Frap Tools Brenso

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nios
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by nios » Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:46 am

For those who wanted to hear it just by itself to get an idea of what it can do, I threw together a couple minute or so long clips from a noodling session I just happened to record a little bit of with this in mind. There are no layers or melody, it's just Brenso while I was trying to push it as hard as I can. No filters/FX, no EQ/compression in or out the rig. The carrier oscillator's pitch in all these was locked at 55 to keep an exact bead on the modulator; pitch changes such as sputtering sounds are from wacky FM combinations or moving only the modulator osc. Also of note, most of the timbre CVs were being slowly moved by LFOs from an Ochd in the background. It's real easy to get growling modulation in this thing that actually-cooperates and gives you usable results rather than intermittent noise choking things out like on DPO. :guinness:

I'd been using the Brenso for various things but today was trying to determine if I should sell my DPO or not and so spent a few hours A/B'ing them. Conclusion - they're in theory structured similarly on the surface as complex oscs, but in reality sound totally different. Matching those two anywhere at all proved difficult. The Brenso is extremely polished and clean, and despite all that timbre shaping on tap is very hard to get into DPO's dirty scratchy qualities. The timbre shaping beyond the wavefolder on Brenso, in addition to being several times more complex, generally lends itself to more audibly-pleasing articulations when you crank the folder, than what you get on DPO where often touching something besides the folder immediately brings in those scratchy / broken-sounding qualities. I mean, DPO's dirt may have a lot of use to people still (myself included, I think I'm going to keep mine after all), and I do like its character a lot. Yet, it and Brenso are totally different beasts. There are a couple spots Brenso can do grit, but even then a "crunchy" setting on Brenso sounds like a hi-fi, spotless-clean version of the DPO's.






As an aside, this one gets into something I really didn't expect to hear, a couple seconds of a fuzzed guitar sounding tone. I don't recall the settings of how to do it but trust me, it's in there somewhere.




This and the following are there more to confirm yes it can do the sputtering / dying computer sounds. Not a surprise but it does them sounding strangely clean I must say, I have yet to thoroughly A/B it vs my Cs-L but I get the feeling Brenso will make the clean-sounding Cs-L seem dirty.


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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Kattefjaes » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:10 am

Hey nios, those are some nice squizzes of sound, thanks (the Soundcloud spammer bots clearly agree too). Since you're someone with the Brenso and the Cs-L in the same system, I'd be interested in some off-the-top-of-your-head pros and cons of the two. I've been considering a Cs-L for a while now, so I can have some richer and weirder tones without tying up most of my simpler modules getting there.

There are a lot of interesting complex osc choices now. I'd narrowed it down to the Cs-L or the Rossum Trident, and the Cs-L felt like it was edging in front- mostly due to the differences in the two halves (different cores, soft vs hard sync etc.) and the helpfully placed folders. I've been peeking at videos, Cs-L seems to sound nice and has a clean and logical layout too. Boxes generally ticked. Then the Brenso came out. It appears to be another deep and elegant option, plenty of routing, modulation and folding options and no apparent menu diving.

While honestly, I suspect any of the Trident, Cs-L and Brenso would be fun as hell, I feel like I can't justify more than one right now. If you were me, what would your thoughts be?
Last edited by Kattefjaes on Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by autopoiesis » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:03 am

it's important to remember that none of these other analog complex oscillators in the 259 tradition have a through-zero implementation of their linear FM. only Brenso. and this makes a world of difference.

correct me if I've missed another that does.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Kattefjaes » Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:41 am

Good point. I wonder how much I care about through-zero? I'm a super-conservative user of FM at present (the linear mode on the Dixie II+ usually keeps me happy). Morever, how much would I care about it if I had a complex OSC that didn't, now the Brenso is out...

I suspect that if the base module sans through zero was much more compelling, it'd be possibly to overlook that without getting all GASsy. If they were in a similar ballpark joysplosion-wise, OTOH.... So, nios, you have both, what say you?

