Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

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Franktree
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Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Franktree » Thu May 07, 2020 10:10 pm

The title pretty much says it all. I always think it would be nice for the stages in a sequential switch to fade from one to the next, rather than switch abruptly. A sequential switch that allowed this as a setting, like a slew knob--all the way to the left is an abrupt switch, all the way to the right is a very long fade between the two stages, etc. Does anything like that exist? And if it doesn't, is it something you'd be interested in if it did?

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Scolbio » Thu May 07, 2020 10:17 pm

I believe that is an interpolating scanner

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Franktree » Thu May 07, 2020 10:20 pm

Scolbio wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:17 pm
I believe that is an interpolating scanner
Interesting. Are you aware of any examples? Would the Verbos Pan & Scan fall into that category? I guess that's more of just a crossfader--no sequential switching capability, right?

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by nios » Thu May 07, 2020 10:51 pm

What you're describing sounds more than a bit like the Qu-Bit Synapse, only what that does is rotate through four crossfaded sets, advancing them across four outs (one for each xfade pair, as well as having sum and a 1-2 / 3-4). It can also distribute the crossfaded outs randomly and has built-in LFO'ing over the crossfades. I have one and like it; they tend to be cheap second-hand as well.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by nomass » Thu May 07, 2020 10:56 pm

Switches do vary in there clickiness. Some are defintely quieter.

If you’re putting a bunch of audio sources through something like a WMD Sequential Switch Matrix (SSM), you can put the audio through a vca with decay first. This can eat a lot of vcas.

I think the Livestock Electronics Maze has a really fast fade that makes it click-less. I don’t have any Livestock stuff but it seems to be highly regarded.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Franktree » Thu May 07, 2020 11:12 pm

nios wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:51 pm
What you're describing sounds more than a bit like the Qu-Bit Synapse, only what that does is rotate through four crossfaded sets, advancing them across four outs (one for each xfade pair, as well as having sum and a 1-2 / 3-4). It can also distribute the crossfaded outs randomly and has built-in LFO'ing over the crossfades. I have one and like it; they tend to be cheap second-hand as well.
Ya, I've taken a look at the Synapse and it seems cool. But it only crossfades between pairs of inputs, right? And if you want to switch to a different pair, it won't cross fade between those. Is that right?

The module I'm envisioning lets you crossfade between each switched input (or output). But so far, I'm not aware of any such module. I'm not even sure how you'd do it by patching it. Sounds like maybe you could do it with the SSM and a bunch of VCAs?

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by tenshun » Fri May 08, 2020 12:59 am

have you checked out the Antimatter v3kt?

http://www.antimatteraudio.com/modules/v3kt

this module can crossfader through 4 inputs to one output and vice versa and more.

i just picked one up today to try out on my Video
synth rig to cross fade through ramps and send the output to a multiplier.

The demos look really cool because they
show some examples of 4 different audio sources being blended all crazy creating a crazy glitch
song!

Also Brownshoesonly made a video scanner module which i believe could work with audio as well.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Navs » Fri May 08, 2020 1:29 am

Franktree wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:20 pm
Scolbio wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:17 pm
I believe that is an interpolating scanner
Interesting. Are you aware of any examples? Would the Verbos Pan & Scan fall into that category? I guess that's more of just a crossfader--no sequential switching capability, right?

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by RichardC » Fri May 08, 2020 2:39 am

Planar 2 can do 2D cross fading of four channels into one or vice-versa. Moving the joystick in a circle cross fades from one channel to the next. There is CV control of fade position or you can record the joystick movement and play it back in a loop. An advantage of the 2D aspect is that you can do non-sequential cross-fades (ch 1 to ch3 etc). Moving the joystick towards the middle adds all the channels in varying proportions.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri May 08, 2020 6:22 am

I think you can set up a 4:1 crossfading switch with Livestock Electronic’s Maze.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by matcsat » Fri May 08, 2020 6:33 am

Hi,
Franktree wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:10 pm
... it would be nice for the stages in a sequential switch to fade from one to the next, rather than switch abruptly ...
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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Franktree » Fri May 08, 2020 10:47 am

mdoudoroff wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 6:22 am
I think you can set up a 4:1 crossfading switch with Livestock Electronic’s Maze.
I just watched the DivKid video to try to get a handle on the Livestock Electronics Maze. It seems very cool and it looks like it gets very close to what I'm looking for, but maybe not quite there. And I have to say, I'm a little perplexed why the fade functionality on the Maze works the way it does. The Maze has a bunch of mixer matrix "presets' you can set and then you can use a "Select" input to cycle through those presets. You can cycle through with CV or with triggers (like a switch). So far so good.

