima
so.... the MI Segments that i have on my wishlist.... will also do similar?

BTW good call, thats a lovely looking module.
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Re: Functions

Post by pugix » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:47 pm

teamhobson wrote:
Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:22 am
Have you checked out the Ritual Electronics Anima? Slightly less functionality compared to Maths but you do get attenuverters for the CVable parameters. The Anima also comes with the added benefit (if you see it that way) of slope length/time remaining constant when slope shape is modulated.

They are also beautifully made.

Oh and, occult, magick, pheasantry etc etc :evil:

https://www.ritualelectronics.com/products/anima
Looks nice. That's one I didn't know about. Thanks.
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Re: Functions

Post by shize312 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 12:58 pm

Does anyone have a good shout over the DUSG from Random*Source?
Given the large amount of hp, could it be the best function generator even over Maths?

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