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by nios » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:00 am

Kattefjaes wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:10 am
Since you're someone with the Brenso and the Cs-L in the same system, I'd be interested in some off-the-top-of-your-head pros and cons of the two.
Like I said I have yet to really thoroughly compare them because my intent was that Cs-L wasn't going anywhere, but now I'm not so sure it in fact isn't the redundant one next to Brenso. Still though what I know so far from a brief A/B/C today but also just what immediately sticks out, before a thorough analysis -

a.) The overall maximum throw/depth/degree of folding on Cs-L's folder exceeds the other two's, by a fair degree. What audibly sounds like maybe the 80-90% point timbre wise on Cs-L, is where Brenso's folder just stops and Cs-L goes on to do a few extra folds. Same goes for DPO; of which by the way, Brenso's folder does go "ahead" of DPO's, but Cs-L goes significantly more extreme than the other two.

b.) However, Cs-L's overall timbre options are fewer despite the excellent folder. You need to use a mod route trick to get both folders into one Final and that's going to be off the sine of one of the oscs; it will not want to serially route both the folders into one final so if you thought it's natively a double-folder, well it isn't. Also, the symmetry control on Cs-L, which is annoyingly an important control on a dinky tall pot, often goes between loud mess and quiet spots where it does nothing, and also is pretty scratchy/noisy in use too. On the other hand when you tweak timbre knobs on Brenso it's generally subtle-but-definitely-present and continuous results without unpleasant loud/noisy spots, and as you move all of them around you gradually can make surprisingly large changes to the sound off what looked like some simplistic shapers.

Also the "feel" of the modules favors Brenso. I actually really dislike the folders on Cs-L being on those LED faders, they're really hard to dial in because those big knobs placed near their path block your fingers from getting a good angle/grip, so working the folder feels much jumpier/jagged in movement, whereas the big knobs on Brenso give you butter smooth subtle movements. Cs-L has actual knobs for its fine tune which feels so nice, it was effortless to tune it to the others - however if I had to pick between putting big knobs on only waveshaping controls or tuning, I'd have gone with waveshapers. Or maybe the idea was Cs-L is more focused on the FM routing hence favoring beefy fine tuners.

FM-wise, discounting the obvious TZFM advantage, I believe(?) Brenso's better but would have to double-check all possible routings in Cs-L to be sure. So that leaves the really fine-detail mapping between their intrinsic sonic fingerprints, which, will take time. For example today I spent a half hour attempting to find a spot / combo on Brenso's timbre section that sounded 100% identical to the maximum fold setting on DPO. I could get pretty close, probably 95%, but objectively never hit it dead-on, and I suspect it just doesn't exist between the two (may be the vactrols on DPO). But eventually, I will get Brenso and Cs-L compared.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Kattefjaes » Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:23 am

I didn't pick up the routing peculiarity with the folders on the Cs-L, that's a bit of a bummer.

How is the "pingable wavefolder" behaviour on the Brenso? Can it be used to get relatively long decay plucky sounds?

Yeah, I know- sorry for all the questions. Your answer above is full of useful points though, and exactly the sort of thing I was after - much appreciated. The bit about smoother transitions without sudden pits of unexpected shoutyness speaks to me. I hate things where there are unexpected traps when you're trying to sweep/modulate a control- especially if it's fiddly/overly twitchy.

Being painfully honest with yourself, how much do you think you're still suffering new toy syndrome, out of interest? Is is it still box fresh in the rack, or have you got to the stage of just reaching for it to use in patches? I know the hype cycle is a powerful aphrodisiac, after all- and it'd be one of the more expensive modules in my rack.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Hovercraft » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:43 pm

Cs-L has some nice features and routings that are absent on the Brenso. The two VCA/Wavefolders--are a useful feature, aside from the fact they aren't normalled in serial. The power is having two independent outputs, rather than a degree of wavefolding that would reduce the signal to pure noise--which the Cs-L can already handle--haha. I think the Cs-L's asymmetry is more interesting than the same control on the Brenso--which is subtle in comparison. Cs-L also has two independent and different PWM outputs, and the ring modulator/AM circuit can accept two external inputs. Cs-L is different, but capable of an equal range of timbral variation as the Brenso, in my experience so far.