The Maze also has a "fade" functionality that lets you fade between the presets. But what's strange (if I'm understanding correctly) is that when the fade functionality is turned on, you can only step through the presets via CV, rather than via triggers (like you would with a switch). I don't see any reason why the module needs to be programmed this way. The timing of the fade is controlled by a separate control, so there's no reason I can see why you wouldn't be able to choose between stepping through the presets via CV and stepping through via triggers (like a switch), and then deciding how long you want the fade to be (either not on at all, or at whatever length you set. It seems like it gets so close, but doesn't quite get there, even though it could. Maybe I'm misunderstanding though?

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by mritenburg » Fri May 08, 2020 10:54 am

Makenoise RxMx is a voltage controlled 6:1 interpolating scanner that also has voltage control over the the degree of transition between channels from sharp to smooth.
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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri May 08, 2020 10:59 am

As stated you're looking for a scanner. Synapse would give the most options. It's great and someone recently described it as the Maths of mixer/switches.
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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Franktree » Fri May 08, 2020 11:00 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:59 am
As stated you're looking for a scanner. Synapse would give the most options. It's great and someone recently described it as the Maths of mixer/switches.
But synapse only lets you crossfade between 2 inputs, right? Not between all of them?

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri May 08, 2020 11:06 am

I don’t have a Maze so I can’t really clarify, but there’s thread for the module:
viewtopic.php?t=199666

Another approach—depending on your goals—might be one of these special automation sequencers like Livestock Ellis, PolyEnd Preset, or Shakmat Harlequin’s Context combined with any old mixing VCA.

Re: Synapse, I’ve looked at this one over and over and I just don’t understand the decisions they made with this design. That happens a lot with me and Qu-bit.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by starthief » Fri May 08, 2020 11:07 am

Franktree wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:47 am
The Maze also has a "fade" functionality that lets you fade between the presets. But what's strange (if I'm understanding correctly) is that when the fade functionality is turned on, you can only step through the presets via CV, rather than via triggers (like you would with a switch).
I sold my Maze right before the firmware was updated -- but in the original version, all crossfading was based on time. Stepping through presets with triggers made sense that way. I believe that mode is still available.

If you tie the crossfade amount to CV, of course you have to also selecting the preset with the same CV; there's only the one Select input.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by jwm » Fri May 08, 2020 11:13 am

hawkfuzz wrote:
Fri May 08, 2020 10:59 am
As stated you're looking for a scanner. Synapse would give the most options. It's great and someone recently described it as the Maths of mixer/switches.
yeah that we me, and i stand by it. synapse rips.
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=229657

yes you can only crossfade between two inputs at a time, but/and all 4 pairs of crossfaders his mix output options at the bottom, and output switching is immediate.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by VZvision » Fri May 08, 2020 11:39 am

I would second (or third? I lost count) Qu-Bit synapse. It’s packs in a lot of functionality....and yes each pair sums to its own output but keep in mind that with 8 inputs, you can technically treat each input pair as a VCA either summed in pairs or all summed together if you use 4 inputs.

If patched this way, combined with the inertia setting and the memory slots to save panel controls for the cross-fade positions, I think that would get you where you want.

Additionally self patching with the sequential switch functionality when patched this way means you can change what’s getting cross faded with what while still getting summed outputs from the outputs below...hope that makes sense. :tu:

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by Franktree » Fri May 08, 2020 5:23 pm

Just an update that I connected with Daniel from Livestock Electronics, who seems great. And he explained to me that the Maze does pretty much exactly what I'm looking for. When you move from preset to preset using triggers--so, using it like a sequential switch--there's an overarching "morph" setting, which will crossfade from the one preset to the next. So the Maze might be the winner. And as an added benefit, it's not just a switch, but a matrix mixer too. Bonus!

Of course, if anyone knows of any other modules that almost meet this particular need, let 'em rip!

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by hawkfuzz » Fri May 08, 2020 8:02 pm

Do it! That'll be fun
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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by GryphonP3 » Fri May 08, 2020 11:47 pm

I think what you want is a SLEWED switch. Thats what I want anyway, for the same function that you explain. It would be great to just slap a slew at the output of the switch, but this would slew any stepping voltages, not just the jump between switched voltages. It would need to be done in the digital domain to get this affect. A scanner also would not so this .. a scanner just blends different inputs by various amounts. It can crossfade between many inputs but this isn't the same as a sequential switch (for instance) which only has one output at a time and doesn't jump but rather makes a smooth, slewed transition when it switches.
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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by daphnid » Fri May 08, 2020 11:53 pm

I set up something like this with an SSM going into a WMD Blender. Worked like a charm once I got the timing right for the switching and crossfading. PNW was absolutely crucial in setting it up cleanly and efficiently.

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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by electricanada » Sat May 09, 2020 1:13 am

Doepfer A-135 with A-144.
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Re: Crossfading sequential switch - does it exist?

Post by daphnid » Sat May 09, 2020 1:34 am

electricanada wrote:
Sat May 09, 2020 1:13 am
Doepfer A-135 with A-144.
:lol: Of course. More and more I'm realizing the perfect system is just a wall full of Doepfer. I wish I had more space.

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