Both modules are great, and most of the differences comes down to the sound palette of each module. I do love the ping circuit on the Brenso, you can hit it with a gate, and get an individual note or percussive hit, along with control over the decay of the envelope. Brenso is beautiful for fine detail sculpting of timbres, and Cs-L is about raw power and sending out multiple complex waveforms to different parts of a patch. I think they mostly complement each other.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by studioutopia » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:38 pm

Just received my Brenso today. Compared to Cš-L - it's a whole different beast. Both are capable of all-out noise/broken computer/abrasive inharmonic jibberish - if that's what is needed. For more melodic tones....So far, I am finding Brenso is much brighter/focused/controlled, where the Cš-L has a warmer, rounder, darker sound. Where Brenso feels more articulate, Cš-L is "fatter".
I am finding way more sweet spots in the FM on Brenso. Shaping is much more interesting too.
Putting slow sines and smooth random into "all the holes" on Brenso is gorgeous. Sequenced it is very "vocal".
These two oscillators are permanently in my rig... they definitely compliment each other!!!
(....with Piston Honda MkIII sitting there going, "Whatever. I'm a dual oscillator with thru-zero. And I have wavetables!"... he will never understand.)
Here is a sketch with USTA and Brenso at the core.

Next is to work on a Complex Oscillator Duel - The Scot vs. the Italian!

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by studioutopia » Tue Jul 28, 2020 10:26 pm

Some comparative tests...

This is an experiment with Cš-L and BRENSO.
I have tried to set up both oscillators the same:
I have tuned the modulators slightly higher than the carriers to create a metallic bell tone. In each test, I first do a demo running a wavefolder - on the Cš-L it's the lower/carrier wavefolder. This is the more abrasive sounds. Then I noodle around on each oscillator while adjusting the amount of envelope driving the CV/Index of Linear FM modulation from Modulator to Carrier. The FM is driven along with the VCAs by a single Falistri envelope.
The first test is on the Cš-L, followed by Brenso at 0:26. At 1:04, I return to Cš-L to further demonstrate the detuning effect at higher FM levels - it is my understanding that this effect is caused by the lack of through-zero modulation capability on the Cš-L. Notice that around 0:40, I open up the FM full on Brenso - it does not go out of tune.
While both oscillators have a lot of timbres at your disposal, and this demonstration is only but one example - I think you will agree that the Cš-L is warmer and coloured - where Brenso is very transparent, articulated and defined.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Polyterative » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:27 am

Excellent demos, as a current DPO user brenso feels like it's hifi modern son. Some parts feel like perfect skrillex dubstep wobble material. Even more willing to get one
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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Kattefjaes » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:53 am

Oof, you bastards are not helping. The Brenso sounds really nice, and the comments make it sound like more of a scalpel than a machete if you want it to be, which also appeals.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by studioutopia » Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am

Kattefjaes wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:53 am
Oof, you bastards are not helping. The Brenso sounds really nice, and the comments make it sound like more of a scalpel than a machete if you want it to be, which also appeals.
It is definitely a scalpel ... that transforms into a machete, battle axe, or a lightsabre any time you desire.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Kattefjaes » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:04 pm

studioutopia wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:57 am

It is definitely a scalpel ... that transforms into a machete, battle axe, or a lightsabre any time you desire.
Not. Helping. :hihi:

I feel like having spent days poring over complex oscillators, that's still the one that appeals the most, with the Trident and the Cs-L as runners up (I would cheerfully accept donations of either, just sayin'). Now I just need to wait for them to actually be in stock again- I missed the last one Juno had due to wanting to ask more questions.

It looks like a really nice way to achieve more than I'm currently doing with some pretty tangled patches- they're fun as hell, but dropping a complex osc in will free those modules up for more shenanighans.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by studioutopia » Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:33 pm

So here are my two analog Complex Oscillators working together...
USTA sequencing, 808 and 909 beats on Ableton Live/Push 2.
Bass: Cš-L VCO2 with linear FM from VCO1 and wavefolding, Quadigy ADSR envelopes on VCA and wavefolder. Mutable Ripples with Pamela for clocked cutoff modulation.
Lead: Brenso Green VCO saw wave, Yellow VCO final output with manual modulation of shapers, wavefolder; manual adjustment of linear and exponential FM between both VCOs, envelope from Falistri, VCA and Mix in stereo on CGM group channel.
FX from Lexicon and the Eventides.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by vilovisp » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:26 am

Hey people all the love from Argentina . Sadly i realized my brenso come with a corner of the panel bent and one of the jumpers in the back , the one for the fm index bent !!!

im little sad but looks like is working fine, there is any way i can double check all is ok?

a pity but i love it , even though of the state is my favourite vco and i just have it for 20 minutes

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Wubz » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:32 am

Hey, How did you get on comparing the Brenso to the Cs'L and the Omega Phi? I have same oscillators and was thinking iof dumping onee for Brenso.
nrg242 wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:42 pm
i too am awaiting my brenso from Juno to compare to CS-L and the CS-8 Omega Phi. oddly enough, Juno seemed to fire sale them on the day of release at 20% off. i wonder if thats because they noticed the damage upon their receipt of shipment. picked mine up for $546. now, it's also been lost in customs land (i presume for almost 2 weeks) so maybe i didn't get a deal after all. serves me right for being cheap on the shipping.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Wubz » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:48 pm

Hey,
I have 2x gen3's and a Cs-L. One of which must go for the Brenso. Have you kept your Gen 3s?
beepnsleep wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:52 pm
I was wondering about that as well. and what is the small header below the power connection for?

got mine from control today, luckily nothing was bent. it looks flawless. apologies for the cable coming through the pic, it was the best pic I got of a dozen from inside my case. sounds great so far, but it'll take some time to get a feel for it. It doesn't have the same TZ artifacts/glitching I get from my Gen 3.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by beepnsleep » Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:28 pm

I still have my Gen 3, though I use it much less now that I hve Brenso

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by closedLoop » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:37 pm

beepnsleep wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 3:28 pm
I still have my Gen 3, though I use it much less now that I hve Brenso
Interesting. I really like Gen3, but I find the sound edgy and really hard to tame, and it really needs 2 modulators for its 'sound' to really come out. I've been looking hard at Brenso, knowing the build and design quality of everything that Frap Tools makes.

I wish someone would do a deep dive on Brenso VS Generate-3 VS Cs-L VS Rubicon. I don't want to know which is 'best', I just want to know what each one is good at.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Kattefjaes » Mon Aug 24, 2020 4:44 pm

Still gutted that the day I decided that yes, this was the oscillator for me, they were in stock- and by the time I'd had lunch, they seemed to be sold out everywhere reasonable in Europe- Including Juno who I still had open in a tab 8-)

Looking forward to seeing them available again.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by vilovisp » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:51 pm

First week using brenso , and is just amazing!! , the waveshaper/folder is nut , im really in love , i also have a cs-l and i kind of like brenso more , precise and warm but also can be noisy and experimental, pinging the wavefolder really sound ace for percussive sounds , im sold for life , finally i got what I was looking for .

And it tracks very very good !!!

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by Gringo Starr » Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:58 pm

vilovisp wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:51 pm
First week using brenso , and is just amazing!! , the waveshaper/folder is nut , im really in love , i also have a cs-l and i kind of like brenso more , precise and warm but also can be noisy and experimental, pinging the wavefolder really sound ace for percussive sounds , im sold for life , finally i got what I was looking for .

And it tracks very very good !!!
Great to hear such awesome feedback. Do you by chance have any experience with the Furthrrr Generator? These two have become a sort of a juggling match for me as far as which one I want to get. I keep going back and forth.
Weed only gives you the illusion that it’s enhancing your creativity.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by ATW » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:10 pm

Gringo Starr wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:58 pm
vilovisp wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 7:51 pm
First week using brenso , and is just amazing!! , the waveshaper/folder is nut , im really in love , i also have a cs-l and i kind of like brenso more , precise and warm but also can be noisy and experimental, pinging the wavefolder really sound ace for percussive sounds , im sold for life , finally i got what I was looking for .

And it tracks very very good !!!
Great to hear such awesome feedback. Do you by chance have any experience with the Furthrrr Generator? These two have become a sort of a juggling match for me as far as which one I want to get. I keep going back and forth.
That’s where I am, as well. FG with the strong zero core…or Brenso. Tipping toward Italy though.

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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by studioutopia » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:15 am

Here is the new album I just put out.
Brenso is pretty much front and centre on every track. For the scope of what I was doing for the album - I barely scratch the surface of what Brenso can do. It has become my main instrument. My other oscillators on there - Cš-L, Piston Honda MkIII, Tš-L, Pittsburgh primary - and washes of textures from arbhar, Lúbadh and my Prophet Rev2 - but I'm sure you will agree, Brenso really stands out.


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Re: Frap Tools Brenso

Post by vilovisp » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:20 am

Hi too all my heart is broken , my brenso failed brutally 3 days after it arrived , dont know if it was like these or i just i do not notice .

Lfo mode is not working and when using as normal fm modulation signal get muted completly , what a pity i was having a blast with it !!! pain is real!!! so sad people u can imagine , returns are not so easy having in mind im from Argentina and corona virus dont help things get done.Wish me luck , any other brenso user had any problems?

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